NorthSideSox72

In answer to the question... apparently, it went to Alexei Ramirez.

Holy (*^$(*^$#@ Glad to see we made a serious move, but... 4 years?! Any report on the $$$$?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 06:49 PM) 3 more names, unmentioned in the Mitchell Report, are noted in the Jason Grimsley affidavit, which has been unsealed. Pete Incaviglia, Geronimo Berroa, and Allen Watson. Even more interesting for Chicagoans, a fourth name was mentioned regarding a conversation about how to play baseball after amphetimines are banned... Sammy Sosa. And there is another affidavit to be released soon, with at least one other new name.

New Ribbies are good. Congratulations!

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:49 PM) Maybe. Maybe not. That leads to much legal wrangling! But I keep the title, as all Presidents do, for life. "Mr. President". Oooooh, it feels gooooooooooooooooood to be free of all my duties and responsibilities. It's also nice to know someone was counting down the days! Kind of hard to forget. The day that will live in infamy - December 7th. 1941, 2006, whatever. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) He was the greatest President Soxtalk ever had. And you are the greatest poster named Dick Allen that Soxtalk has ever had.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) Thank you, Mr. President. Actually, his 1 year term expired on 12/7.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) I actually think sometimes you are Jay Mariotti. This should be interesting.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) I do have a condo w/mortgage, and a 401K. First, I apologize for my snarky post - that was unnecessary. I just get agitated with this subject. Sorry about that. What I think some people here fail to understand is that while the Sox as a business is basically zero-sum, the player payroll is not. Its an investment account, not a checking account. You can't look at it as if it was just cash in and cash out, year in and year out. The duration of investments comes into play, the impact on not just team performance but also attendance draw, and a whole slew of other factors. Hopefully that is more clear.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) He's talking about the $75 million which is $15 million a year. People are assuming that's what he has to play with now, and he's saying it isn't. He's the guy that always says every dime that comes it goes out. I have no problem with the White Sox payroll, I do have a problem with the way KW spins it and then goes into the "if I did what the public wanted" garbage. He has an older team with a $108 million payroll that came pretty darn close to being the worst team in baseball last year. Its time he got off the high horse. Again, finance doesn't work the way you seem to see it. He both does, and does not, have that money to play with. What he has is license to plow back earnings into player personnel, but also to do so on a forward-looking basis. He can spend a lot on the right player if there is payoff in that. He doesn't just have some stack of money to blow. JR has always said that the Sox are a basically break-even operation, and that is still true. Therefore, yes there are limits to spending, but those limits can be stretched in return for later returns. That does NOT mean that money for future years can simply go out the door.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) He turned that franchise into a serious contender. He was bold. He deserves credit for taking huge risks. That's all I'm saying. Are you talking about KW? Sounds a lot like KW. Look at the Sox of the decades before 2001, and how often they were "contenders". A lot less often than under KW, in basically all cases.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:09 PM) So on one hand he was willing to strangle the team for years to get Hunter, but since he didn't accept, the contracts he's already doled out have strangled the team from adding payroll. Then he goes into the "fans want instant gratification and don't look at the big picture talk" when he traded a cheap young CF and 2 decent pitchers for what would be an expensive 5th starter in 2006. Once again, I ask which players did the fans clamour to have and complained about not getting which enable KW to bring back most of an aging 90 loss $108 million payroll team? No... he was willing to pay $15M a year for 4 or 5 years, not $18M a year for 5. This is what he was getting at - its easy to say "spend every dime" when you don't see what that does to the organization. Its counterproductive at some point - the only question is, where is that point?