Soxpranos

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) That's more AB's in the #2 hole than Gooch had coming into 2005

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 05:33 PM) I dont think you have ever said a single positive thing about him.. I mean, you don't even think he's a good defensive player. You are likely the only one I have ever talked with that thought that. Rowand is not the best CF in the game, but he's in the second group of good CF's, as someone said earlier in this thread. If A-Row's offense would return to 2004, and his defense maintained its high level, he would be one of, if not the, best CF's in the game. And I didn't think that Iguchi would perform like he did in the #2 spot. I thought he might struggle, but he proved me wrong. Now that he already has a years of experience in the MLB and in the #2 spot specifically, I think he can improve upon last year's success. Yes , hes in the 2nd tier of defenders. I dont argue with that, he's very solid. But fo the offensive side, maybe this is what it is. See above post, maybe we dont see another season like 2004 on the offensive side, and if we keep him fine with me. We win with him or without him.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 05:29 PM) In my mind, thats the equivalent of trading Rowand for a 7th starter. I don't see the point to trade a quality player for people who would step up if a key player got hurt. Yes, if Pods got hurt, we could then have Pierre lead off, but I wouldn't really complain if Ozuna led off and we still had Rowand in center. And I do trust Ozzie and Kenny to an extent. I wasn't too thrilled about the Podsednik trade last year, and they proved me wrong rather quickly, but I think there is a fine balance to maintain with a lineup's power and speed. I think that if you trade too many better offensive players for those who get 50 steals, your team will not be successful. Last year, it looked like Kenny and Ozzie had the right balance, and changing it now, after it proved to be quite successful, worries me the most. The sad think about it, is that Aaron is not a good offensive player. Uribe I believe had more rbi than him or was tied, batting 9th. Have you ever thought that Aarons 23 homer season was a fluke and this is the Aaron that he will always be, not the other way around? I will be glad to see this come to a resolution soon, to see what the Sox intend on actually doing.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 05:24 PM) I wasn't talking about slugging percentage, I was talking about OPS, which is a players on base percentage plus slugging percentage. A good offensive player has a high OPS, because they can both get on base and hit for some sort of power. Pierre and Pods would be a "1-2 punch" that opponents could laugh at. Neither can hit lefties, and neither are that talented with the bat. If they do get on, then yes, they can run, but they can also get thrown out a hell of a lot, which is not a good thing to have happen when the meat of your order is coming up. Pierre doesn't even hit second in the order. How do we know how he will react to it? Will he like having to sacrifice AB's for the good of the team? These are things we don't know, and increase the risk value in trading for a pricey and crap defensive player. And I'm not comparing Iguchi and Rowand. You obviously don't read my posts before posting. I have stated many times in the past that if we trade Rowand, I'd be fine with it, as long as it adds a big bat. Does Pierre count as a big bat in your opinion? If so, see a doctor. Also, did a guy with a Rowand jersey touch you or something when you were younger? Why do you have so much hate for him? What made u think Iguchi would preform like he did here, he never batted 2nd in Japan. Good players respond to whatever situation they are put in, thats why Aaron is not great or will ever be. Dont hate Aaron, its just guys like you that think hes the best CF in the game which is false. Im not the one with the Aaron pictures all over my signature, im sure you would want him to touch you?

Thank God we have a guy named Ozzie as the manager that wants Pierre at the 2 hole rather than a guy named felix that is just in love with Rowand.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) If you desperatly needed someone on your lineup to hit 25+ homeruns, then yes, it would make sense to put him further down in the order. However, we don't need that. Iguchi had a great year last year out of the #2 spot, and I would rather that than add another Scott Podsednik along with a small power increase from Gooch. Let me ask you this. Would you pay Scott Podsednik whatever Pierre's contract is? What was all the talk about slugging percentage with Aaron? Iguchi will be a better hitter than Aaron is deeper in the line up. Pierre behind Pods will no doubt be a deadly 1-2 punch. No to metion having Iguchi batting 6th , a guy with pop and that can actually bent when needed to. Not a tough choice there. All specualtion till it happends, if it ever happends. Its not a opinion, just a fact that Iguchi is a better offensive threat than Rowand.

Maybe we sign Ishi from Japan, has a good arm and is 28.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 10:01 AM) Like steals? Rowand is a more successful stealer, does that count? Also, tell me what a good offensive player does, since you obviously don't think having a higher slugging + on base percentage makes up a good one. Pierre is a better leadoff hitter, but is not the better offensive player. What about total steals? Get of your fanatsy Rowand Island and come to reality. Pierr by far has more speed, can bunt for hits, walk, does not strike out as much as Rowand and plays a team ball style of game. Im sure if Pierre batted higher in the order his numbers like slugging percentage would be more. Try Runs scored also. Iguchi in Rowands spot of the line up , is a super upgrade. Talking about the whole picture, not just wonder boy. Oh , did I mention Pierre can bunt for hits as well as sacrafice.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 07:33 AM) OPS, which shows how productive a player is by merely adding their slugging percentage and on-base percentage. Pierre has, IIRC, a career .730, while Rowand's crap year last year was .736. Slugging? Pierre is not a slugger, either is Rownad who was suppose to be one. Try putting all the offensive numbers down like steals, stike out ratio and dont forget moving guys over on bunts something you seen in game 4 of the world series Aaron does verry well.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:34 AM) I lied... just hoping soxpranos would eventually stop. I just had some caffeine, I will still be here qwerty...

