FlaSoxxJim

Free-Choice Science Education: How We Learn Science Out Of Schools (Ed: Faulk) Because I rock, dammit!

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) If you want to eat you must pray to Mecca, you must practice Witchcraft, dumb dumb system. And don't anybody think that doesn't happen. Most famous is the story of the "Soupers" the Irish potato blight. The Catholic dirt farmers in many parts of the country were reduced to the point of trying to eat grass along the roadsides to survive... or they could go get a handout from the Protestant soup kitchen. The catch, of course, was that you had to renounce your Catholic faith and become a Prod before you got the soup. Of course, faced with the alternatives of emigration or starvation, a great many people converted for the soup and were then reviled by the rest of the Catholic community that didn't buckle.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Name another organization that represents ALL AMERICANS? ALL AMERICANS that are able, contribute through our tax system to social services. Why not have a group of ALL AMERICANS instead of just your Church? The government is you and I and WDJ and Steff and Kip Wells Fan. That's how we take care of our own. Um, congratulations on your citizenship, Kip?? PS Kip: Why'd you go and do a stupid thing like that?

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 11:04 AM) Somehow it has to be the Republican's fault, right? :headshake

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 10:38 AM) There's no obvious incentive for individuals to provide something for other people. Even if it's valuable to them, individuals will tend to piggyback -- 'It's already being provided, my own contribution won't make a noticeable difference.' 'Tragedy of the Commons' on a human dimension.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 10:14 AM) The WMD is always going to be a big negative for those against the war in Iraq. The fact is still to this day that they haven't found 1 single WMD, and that was what made our Prime Minister send troops in the Coalition of the Willing in the 1st place IIRC. Not entirely true. There was one confirmed sighting of a WMD in Iraq. He made a suprise visit there a couple of Thanksgivings ago.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 10:13 AM) pot meet kettle. don't act like you're so above "personal attacks". Using Poland as the crux of your joke about GWB is what I think is pathetic. But of course I can't expect you to admit you're wrong...hell is baking nicely at 4000 degrees. Where have I personally attacked a board member? Criticism of public figures are not personal attacks, nor are jokes that happen to impugn entire nations. Which by the way was not the case in any way here. "You forgot Poland" happened to be Bush's snappy retort, rather than "You forgot Estonia" etc. The dig is clearly directed at the Knucklehead-In-Chief and not at the fine people of Poland or the families who lost soldiers. As for the toasty goodness of Hell, I guess I would have lots of company. How many people are getting into heaven anyway? 144K is a number some of the most rabid UberChristians bandy about, but maybe your ceiling is somewhat higher.

A news story circulated today indicates that flies can contract the bird flu virus. http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=7194 While the experts quoted here rightly note that thius information doesn't necessarily mean there is a likely transmission vector to humans through the flies, they fail to note what I thiunk is more important. The H5N1 strain is a capable species jumper -- not just across closely related species (e.g., chimps and humans), but across vast phylogenic expanses. This is counter to the dogmatic view of viruses being very species specific, as a result of the "lock and key" issues with surface protein binding sites, etc. But the dogmatic view doesn't take recombinant factors into account. It will be interesting if a follow up study reveals that there are acquired (laterally transmitted) genetic differences between H5N1 in birds, flies, and humans.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 09:51 AM) Hell why not have 2 birthdays. Because that would be Cheating? Happy B-Day, Cheat!

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 09:44 AM) Quarters spent on our social programs are dollars saved in our criminal justice system. More crazy talk. Where do you guys get these wacky ideas?

