NorthSideSox72

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) He's an all or nothing base clogger. DUH The Sox don't need anymore of those, they need more speedy/bunty/bearded/grindy guys. Its BeardFACE!!!!

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is... "We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said. Pun intended?

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:00 PM) On the Score, just heard KW saying we got Cabrera with the intent of signing him long-term. Makes sense. No one (Miranda, Silverio, others) would be ready before 2010 at the very earliest. As long as its not more than a 3 or 4 year-ish deal.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) Get over YOURSELF. If one doesn't like the way this team operates, they don't have to accept it. AT ALL. KW, for all the good he's done, makes mistakes. what's wrong with disagreeing with him? Also, isn't second-guessing part of sports. also, if one were to blindly believe everything a GM does, then we'd sure have a boring message board. And we don't want that, right? Disagreeing is good. I think he was just reacting to the hyperbole-loving cliff-jumpers.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:42 PM) In other news, my ticket rep broke the trade to me immediately after it happened. I like this kid. Did he mention a cash amount?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:05 PM) So -- if Kenny and the Sox choose to make it so, the deal will eventually be... Garland = Cash + one year of Cabrera + two draft picks. Is this where I get painted to be the white-and-black sunglasses wearing, 'everythings turning up roses!' optimist? Whatever. I didn't go apes*** last year for the Freddy G deal. Suddenly looks like a pretty well-balanced equation. But I think we're all hoping that the cash plus the salary savings will be used towards something of an upgrade elsewhere. If it is, the deal becomes: Garland = Cash + one year of Cabrera + two draft picks + part of salary towards an upgrade in CF/LF/2B/RP

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) Bourgeois won't be with the team, otherwise they would have put him on the 40. We were discussing that in the other thread - I don't think they have to yet. I think they are deciding, and honestly, I think it depends partially on what happens with Uribe.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) No one else seemed to be over-reacting, so I thought I should. I just think Cabrera is not what the Sox need -- Jon Garland + $7M(?) for a lifetime .320 OBP in second spot in the batting order seems like a terrible misuse of resources to me. I'm utterly unimpressed by Williams work over the last year -- not that he or anyone else would care. And of course Cabrera could hit over .300 again this season and I'll look more like an idiot than usual. But I just don't like Williams apparent plan. At all. Could you share with us his plan? Because I sure don't know what it is.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) Well. We have saved ourselves at least 6 million bucks next season. Take uribe out of the lockeroom and we've saved about 10 million bucks. That does sound nice - $10M to play with. Trade Uribe for, really, anything prospect-wise, and put Bourgeois/Getz/Ozuna in the utility INF role. Then go play with that $10M.

Quick question... What teams might want Uribe? And for what role?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) Then my question is; how did the Rangers sign Warner Madrigal yesterday as a minor league free agent from the Angels? According to the Dallas Morning News: I thought Bourgeois didn't actually BECOME a minor league free agent until December. Also, by the way, this move for Cabrera... could mean, maybe, Uribe is moved. All the more need for Bourgeois as a utility infielder.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) I'm disappointed that KW didn't wait until June or July, when Jon's price would be higher. It sounds like he doesn't have much confidence that the "knot" in his shoulder is going away any time soon and perhaps doesn't want to risk a DL stint early on that would send Jon's value into the crapper. I don't like the return value, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. This has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Kenny. I doubt it. But if the move stands alone, and if there isn't some cash coming back or something else, and if its not part of some multi-lateral move... then it looks like a disappointing trade. I'm now very curious to see what might come next.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:30 PM) I fail to see how this deal can possibly set up any other trades for the Sox. $ - assuming they get some back. If not, then, not. I guess Uribe is more expendable, especially with Bourgeois and Getz as possible backup IF's in the wings, though he's not exactly going to bring a lot.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) I think anyone that has followed KW's career knows he SUCKS at trading veteran players for prospects. He is definitely better the other way around, or dealing solely with pro level guys.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:23 PM) I actually like Orlando Cabrera, and if this means Uribe plays the utility role by either playing 2b against lefties or a defensive replacement at 3rd base, that's fine with me. Yeah, the addition of Cabrera isn't a bad thing. Its only a question of the amount of return for Garland.

Let's not even start the ridiculous conspiracy stuff. Garland is not Sirotka. The stories of his shoulder "knot" have been in the press all year - and they may have contribited to his value level. But that info isn't secret.

The team got better... but it sure seems like Garland is worth a lot more than O'Cabrera. There better be a lot of cash coming back.

Lucy in the AFL... Donny Lucy © Lucy started ice cold at the plate, going 1 for his first 17 at bats. He turned it up a litle late in the season, going 7 for his last 23 (.304), but even that was only good enough to get his average to .200. He also made a number of errors defensively. It appeared to not be a good AFL season for Donny, who will need to show he can hit at AAA Charlotte in 2008 if he wants a chance to play at the major league level. AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .200 13 40 2 8 1 0 0 3 9 2 16 1 0 .238 .225 .463

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) As far as I'm concerned, flip a coin. They both are/were very damn good with the glove. Which highlights something that is pretty much inevitable in 2008... after years of Ventura and Crede at 3B, us spoiled Sox fans are going to see what its like to not have a well above average defensive 3B. Not to say the Sox shouldn't trade Crede, because I think they probably need to... just to point out that it will be highly unlikely the Sox have that kind of defender at 3B for some time.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) You need to get off that he improved every month line. It isn't true. His August was horrendous. Owens sucks. Even with his .340 September making up about 33% of his season, his numbers for the year are worse than Pierre's. Pierre also makes a lot more contact which means runners can advance as well. That said, I wouldn't want Pierre for $9 million either, but if they wanted to make it $5 million, I'd take him if I didn't have to give up much. Well you're big on telling people not to nitpick stats... I took his number for the full year. 2008, if they both play full seasons, Pierre and Owens will probably be nearly identical players. So for anything more than a couple million (for Pierre's one value over Owens - proven time - against Owen's potential), I'll stay away from Pierre. That all said, just to reiterate, I don't think either one should be the #1 option.