Wont Aaron demand a higher salary later since he's a stellar defender? Overall , I take Pierre, he brings more to the plate and his speed kills on defense and offense. Guys dont get me wrong, I root for Aaron as hard as anyone, but to say he is the top CF in the game is just not correct. Pierre makes the Sox better than with Rowand. I want our team to keep winning championships , bottom line.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:25 AM) I think Rowand is a better defender than Pierre too. But to say that Pierre is on the downside of his career and Rowand is on the upswing of his is downright ludicrous. Pierre is 15 days older than Rowand. K, defender? What about all around CF, who is better? They do bat and do fundementals in baseball as well.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:21 AM) Aaron Rowand's birthdate: August 29, 1977 Juan Pierre's birthdate: August 14, 1977 No but he's great . :puke :puke

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:20 AM) I'm really not attatched at all to Aaron, I've been advocating trading AR if necessary to bring in a big bat. However, thinking he's not a great defender is ridiculous. He's the greatest, Clemente is turning in his grave. Clemente is great, Aaron is nowhere near great.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:15 AM) LOL at the gold glove comments. Logan, Taveras, and Damon aren't even close to Aaron. Start thinking of changing your name to Pierre 44, thats funny. You can use Brian Anderson also, just a thought.

QUOTE(Soxpranos @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:06 AM) Good point, then Pierre is better than Rowand is what your saying? Im sure our Scouts , G.M. and manager know what there doing, shopping Roberto Clemente II here fellas. I trust there judgement better than the Aaron Rowands fan club. If he is so good, why even bring him up as trade. reality check.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:05 AM) Please stop comparing outfielders defensive abilities by stating the amount of assists they have. Manny Ramierez had the most outfield assists in the MLB. Good point, then Pierre is better than Rowand is what your saying?

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 07:34 PM) YES! Grounders to 2B win Championships. Remember when Pods hit that game winner right at Biggio? Oh and that routine 3-hopper that Blum tapped to Everett. I'll cherish those memories forever. might wanna cherish the one in game 4 when Sox lead off with double, and Aaron bunts on his own straight to the dug out, with nobody out. Ozie seemed very pleased after that brutal AB.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 11:50 PM) Name 6 better defensive cf's then Aaron? And Cameron and Rowand are very similar in the OF. Cameron has 3 gold gloves Aaron has 0 , the comparison ends there. Hunter, Cameron, Wells, Damon, A. Jones, Sizemore , Logan even Rookie W. Taverz had 10 assist to Rowands 3? Not exactlly in that order , thats for defense.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) Rowand's crappy offensive season last year was better than Pierre's career numbers, but if you really think Pierre is better, thats ok. What numbers you looking at?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) Lol, Rowand's arm wasn't accurate, but for a long time he had a "plus" arm when he was down in the minors and arm strenght wise his arm is still above average in CF. Oh and he is easily one of the 6 best CF'ers in the game. Ask anyone in baseball and they'll tell you that and yes, I do know people in the baseball world. Im sure they will tell you that they would have Pierre at CF as a whole than Rowand. Cause offense does play a role in baseball.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) There are 2 centerfielders that are head and shoulders above everyone else in Jones and Hunter and then Aaron is in the next group with Cameron, Kotsay, Wells, and maybe a few others I'm not thinking of right now. Im sorry but Aaron is no where close to Cameron, Adruw Jones is much better than hima nd Ill take Wells 13 assists and no errors above Aaron.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 03:22 PM) We get your hatred of Rowand. Just ask scouts about Rowands defense. They'll tell you he's one of the best in the biz. Scouts say he his arm doesnt exist? Who cant make a deep catch playing 380 plus feet back?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 03:22 PM) We get your hatred of Rowand. Just ask scouts about Rowands defense. They'll tell you he's one of the best in the biz. Not hatred, hes not even one of the top 6 Cf's. I just dont sweat his jock. Rowand is good, but far from great as you make him out to be.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 09:19 AM) Pierre is not a perfect player by any means, he has flaws, but taking away our personal likes/dislikes and biases, there's a good chance they'll try to get this guy. Guillen came out and said he wanted more speed at the top of the lineup and presumably he wants a good hitter up there as well. He knows Pierre from Florida and the White Sox sure appear to be shopping Marte. I think this rumor has validity. And Rowand is? Rowand has much more flaws than Pierre. Like No offense, strikes out 2 times as much as Pierre, cant make the routinecatch on bloops over 2nd base that have fallen for (last time I counted over 50 hits) Hits. No threat on the Pads when he actually gets on. Cant bunt for crap, just that reason alone is worth trading Rowand. How many times he couldnt get a simple bunt down is just ridiculous.