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071221/economy.html?.v=6 Which falls right in line with the early reports about Black Friday. Strong start. But there have been negative indications in December, and I think those will turn out to hold too. Total sales will be disappointing.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) The one thing we might have to hope for is that it's possible that between Quentin, Owens, Anderson, and Sweeney, we might still be able to assemble a young OF soon. But...everyone has to admit, there's 4 question marks behind those 4 guys. Quentin Injury, Owens OBP/Slug/Age, Anderson attitude/swing/injuries, Sweeney injuries/stubbornness/slugging. Beyond that, we do have a couple of young guys in the field, Richar and Fields, but again, both have question marks. Richar = Raw, and Fields = big power but needs to cut down on the k's. Beyond that though, we really don't have anyone to cover several key positions, including 1b, SS, and C if anyone goes down, and we don't have any depth to fill in at positions if any of those guys flop. We at least can say about the pitching staff that we do have that. I'll still say that if everything were to go right, we could be competitive this year. But just in case, I think McPherson is a good fit in that he may give us a backup guy who might have some power left in his bat and who could play 1b or DH if Big Jim gets hurt. And for this team it makes a lot more sense to gamble on Gio, Egbert, DLS, Floyd, Haeger, Broadway, Danks, Sisco, Contreras, and whoever else I'm forgetting as potentially filling those starting spots than it does to gamble on Prior. I think the chances of this team, as its stands now, being competitive for a playoff spot, are very, very long. If they manage to pull of something unexpected to upgrade CF, and/or they do something elsewhere that significantly improves the team... then maybe that 1 in 50 shot becomes 1 in 10 at best - if the improvements at a couple slots are strong enough. Without that, this team would need a miracle to get into the playoffs. Stranger things have happened though.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) Explain then. Do you own a home? Do you have a mortgage? Or have you ever invested in anything? If you did, you'd get it.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:59 PM) Who is he talking about that the fans wanted him to throw money at? Why would it have been OK to break the budget with Torii Hunter but not with Buerhle, Contreras, Dye,Konerko, Vazquez et al? Spin, spin, spin. I'm sick of spin. Its funny he's criticizing the fans for looking "at today only", but wouldn't that have been what he was doing with Hunter? Doesn't he always pop off about winning now? Did you just compare the contracts of Dye, Konerko and Vaz, all of which were very good deals, to the Hunter lottery winner? And then you say KW is spinning? That is his whole point. I wanted Hunter too, but at that contract, you essentially strangle the organization financially for years. And whether people want to acknowledge it or not, that $75M wasn't some giant stack of cash sitting in a corner with Hunter's jersey on top. Its an investment with some expected return to help pay for itself.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) I wanted to make the point, counter to your assertions, that our depth isn't so much depth as a lot of bodies, so I understand why people would want someone else. I wasn't trying to insult or pick a fight...sorry if it came off that way. When it comes to starting pitching, this organization does in fact have some depth of talent. With Gio and Eggy behind the starting 5, and a few other strong starters in the system, that already puts the Sox above the median in terms of depth. But you are almost correct about... well, everything else in the system: position player talent and bullpen depth are pretty bad. Not completely bereft of anything of course, but close.

