SSH2005

The main reason that I'm not opposed to this trade is because while our offense is improved from last season, I still don't think it would hurt to improve it even more. The way I see it, we have four good OPS (~.800 or higher) guys -- Thome, Konerko, Dye, and Iguchi. Crede, Uribe, Pierzynski, Anderson, and Podsednik (I know Podsednik is a leadoff hitter) could all put up mediocre OPS's (~.750 or lower) next season. It wouldn't hurt to improve our OPS a bit at a position and even add some more speed and SB. We would also be adding a pitching prospect to hopefully replace Contreras in the future since he may be gone after 2006 anyways.

Well, I'm not expecting Abreu to put up another .879 OPS. I'm expecting him to put up around a .925 OPS next season. And I'm hoping that Dye can repeat his .846 OPS. Dye doesn't really walk at all so if he isn't hitting a lot of homers, his OPS will drop quite a bit. Abreu draws a ton of walks so even if his bat is slumping he can still get on base in that way.

None of those guys have good stuff or control?

And sometimes you need to look at the numbers before you say that one guy was better in "big games." I don't know how anyone could judge Dye's and Abreu's performances in so-called "big games" on memory alone. I can understand remembering some key hits by Dye but I really doubt a Sox fan was watching Phillies' games last season and remembers how Abreu fared in his "big games."

Well, when you cut off the rest of my post it doesn't make much sense.

I just didn't understand how BP had anything to do with the Dye / Abreu "clutch" argument.

All 162 games of the season matter. Each and every game that is won contributes to trying to win your division. Abreu was a better hitter than Dye on the entire season last year and he was a much better hitter with RISP than Dye. This argument is ridiculous.

And the A's are going to win the division and Willie Harris is great. Blah, blah, blah...

BP doesn't have anything to do with Abreu being a better hitter and better overall player than Dye. Not sure why you even mentioned it. I don't need BP to tell me that Abreu is better than Dye. It's pretty clear and obvious.

That's more important than how each of them hit with runners in scoring position over the course of the entire season? Ummm, no. Runs are what wins games. Scoring runs and not allowing runs is the most important aspect of baseball.

Oh no, not the "big game/clutch" argument. Better hitters are usually better in big situations because they are just better hitters to begin with. Jermaine Dye (2005 stats with RISP): 131 AB | .260 AVG | .327 OBP | .427 SLG | .754 OPS Bobby Abreu (2005 stats with RISP): 152 AB | .303 AVG | .444 OBP | .500 SLG | .944 OPS Jermaine Dye (career stats with RISP): 1,199 AB | .249 AVG | .332 OBP | .394 SLG | .725 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats with RISP): 1,151 AB | .321 AVG | .454 OBP | .549 SLG | 1.003 OPS I wish Dye was as "clutch" as Abreu.

How did I put words in your mouth? Read your last post... You said that Dye and his cheap contract is "fairly even" to Abreu and his large contract, therefore the trade is essentually Contreras for Gavin Floyd. I read that to mean that you think that Dye and his cheap contract has even trade value to Abreu and his large contract. Dye at his salary isn't slightly better than Abreu at his salary... not at all in fact. Even including salaries, Abreu is a pretty big upgrade over Dye.

Not a bust. Greasy face is still playing.

Are you serious? Dye is going to put up an OPS close to Abreu's next season? Abreu had an uncommonly horrible second half last season and he still put up an .879 OPS. Dye ended the season with an .846 OPS. A difference of .033 points of OPS isn't really that similar to begin with. Abreu has a career .923 OPS. Dye has a career .803 OPS. Not gonna happen. And Abreu isn't "slightly" better than Dye. Abreu blows Dye away statistically... Jermaine Dye (career stats): .272 AVG | .334 OBP | .469 SLG | .803 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats): .303 AVG | .411 OBP | .512 SLG | .923 OPS It isn't even close. By the way, Abreu with his large contract is still worth way more than Dye with his cheap contract. It isn't "fairly even." Do you think that the Phillies would trade us Abreu and his contract for Dye and his contract? Not a chance in hell.

Agreed, Josh Fields is a guy who the Phillies would love to get from us (David Bell sucks). But it would be nice to keep him even though Crede isn't a free agent until after 2008. I doubt Floyd would replace McCarthy in the bullpen to start the season. He needs to hone his control at AAA first. It would most likely be Bajenaru and a second lefty in the bullpen, possibly even Urbina if he gets out of jail.

Maybe Adam Dunn without the ability to draw walks but with all the strikeouts.

I doubt that Abreu would make that demand to come play for Ozzie... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...s_cws&fext=.jsp http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASAp...4news&fext=.jsp If we do get Abreu, Urbina is next if he ever gets out of jail.

Van Poppel had two good seasons with the Cubs in 2000 and 2001 as a reliever. http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vanpoto01.shtml That's why he got that contract from the Rangers.

Agreed, Abreu ain't gonna hit 35 homers at the Cell. Maybe 30 at the most. Abreu's value is in his ability to hit for AVG, his massive OBP, and his speed. He's mostly a doubles hitter. Don't let the stupid Homerun Derby fool you. But he would instantly be the best #3 hitter option on our team. Thome is probably the best option at #3 right now. Also, Abreu could probably steal 40 bases again with Ozzie pushing him to run even more.

Not really several years. Abreu will earn $13 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007, and has a $16 million team option or $2 million buyout for 2008. So he would be on the Sox for either 2 or 3 years.

From reading the scouting reports, Gavin Floyd sounds like Brandon McCarthy without the control -- great curveball, low 90's fastball, and good changeup but he struggles with his command.

Not a bust. He was a #1 overall draft pick and he's no ace but he can still make the rotation of many teams. His wife is the bust, or the one with big busts. Now Scott Ruffcorn, he's a bust.

I just meant that he's a massive bust and is out of options.

Yep, he was the Mets top prospect for 3 straight years. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...op10s/mets.html