Felix

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 30, 2008 -> 10:59 PM) But trading Konerko or Fields or Poreda for Figgins is much worse than trading Broadway or Adam Russell. The cost is simply too high for Figgins, and he's a horrible defensive player. KW said younger/more athletic/better defense, not worse, older and injury-prone. That's why I doubt he touches Hudson or Roberts either. Again, I never advocated a trade for Figgins. The price for him is way too high, and he's incredibly overrated by a number of people. The only plus about Taveras is the likely asking price for him, which doesn't appear to be much of anything. However, acquiring him likely means he'd be leading off for the team, which would reduce the men on base for the middle of the order.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 30, 2008 -> 10:42 PM) Willie Harris, 31 next year, is a guy who over the last two years established himself as a good bench player in the Major Leagues. Willy Taveras, 27 next year, did just fine for himself as a starter except for the 2008 season. Why people cannot see the value of a .280-.320 batting average, .330-.360 OBP, 30-60+ steals, and strong defense in CF is beyond me. They like slugging and apparently s***ty contact and care nothing for speed. Whatever. I don't see how Taveras's 2005 or 2006 seasons were 'just fine' for a starter and leadoff man. The only 'just fine' season he had was in 2007, when he had a .371 BABIP in slightly more than half of a season (meaning he was incredibly lucky). And no, you don't seem to understand the point here. It's not that speed is a bad thing, and it's not that slugging is important. However, when you don't get on base at a high rate and you don't slug the ball at all, you simply aren't being productive. I don't care how fast you are, it doesn't matter if you don't get on base which is the case with Taveras. On-base percentage is one of the most important stats in baseball, and the fact that Taveras doesn't walk is a major blow against him. If he were to show that he can consistently get on-base, he would be a fine option, but this just isn't the case.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 30, 2008 -> 10:24 PM) Ummmm, no...Willie Harris has never shown any type of propensity or consistent capability of stealing bases...ever. A more relevant comparison would be Chone Figgins and Harris. Why does everyone love Figgins and hate Taveras? Because he can play a lot of positions? Well, geez, he can't play any of them very well. He's getting older and losing some of his burst...and yet, some are still willing to trade Paul Konerko for him. I dislike both Figgins and Taveras, if it is any consolation to you. This isn't to say that Figgins is as bad as Taveras though, as he's a FAR superior player. Same skill set, but he at least gets on base at good rate (.367 OBP last year, .393 in 2007 and .356 career) as well as showing some sort of slugging (1 XBH per 16 AB compared to Taveras's 1 per 25 AB). I mean, seriously. Taveras averages 24 extra-base hits a year, while Figgins is at 40. Neither are the answer for the leadoff spot, but Figgins would at least be a serviceable leadoff man, while Taveras should never be leading off.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2008 -> 10:11 AM) KHP , from 2005-2008 Taveras had a .000 BA on 3-0 counts in 19 AB's probably not because he was swinging and making outs on that count but I think its more like he had no batting avg because he never swung at 3-0 pitches . So any statistical analysis probably shouldn't include 3-0 batting average unless its .000 because he was actually 0 for 19 by making contact and making outs on 3-0 pitches which I think is highly unlikely. It also shouldn't be used because its 19 AB, which is nowhere near a large enough sample size for a real statistical analysis. Oh, and just so the record shows it, when Taveras had the best 'year' (if you call 97 games a year, which is most certainly isn't), he had a .371 BABIP and was ridiculously lucky. Then last year, when his BABIP was back around the league average (.298), he was back to being an abysmal offensive player. Now, this could be because the fans decided to start booing him and throwing batteries at him every time he tried bunting or stealing a base in 2008 as opposed to 2007, but I'd prefer to think of this as a player who was lucky falling back to the norm. Unfortunately, the result was Taveras being one of the worst outfielders in the league with the bat. Again, I stress that there is no way the Sox should be seriously considering him for the leadoff spot. He simply isn't good enough and to give a player of his caliber the most AB on the team would be a tremendous mistake.

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 30, 2008 -> 08:12 AM) I would take him and bat him 8th or 9th. I don't think his OBP is good enough for leadoff but I could see him starting rallies at the bottom of the order. You can say that, but the problem is that if KW were to trade for him, there is almost no way he wouldn't be the leadoff man thanks to Ozzie's love for Taveras's skill set. He would be a fine player (still bad, but at least he'd be getting the least AB on the team and wouldn't be giving outs away at the top of the order with stupid bunt attempts) if he were batting 9th for the entirety of the year, but that just simply isn't going to happen.

QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 03:02 PM) Gimme a f***ing break The only way this team scores now is either hit a HR or string together hits.. Taveras DOES change that.. no matter how many posts you make taking shots at people who like Taveras and think he would be good for our team.. Its not even Taveras, its the speed.. It could be any player, but Taveras looks like the most likely scenario to acquire.. Taveras doesn't make Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, Carlos Quentin, or Paul Konerko any less likely to hit home runs.

QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 02:36 PM) It really doesn't matter what you think about Wily T.. if we get him, and he hits .280+ and steals 60+ bases hes gonna help this team regardless of your OPS love affair He stole 60+ bases once in his career, and it was in the year where he was as bad offensively as humanly possible in Coors Field. He's also only hit above .280 in a full season once. Neither of these things are sure things as you seem to think, and no, even if he hits .280/.330/.330 as the leadoff man he isn't helping the team. He's hurting it by having the most at-bats on the team despite being a below average offensive player.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 02:32 PM) No, I think you're missing the real point. It's about the fans. This clearly is the problem. SERESLY. I simply don't understand why everyone is so fascinated with the bunt. It's a bad play designed to give outs to the opposing team. Isn't the point of offense to not get out? It's even worse and more idiotic when you're doing it in front of a 3/4/5/6 that hits nearly 130 home runs per year. With the power that this team has, and will continue to have since the majority of the middle of the order will be back, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest the team should get a leadoff man that doesn't get on-base and bunts as much as Taveras (or someone similar) does.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 02:24 PM) Taveras could not hit last year due to his leg injury. Though he stole twice as many bases as his previous career (34) at a much better ratio. Hm... You just don't understand. He's got intangibles that your silly metrics and logic can't understand. Both teams he's ever been on have also been to the World Series, and he's got healing powers similar to Jesus. What's not to love?!

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:57 PM) BTW, Taveras in U.S. Cellular Field since 2005: 21 at-bats, .333 BA, .417 OBP, 1.036 OPS and 9 SBs to 0 CSs. Granted limited at-bats, but maybe he likes the Cell. Means nothing. Timo Perez has a career .350/.458/.550 in 20 AB in Miller Park. Should the Brewers go after him?

QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:18 PM) Do you just choose to ignore anything besides last season? No. He's a bad offensive player who has a career .668 OPS and 72 OPS+. Even when he had his "breakout season" in 2007, he had a 89 OPS+. He's not good. It's that simple.

Spencer Tollackson is as bad a color commentator as he was a college center.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:01 PM) He's also better in CF because he has been playing it longer, a better overall hitter (you can't deny his .280+ career batting average in the majors, something Owens probably can't do), faster on the basepaths and a better base stealer. Compaing Ownes to Taveras is silly. Taveras has proven to be a solid major leaguer player, a terrific one at points while Owens hasn't done squat. He had a slugging percentage below .300 in Coors Field last year. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't hit at all in Coors, you won't be able to hit anywhere.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 12:51 PM) .320 average two years ago and is a career .285 or so...what the hell is your definition of hitting? We need some speed on this team, station to station baseball should go the way of the Dodo Bird. You realize he had a slugging percentage below .300 despite playing in Coors Field last year, right? I think that says everything. Well, that and his 80 career extra base hits in nearly 2000 AB despite hitting in two very well known hitters parks. He's simply bad offensively. There is no reason the Sox should be seriously thinking of trading for him.

I don't understand why people here love bunts. Players that can bunt and can't actually hit aren't good players. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Tavares fits into this category.

QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Or, hes been in the league for 4 seasons and both teams hes played for have reached the World Series with him leading off If you are being serious, that is absolutely terrible logic. Hell, we won the World Series with Timo Perez. Clearly he's necessary for any team that wants to win anything. Or, even better, we won the World Series with Scott Podsednik leading off. That doesn't mean he's a good player or deserving of the starting CF job.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 27, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) Accept Dickerson has already shown that he can run with the big boys (although it was only 102 at bats). Seriesly??

The Gophers are simply not a very good team. Tonight confirmed that.

QUOTE (That funky motion @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:35 PM) He said a Spanish name as the other player( not reyes) but I cant remember his name. Fernando Martinez?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) Levine saying its Dye for Jackson. Don't know if its close. I thought the Nick Swisher deal was terrible, but if this potential deal were to happen, it'd be far, far worse.

I don't get this at all. Why would KW trade Dye, who is still very productive, for a pitcher that has only had an ERA below 5 once in his career and only a 1.36 K:BB ratio? Last year was the best season of his career by far, and he still only had a 4.42 ERA, 1.51 WHIP and 1.40 K:BB. He is at best an average starter (much closer to being a below average pitcher) and definitely shouldn't be the main focus of a Jermaine Dye deal.