Average gallon of gas now $3.09, just a penny below the peak of $3.10 (adjusted) from 1981, and 9 cents short of the all-time record of $3.18 set last May. Forecasters predict it will blow past that in the coming weeks.

QUOTE(max power @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) You can't know with any certainty that owens will do that. Its not a good enough reason to make the trade, but its a good enough reason to find a better option. Oh I'm all for a better option. And Juan Pierre ain't it. Owens managed a .324 OBP in his first year, a partial year. And that OBP went up every month. A .330+ OBP is probable, and I'd in fact bet he'll be significantly higher. But even if not, he is basically already comparable to Pierre, but costs less than a tenth as much. Is Pierre 10 times better than Owens? On the list of people I'd like to see in OF for the Sox (out of the players available or being discussed here), Owens is not in the Top 5, or even the Top 10. But he is well above Juan Pierre.

Why on earth would you pay $7.5M a year for Juan Pierre, when you can get the same OBP or better (Pierre is around .330 the last 3 seasons), same lack of power, same defense (maybe better) and same speed (and a better SB%) from Jerry Owens for $400k a year? Makes zero sense. If its Pierre they want, stick with Owens, and save the extra $7M to spend on some sort of useful player or differential. EDIT: Make that $8 to $10M a year, I just saw his contract details. Waste of money.

QUOTE(G&T @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) Link So if this sort of thing is against the rules of the MLBPA agreement... but if the player himself is actually OK with it, and so are the owners (the two parties protected by the agreement)... could Boras have any kind of grounds against the Yankees? Could he sue them? I wonder if the agent is considered a protectant of the agreement contract, or just an interested party. In any case, I love that Boras got left out.

Final AFL numbers for Sox players (I added the playoff game stats in for Sweeney and Getz). 6 of the 7 Sox players sent down there had what appear, statistically, to be good seasons... Ryan Sweeney (played multiple OF positions) Sweeney started off somewhat tepidly, and didn't muster any power numbers through most of the season. According to an article on the White Sox website though, he had been tasked with tweaking his hitting approach and swing. His first 20 hits were all singles. But then suddenly in his last few games, he turned on the power - in his last 3 games (including the championship game) he went 6-for-13 with 3 doubles and a HR. AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .295 24 88 15 26 3 0 1 14 32 10 18 5 1 .367 .364 .731 Chris Getz (2B) Chris makde good, consistent contact, got on base at a .360 clip, and walked twice as often as he struck out. There was very little in the way of power, but that's not something to be expected from him anyway. Getz should be in Charlotte next year, but its possible he may get a look as a backup infielder in Spring Training. AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .286 22 84 13 24 3 0 0 9 27 10 5 2 2 .362 .321 .683 Donny Lucy © Lucy started ice cold at the plate, going 1 for his first 17 at bats. He turned it up a litle late in the season, going 7 for his last 23 (.304), but even that was only good enough to get his average to .200. He also made a number of errors defensively. It appeared to not be a good AFL season for Donny, who will need to show he can hit at AAA Charlotte in 2008 if he wants a chance to play at the major league level. AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .200 13 40 2 8 1 0 0 3 9 2 16 1 0 .238 .225 .463 Jack Egbert (SP) Eggy had a couple of so-so outings in late October, but otherwise had a strong AFL season. In 6 starts he put together a 3.26 ERA and a 1.29 WHIP. W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG 1 0 3.26 6 6 0 0 0 19.1 14 7 7 0 11 17 1.35 .215 Dewon Day (RP) Dewon had a very good AFL season in relief, allowing just 2 ER in 13 innings pitched and a 1.00 WHIP, along with striking out 17 in just 13 innings. Day will likely be given a look for the 2008 bullpen in Spring Training, but otherwise would be in Charlotte. W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG 0 1 1.38 11 0 0 0 0 13.0 9 2 2 0 4 17 2.50 .196 Fernando Hernandez (RP) A pitcher not generally discussed in the same sentence as the word "prospect", Hernandez put together a very solid AFL season. He allowed no earned runs, had a miniscule 0.71 WHIP and struck out 11 in his 12.2 IP. After coming off very solid seasons at High A Winston Salem (2006 - 1.93 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 81 K in 65 IP) and Birmingham (2007 - 3.06 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 84 K in 85.1 IP), then doing this well with his invite to fall ball, one wonders if maybe the organization is starting to take Fernando seriously as a prospect. We'll see if he gets a ST invite. W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG 0 0 0.00 12 0 0 0 2 12.2 5 2 0 0 4 11 1.15 .114 Adam Russell (RP) Russell, who is said to be under consideration for 2008 bullpen duties with the big cub, had a solid AFL season, though he did struggle with his control a bit. In 16 IP, he gave up 16 hits and walked 8 for a 1.50 WHIP, which isn't great. But his 2.81 ERA and 16 K's were decent. He's likely to get a Spring Training invite. W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG 2 0 2.81 11 0 0 0 0 16.0 16 6 5 0 8 16 2.09 .262