southsider2k5

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) If Viciedo was going to be moved it should have happened by now. They did exactly the same thing with De Aza last year, people kept saying "Oh they'll trade him in January, oh they'll trade him in ST, he's a solid player and he doesn't fit where we are, oh they'll trade him at the end of ST" and then wham. No one wants a $4 million trash bill except us for some reason. It did happen with Fraisor.

Me thinks he speaks the truth.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 08:24 PM) I don't understand why anyone is surprised at this attendance disparity, lol. The north side of Chicago is a f***ing treat. It's a fantastic place to live and hang out. The South side of Chicago is the butt of all of America's murder jokes. The best argument anyone has to live in Bridgeport is "it's cheap" and "it's really not that bad anymore." People have way more money up north, they have way less money down south. There are cheaper, more effective, more convenient ways to follow the team. The Cell is a f***ing bore. There's nothing to see. Even if there was, they don't let you on the main concourse unless you have a ticket in the bottom bowl, lol. There's hardly even anything to buy in the team store. It's the worst team store of any major league sport I've ever seen. It's not 1965 where you had to either go to the game or listen on the radio. You can follow the action ten times better on the TV, and it's cheaper too! If you want people to spend $50 to come somewhere, you have to make that place worth $50 to go to. I am not surprised at all. Excuses are a part of the Sox fan culture. Cub fans go. Sox fans find excuses not to. The bottom line is that it allows the Cubs more resources. What surprises me is that Sox fans some how feel cheated because they don't have the resources that other teams have, and spend so much time thinking they are entitled to more.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 08:06 PM) Then couldn't you say the entire Midwest/Rust Belt (Kansas City, Cincy, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Minnesota, Milwaukee) was miserable because of their reaction to the baseball strike? It's not about just the White Sox. It's about that specific region of the country, and an economics history lesson. Of course, Detroit and Milwaukee were able to right their ships (the Cubs and Cardinals have always been insulated for unique reasons), and new stadiums were built in those other cities, but there's a tremendous amount of evidence that a lot of those franchises lost 25-35% of their fans for a decade or more. immediate reaction /= 30 years

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) No, Cubs fans go to games because it's a social event. It's a completely different situation. If you've spent any time in Bridgeport and Wrigleyville, it's very easy to see that. Also, Cubs attendance has declined substantially over the past few years. It is. It absolutely is. Cub fans go to games, when Sox fans won't. That is completely different. And Cubs attendance last year after something like six straight losing seasons is still higher than Sox attendance in every other year but 2 in their entire history. It even went up a tiny bit last year. And they are now reaping the benefits by getting to go after literally any free agent they want to go after.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 07:44 PM) All the last eight years has done is reinforce what we saw in the first 26 years of this ownership group: making it to the playoffs just once every eight years or so and coming away from those rare appearances with practically nothing to show for it is going to result in dwindling attendance. It's that simple, and should be expected. It's not because Sox fans are "miserable people" (not a nice thing to say, btw). There should be no expectation of unconditional love here, that the 2.9 million plus who walked through the turnstiles in '06 should have done so in 2011 and 2013, or else be dismissed as "bandwagon". They are consumers, and unfortunately when Sox product isn't up to snuff, they choose not to consume as much of it. Only one year in the 34 this ownership group has been running things worthy of mention. Just one! Only four playoff appearances in the other 33 years, with just four wins across all four of those appearances. THAT record is what is MISERABLE, not the fans. Sox fans can break their arms to pat themselves on the back and make excuses all they want. The only ones they hurt by staying home is themselves. Say what you want about Cub fans, but their franchise has had an open ability to do whatever they want to rebuild fully from the ground up, and they still have the money to go out and sign big named free agents after a MUCH longer drought than the Sox. Hard to say they are the stupid ones when their franchise gets that kind of flexibility. Out of curiosity, if fans that only show up when you win aren't bandwagon fans, what are? And yes, if there are fans out there using excuses from the 1980''s, to not go to games in 2014 or 2015, that is pretty much the definition of miserable.

Kuthrapali is pretty funny too.