He looks like he ate Alexei. I definitely like the move though. Even if he doesn't pan out, it's the type of move this organization should be making more of, low risk/high reward. QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 20, 2008 -> 05:27 PM) But as for Viciedo, he's got amazing power by all reports, and I think he could end up being the next Frank Thomas. That's a big statement, but I think he's got the talent to do so. Let's not get too excited here. He is, after all, 19 years old and as far as I know, hasn't played in the United States. To be comparing him to the best hitter of the 90's seems a bit excessive.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) What was Morneau's BABIP for September? Looked it up, .256. Would he just be unlucky like Swisher instead of overrated and sucks? You seem to make that an all important and telling stat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean Enjoy. I'm off to work.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2008 -> 02:47 PM) You didn't say Morneau was overrratee, ou said Morneau was the most overrated player in baseball. Period. You can try to spin your error anyway you want, but he's not. He's driven in 370 runs the last 3 seasons. There are a lot of players more overrated than a guy who puts 3 seasons like that together. Maybe he was just incredibly unlucky when he made outs. You know the argument you made for Swisher. I still have yet to see an argument that claims another player is more overrated than Morneau. I stand by that belief until I'm proven wrong. Your mention of RBIs hardly proves me wrong, but merely shows that you're using a poor stat to pad your argument. That's fine, but don't expect to convince me that way. You also apparently continue to hang on this 'unlucky' business, even though it isn't relevant at all. The argument that I made for Swisher is completely different than the one for Morneau based on one key component: statistically, Morneau was right where he should have been while Swisher was well below where he should have been. Feel free to continue to harp over it without actually looking at the numbers, but it's obviously pointless for me to talk about it since you simply don't accept it. If that's the case there is no point for you to continuously mention in. QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 19, 2008 -> 02:41 PM) 1. 17th in the AL in OPS, and doesn't play near the defense to make up for that fact in terms of an MVP race. 2. Was a distant 2nd in terms of being the MVP of his own team. There are plenty of other reasons he shouldn't have won, but those two alone are more than enough to show this obvious fact in my opinion. That didn't stop Morneau from winning it in 2006, when he was the third best player on his own team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2008 -> 12:01 PM) You called him the most overrated player in baseball. That wasn't enough, you emphasised it with Period. Your wrong. Maybe he was like your boy Swisher most of the season and just extremely unlucky down the stretch. The bottom line is he's a good player. Not nearly as overrated as you boy Nick. I don't know where you got the idea that Swisher was 'my boy', but I feel obligated to inform you that he isn't. I was incredibly disappointed in him last year. However, despite this disappointment, I feel that he's a good candidate to bounce back, especially given how amazingly unlucky he was last year (and no, Morneau was not unlucky last year; his .312 BABIP was above the league average but in line with where it should have been given his LD%). However, MVP voters (and fans) continuously tout Justin Morneau as an elite talent and one of the best players in baseball. Unfortunately, this isn't true. He's an above average player who happens to be lucky enough to be hitting behind the best contact hitter in baseball, but is not an elite talent alone. He finished the season 12th in VORP and 15th in OPS (American League rankings). He was tied for 18th in home runs with only 23 (which shouldn't matter, but is worth mentioning since his mythical power isn't really there), and only had a high number of RBI because of his major league high 400 AB with runners on (and league high 558 runners on). Morneau even ranked 10th in the AL in OBI% (other batted in, which is basically the percent of runners on that were driven in), slightly behind other MVP candidates like Carlos Quentin (9th) and Kevin Youkilis (8th). Interestingly enough, David DeJesus led the AL in this with 21% of runners on driven in. More importantly, Morneau completely disappeared down the stretch when his team needed him the most. He hit .267/.350/.481/.831 after the All-Star break when his team needed him the most. This includes his amazing .243/.298/.398/.696 line in September, which has already been mentioned by just about anyone arguing against him as a candidate. I'm not saying Morneau is a bad offensive player. He had a good season, and was above average. However, the majority of sports writers (and fans apparently) seem to think that he's one of the best offensive players in the league and easily the best player on his team. They are wrong (which Rob Neyer covers the case for Joe Mauer pretty well here). In that sense, Justin Morneau is overrated. Feel free to bash me and tell me that my apparent man-crush on Nick Swisher is just blinding me, but it doesn't change the fact that Morneau is not one of the elite offensive players in the league and should not have been in the top 5 for MVP voting this year or in 2006. If you want to prove me wrong, feel free, but it certainly shouldn't include anything about my opinion of Nick Swisher (which isn't really my opinion in the first place).