QUOTE(NUKE @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 09:34 AM) Consensus??? LOL!!!!!! Yeah right. http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...c8-3c63dc2d02cb 400 different climate scientists from a broad range of Universities and Governmental organizations on record as saying the current warming cycle the earth is going through is not man-made. You have to love how the chicken-little enviro-alarmist crowd, headed by AlGore can just declare a consensus and then scream LA LA LA LA!!!! when voices of dissent arise. Grasping at straws again I see. Thousands of climatologists and people actually in the field agree that there is some level of anthropomorphic climate change occurring... and this GOP hack manages to cobble together 400 scientists and newscasters who disagree. So yes, concensus is quite right. Concensus doesn't mean unanimous. I would certainly agree that there is plenty of discussion to be had about how MUCH humans are effecting it. But with such a huge majority of climate scientists in agreement of some level going on, it seems hard to believe that its all some fallacy. Maybe we ought to be focusing on what can be done about it.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) I dont think he ever was a VP candidate with Clinton. She wants a close friend or fellow clintonian. Basically, a "yes man". Yeah, he already is a Clintonian. But I wouldn't go so far as calling him a "yes man", and he may actually not like Hillary as much as Bill.

An Obama-Richardson ticket would be better than either party has offered since Reagan term 1. Not that that's saying a lot.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) He's going to endorse Clinton. Given his history, I'd guess you are probably right. I am just hoping otherwise. I think he'd be a perfect VP for Obama. Something else to consider... Edwards is the guy who, I think, is taking the most votes away from Obama. If Edwards drops out any time in January, and endorses either Clinton or Obama, its over - that person will have won the nomination.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) I ask you, on what grounds? That is: how do we, or you/DBAHO, come to that conclusion? Cuban numbers? WBC numbers? To elaborate a little: I don't know anything about the guy except he's never even been in minor league American games. I have only heard one thing about his performance and that was fathom hinting in some thread that he looked like crap with scouts or something. Tell me a little more about him, please. I am genuinely curious. (I hope that doesn't sound insulting; I'm asking with a complete open mind as I don't know anything about the guy. I am suspicious that someone can cross over immediately without minor league experience, but that's beside the point.) Like any player coming from an Int'l league, there is a leap of faith involved. If the Sox had a solid CF, I would want nothing to do with him. But, looking at the few numbers that are out there... combined with a few small snippets of opinions from various baseball rags... he has potential. That is the key of course - no one knows what a player will do in 2008, certainly not a guy who has never seen MILB or MLB action. I have followed a number of links from here and elsewhere, but I don't have them in front of me. See DBAHO's post I was responding to - a platoon with Owens, maybe some infield time too. This is a lower risk way of getting a look at him, and if fails, so be it. If not, you may have gotten a steal. Its a better solution, IMO, than just sticking with Owens. Now, the money is another issue. If he is looking for $10M per or something, then forget about it.

Oh, almost forgot, the part about them starting their own country... The U.S. still, in an international legal sense, controls those reservations and all the other land they are claiming as theirs. As far as I can tell, there are only three ways they could create a sovereign nation there... 1. Go to war with the U.S. 2. Convince the US government to grant them said nation and land 3. Find a court that would interperet and and enforce the treaties that would grant them this supposed status, and compel the US government to honor them Not. Gonna. Happen.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 02:04 PM) I am wondering if they are leaving the US, establishing a new country inside US soil, or what. QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) could they be deported or something? How would that work? The biggest paper I had to write in college (Poli Sci major) was about the American Indians, the Dawes Act and Micro-federalism. I'll try to be very brief... Most of those Lakota are probably living on federal reservations. On those reservations, the tribes basically have home rule, but under federal auspices. The state and local governments have near-zero say over anything. And the feds are, in theory, bound by treaties and laws including the Dawes act, that severely limit what they can do there. It happens to be that those AmerInds could become citizens, and are given birthright citizenship by nature of being born in the U.S. But, they really can have great autonomy within the reservation if they choose. Now, for those off the reservation, they are US citizens with normal domicile, but they do have special protections under the federal laws. They however ARE subject to the normal state and local laws like everyone else, in that instance. And many states and localities have special laws for certain tribes or blood level-groups as well, and hunting exceptions, and so on. So... deported? No, because deportation would represent the acknowledgement of some prior or other citizenship, which they do not have in any international sense. Leave the country? They COULD, I suppose, go way up north into that vast swath of what was the Northwest Territories in Canada, which now belongs to native peoples. It is, for many purposes, an independent nation. Not recognized by many other nations, but sufficiently home-ruled to stake a claim as such. Canada gave them huge bandwidth to do as they please up there. I suppose they could take a long walk.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) Ramirez certainly wouldn't be the worst option to have platooning at 2B/CF with Richar and Owens. Agree.

For the record, I was not saying I liked the O-Cab trade because JG is mediocre. On the contrary, JG's overall value as a starter in a given year is, I think, above average. But the reality is he had 1 year left on his deal, and it seemed to me (my opinion, not fact) that he was unlikely to re-sign with the Sox. When you look at him in that light, getting O-Cab plus $1.5M, even if its for a year plus the picks, was a good deal. If they can re-sign him, its a great deal.