I fell asleep.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 07:22 PM) But baseball isn't a business!!! It's uniquely protected by Congress, anti-trust laws, the national pastime, etc. Would communities all over the US build restaurants for McDonald's or Subway? Would they issue municipal bonds or increase hotel/tourism taxes? Much like any other business that gets tax breaks and TIF money, etc.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) Of course they do. If you're a business, you develop a disireable product, then expect it to sell well. If your product sucks, you don't expect people to buy it anyway, in hopes that the company might use the profits to develop a better product you can buy again later. This is exactly why the Cubs were able to do the rebuild they have done, and why we can't. We have to spend all of our revenues on major league players, because our fans don't have the patience to wait on prospects. Kenny Williams was the perfect GM for White Sox fans.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) the happy freaking losers..... the northside... I dare anyone to call a sox fan that crap., As a Sox fan I would kill for their fan base loyalty. It would give the franchise a lot more options for how to operate from year to year, instead of being forced to grasp at shorter straws in search of a short cut to try to revive their bandwagon fans interest. The Cubs are able to do their rebuild the way they did because of their fans. The same goes for the White Sox.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 06:35 PM) You didn't highlight the important part of my last quote. I said the laundry list I referred to "CONTRIBUTED to the alienation of the fan base". I don't think I could be any clearer that the primary reason for the fan base malaise is the lack of winning. But if you want to discount the cumulative effect of years and years of the poor management decisions made by this ownership group, you go right ahead. But I will steadfastly maintain the reason this large market team's attendance and tv ratings are in the toilet as we speak is a combination of all of these things, primary of which is the lack of winning. That list was probably relevant in 2004. But 2005 happened. 3 million people showed up in 2006. All of those thoughts about the Sox fan base being so small, and non-existent were mythbusted. If those same fans, who showed up in 2005/6, went back to not going to games, and are claiming any amount of reasons related stuff that happened in the 80's, they are not really fans. They are just miserable people looking for excuses. 2005 proved that the White Sox have a huge bandwagon component to their fan base. All the last eight years has done is reinforce it. Pre-2005 I didn't buy it at all, but now, the facts are there.

Comcast SportsNet retweeted Mark Schanowski ‏@MarkSchanowski 12m12 minutes ago Congratulations to Jimmy Butler on being named the Eastern Conference Player of the Month. Well-deserved honor for all his off-season work.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 06:09 PM) It's not on par with the Harry Caray/Sportsvision/flawed Comiskey Park design debacles, but it's part of a long laundry list of things that have happened over the past 34 years which have contributed to the alienation of the fans. BS 2005 happened. 3 million people showed up in 2006. Did 1.3 million of them go back to being mad about 1980? Please. If Sox fans are really still pissed about Harry Carey, the New Comiskey Park, White Flag, or any of that other BS, they really are the worst fans in baseball.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) That's an easy one. "Their" stewardship, while no great shakes, did manage to brilliantly maximize the talents of Harry Caray back in the '80s, along with providing them maximum exposure on free TV, which cultivated an entire generation of fans drawn to Caray and that little ballpark that he sold to the fans on a daily basis. So powerful was his draw and the way he sold the Wrigley experience that the effects remain to this very day. Our ownership group? After year one, they both got rid of Caray and took the Sox off free tv, and in my opinion, this organization has never really fully recovered from that. They've had their chances to recover either through fielding a winning team consistently, which they haven't, or by building a stadium with an experience that fans wouldn't want to miss. They blew that chance, big time, with the design of the new Comiskey Park. And while the renovations have been quite nice, in and of themselves they haven't been able to wake up the base. But it's this lack of winning that is the root cause of most of the attendance issues. All we need is a White Flag mention now.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 05:40 PM) A fan base that merely reflects the results of an ownership group who, in 34 years of their stewardship now, have all of one World Series appearance to brag about, with just four other rather non-memorable trips to the postseason. Four wins in those four trips, btw. Is it surprising to you then that we have neither a bigger fan base nor an energized one with the one we've got? Spin it like you want to. If fans don't go to games, they don't get to complain about the payroll.

Geek

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 05:20 PM) Hayes said with arbitration and viciedo staying for now payroll being at about 72 million. That should be with the additions of duke and Laroche. Remember payroll was below 50 ish before arbitration and add in arbitration was up to about 56 ish. Add in Laroche 12 million and 4.5 for duke and at about 72 ish. Said maybe going up to 95 million maybe. http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_ty...x-after-laroche He is leaving out that you have to have 25 players on a roster, and each of those is at least 500k.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 05:32 PM) That's a pitiful payroll for a large market team. If that's correct and if it's mandated, it finally makes sense why the Sox would even entertain trading scarce prospects for 1 year players in areas of secondary need (although I still wouldn't do it). We also have a pitiful fan base, so it fits.

Every geek knows that.

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 16m16 minutes ago The negotiations between the Braves and outfielder Nick Markakis have intensified. Hearing the deal could wind up in range of 4/$45m.

Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB 13m13 minutes ago #BlueJays have signed first baseman Justin Smoak to a one-year contract worth $1 million. He would have earned approximately $3 mil in arb.

wanker

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) I will never ever get used to these new conferences. Davidson is in the A10? Ok. But yes, fun slate of Wednesday games and I'll be watching SIU-SIUe. Go Edwardsville!

Dan Murphy ‏@DanMurphyESPN 2m2 minutes ago Bad news for coaching search stalkers. Michigan's private plane has been blocked on FlightAware. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N582CJ …