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 08:47 AM) so....you're still an ass for making fun of poland? k...thought so. "Bush famously uttered "Mission Accomplished"" he never said that. I have no doubt in my mind why countries like germany, russia, and france didn't attack iraq----------> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ don't act as if the "coalition of the UNwilling" were so altruistic in their reasons for NOT rescuing millions of people from the death grip of a mad man. OK, I'm an ass, and I'll continue to leave the personal attacks to you. k? Yes, you're right, Bush didn't say "Mission Accomplished" on the deck of the Lincoln and I mis-spoke (or, rather mis-typed). And anyway, since Ari Fleischer soooo convincingly told us all that the banner only referred to the end of the Lincoln's deployment and had nothing to do With Fighter Pilot Bush’s farce of a day on that carrier. As far as making fun of Poland… I was making fun of GWB. I won’t comment on your not being able to tell the difference because as I said, the personal attacks are your gig.

OK, let's have y'alls favorite Dylan lyric: For sure, my #1 is from Tangled Up in Blue: She was married when we first met, soon to be divorced. Helped her out of a jam I guess, but I used a little too much force And a close second, from You'll Go Your Way and I'll Go Mine: You say you love me And you're thinkin' of me, But you know you could be wrong. You say you told me That you wanna hold me, But you know you're not that strong.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 12:14 AM) I was referring to Winodj and Flasoxxjim. "Look over there guys, graves of Italian soldiers you can piss on next!" Sorry, but that farkd image is a great synthesis of two really pathetic Bush moments in a long litany of pathetic Bush moments. Do you think the families of the 1,000+ American soldiers killed after Bush famously uttered "Mission Accomplished" feel he may have been a tad premature there? And for anybody to have watched GWB grimace and wince as he brilliantly uttered his "You forgot Poland" quip in the debate and to have thought, 'Yep, that's my guy!'... well, that's a head scratcher. Poland, the Big Kahuna of the Coalition of the Willing. Of course, compared to Azerbaijan and Eritrea, I guess that's not so far off. El Salvador, Nicaragua and Colombia wouldn't have even signed on except they still need massive US $$ to fund their war on drugs. Friggin' Dream Team, that Coalition of the Willing. :headshake And no curiosity on yor part as to why there were no Middle East countries in the Coalition, or why it hasn't been pointed out that Coalition countries like Ethiopia and Eritrea joined up in hopes of getting US support in the boundary dispute between them. Only outrage and indignation that I could be so callous toward 16 fallen Polish soldiers. Pragmatist that I am I direct most of my outrage at the Administration that lied about the reasons for going to war and had no post-Saddam plan and has bodies still piling up on all sides as a result.

QUOTE(CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 24, 2005 -> 12:05 AM) Suck up.

QUOTE(CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 11:52 PM) Jim didn't seem the least bit annoyed. He very calmly pointed out you were just plain wrong. No, I didn't feel I was personally being attacked by PA in any way. I read a reiteration of a rather tired opinion on secular humanism and the 'absolute and utter despair' such a life must convey, and I responded as I felt appropriate. PA, I also responded to the charge of "inequal treatment of religious views" is the other thread and basically said that until one's religious views compell him/her to infringe on the rights of others then more power to them. Once that person's religious views try to externally force conformity on others then he/she should be ready to get an earful on the matter. Where do values like grace and mercy come from then? Well, there are perfectly good secular definitions of both, suggesting a secular origin is reasonable. Mercy as compassion/forbearance of another when you don't have to, rather than an act of Divine favor. Grace as charm, humility, or a sense of propriety rather than a gift of virtue from a Divine Agent.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 11:21 PM) Could it be as simple as society makes life easier for a heterosexual breeder with 2.3 children? Or could it be some inner compass at work? ... The Bible is a great self help book, perhaps guiding people to a straight lifestyle does make people happier. I've seen stats regarding suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and other self destructive lifestyles and it would seem that gays are as a group less happy than straights. In regard to the suicides, drug and alcohol abuse, and other self destructive lifestyles, I would say that gays are as a group MADE TO BE less happy BY THE straights. I'm sure it's like never getting out of that high school stage where you would do anything to just fit in. Only here, instead of wearing the right shoes or having the coolest car, you have to try to be something that you so totally and complettely are not. Why do you think that the overwhelming majority of gays are not out? It's because the straight and narrows pretty much make life a s*** sandwich for the groups that don't fit in. So, since it's easier to be gay passing as straight, rather than say, being black trying to pass as white, most gays do this for a substantial portion of their lives. Only they know it's a lie. Damned if you do and if you don't - either waste your time trying to appease society, or be true to yourself and suffer society's wrath for it. Well, theodicy-minded anti-theologian that I am, I would suggest that if God loves us and wants us to be happy, he would encourage more tolerant lifestyles so we didn't all make each other so miserable for so much of the time.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 10:50 PM) Peers? Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Jacko's Jury of Peers:

I don't agree with him straight down the line, but I'd agree Dylan has earned the right to say what he wants to say.

Happy Belated

QUOTE(winodj @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 08:31 PM)

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 06:59 PM) Without absolute Good, how can you even begin to place value on things or actions? You can't be an atheist and claim any legitimate value system, because the things you place your beliefs in are arbitrary and completely based on the whims of the population...there's no absolute truth. By definition, there must exist a higher power. PA, you get up in arms when somebody makes sweeping generalizations or makes glip caricature portrayals of Christians, but you're doing precisely that here. "Absolute Good" doesn't exist as part of the human condition, save perhaps the innocence of a baby. But then again, that old original sin tarnishes even that. Therefore, absolute good exists merely in the person of a Divine Agent for you, or as a useful abstraction for charting a moral path for me. It's a draw, but we both understand where our actions fall on the scale set by that Agent/abstraction -- far short. Relative good is more than sufficient in a secular world where one strives to be a better person. Each day, you can try to do better than the day before, and in doing so you're heading in the right direction. Can't be an atheist and claim any legitimate value system?? That is 100% incorrect. A secular value system, like I told Tex, doesn't equate with a hedonistic anything goes morality. As a matter of fact, since it is based on levels of goodness that are humanly attainable the system is at least as legitimate as one based on a spiritual ideal good. As for "By definition, there must exist a higher power" -- well, that is tautology, pure and simple.

Check it out... It's DARTH 'TATER!!

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 06:02 PM) no, ignoring doctrine and fundemental teachings of Jesus, Paul, and other early church leaders= evil. ok, then. JOHN and Paul = Jesus and Paul (Pablo?) = not so much

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 02:50 PM) You know really, this is some scary stuff. The science (ahem, Flaxx, edumacate us please) of this is truely a nightmare scenario. Indeed the world is WAY overdue for one of these. OK, here you go... At the heart of the matter is recombinant genetics -- genetic information from two different organisms or viruses etc., can recombine to form new and genetically unique strains. Via viruses and bacterial plasmids (little circles of DNA), Nature has for billions of years been engaging in these kinds of lateral gene transfers (as opposed to 'typical' vertical transfer from parent to offspring). Importantly, recombinant events are NOT mutations, and can bring about major adaptive changes much faster than single point mutations ever could. It's basically the difference between changing a single letter (point mutation) and potentially paragraphs or pages of information in the genome (recombination). The scenario the linked article presents for recombination of H5N1 and human flu strains is sketchy, but history provides precident and cause for concern. The killer 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic that has been noted here is most likely the result of a chimeric (recombinant) flu strain that had an unusual recombination of pig and human flu genes. A Sept. 2001 paper in Science presented the evidence for this contention. Similarly, the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics occurred when bird virus hemagglutin (surface protein) genes got into a human viral strain. Even garden variety flu strains mutate quickly, changing their surface proteins ever so slightly so that each year new vaccines must be produced. By definition, the vaccines are of course always one year out of date, because the new formulations are based on the make-up of previous season's flu variants. Still, the changes are usually not so great between consecutive years that the vaccines don't perform fairly well. There was another thread a couple weeks ago where I noted essentially the same thing - as long as the flu has not changed in too many places pandemics don't occur.

QUOTE(winodj @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 02:59 PM) The truth simply is that equal people deserve equal rights under the auspices of responsible government. Now that's just crazy talk.