WCSox

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) Yes, there's a difference as far as Jose is concerned. But from the other team's point of view, there's no difference if they're going up against a bad pitcher or an injured one. Again, I disagree. If, for example, the Tigers watch Jose struggle now and KNOW that he's hurt, they pretty much know that they're going to be able to hit him next month, they're going to get a huge confidence boost, and are going to attack him when they square off in a couple of weeks. If they chalk up his struggles to a bad stretch that he could snap out of at any time, they're not going to step into the batter's box with the same confidence. QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 02:58 PM) The white sox wouldn't hide Contreras being hurt. But Jose probably would... I don't think he's hurt enough not to pitch. He's thrown a lot of pitches since going on the DL. It's the damn different arm angles he's throwing each pitch. Unless he's trying to compensate for an injury---I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case with him trying to suck it up and win another title. If Herm knew that Jose was injured and that continuing to pitch would aggravate the injury, Jose would be on the DL right now. But if Jose can pitch through it without any long-term damage, it wouldn't make any sense for the Sox to announce the injury. I agree that Jose's just sucking it up and taking one for the team. And as was mentioned before, him throwing exclusively sidearm instead of mixing it up with 3/4 angle pitches like he did earlier may be to take strain off of his upper back/shoulder. QUOTE(ChiSoxLifer @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 04:01 PM) t doesn't make any sense to hide an injury. Remember what happened last year when Damaso hid an injury from Ozzie? You could make an argument that if Jose gets on track, he would be more important than having Thome in the lineup. During the games Thome missed the past week, the Sox offense more than stepped up. Didn't Konerko have an injury back in the first half of '03 that the Sox kept under wraps? In general, it's never a good idea to tell your opponent that "this guy is hurt" if he's in the game.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 02:05 PM) Oh please. Other teams have this funny thing called advanced scouting. If the scouts see Jose's bad 3 or 4 games in a row, not too many players will be intimidated even if they think Jose's pitching healthy. There's a huge difference between not pitching well because you don't have your best stuff/location and not pitching well because you physically CAN'T. Jose could be dangerous down the stretch if the former scenario is correct, but not the latter.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:55 PM) Why would the Sox benefit from hiding an injury? Most likely because it would bolster the confidence of opposing teams. The Sox look a lot more beatable if they KNOW that Contreras is pitching poorly because he has an ailing back.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:26 PM) Of course, it's probably also worth noting that quite a few people here, including me, have been convinced that one of the reasons BMac was not lights out in long-relief is that BMac has not had regular work. Many of the outings where he struggled were outings where his usage was quite random...the best example being the month of May, where he made 1 spot start on >5 days rest, then had about 10 days off afterwards, then came out and got hit hard. He had an ERA over 6 that month. Outside of that month, he's had an ERA of 3.21, and batters are hitting .207 against him. Sure, that's likely a factor as well. My point was that, as SS2k mentioned, there were no guarantees that whoever would've replaced Javy in long-relief would've done much better. Not to mention that our bullpen would've been stretched even further. But I agree that B-Mac seems to pitch better when he gets regular work. I'll be happy when he's starting again next season.

I agree that Ozzie should've been more aggressive in removing Javy from games in the 5th or 6th earlier in the season, but let's not pretend that B-Mac has been absolutley lights-out in long-relief this season. And let's not pretend that Javy's the only starter who has stunk up the joint in the 5th or 6th inning this year.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 10:36 AM) carlos guillen with another error. shocking. As good as Detroit's pitching and clutch hitting have been, their defense has been absolutely wretched this season.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 10:45 PM) Rotoworld: Full no-trade That's a hell of a contract for a small-framed guy who throws hard. He's going to have a major arm injury at some point. But Houston pretty much had to stick with him, as Clemens is almost certainly gone next season and Pettitte is getting into his mid-30s.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) I'm going to cheat and say JC and Mark. I say those two because I actually think they're capable of turning it around, while I know Freddy and Javy aren't capable of any sort of turn around. Agreed. We're going to need consistently-good pitching from a minimum of three starters and so far Garland is the only one who's doing it right now. I like Mark's chances to rebound, but I'm really concerned that Jose's back is in bad shape and they're keeping it under wraps.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:55 AM) Right now it seems Boston will be down at least one of Manny/Ortiz and maybe not have both for our upcoming series vs them. If thats the case they are not a very scary team at all. With only 1 of them playing you can pitch around him and if neither they are a pretty horrific team. Not to mention the fact that Boston has essentially thrown in the towel by announcing that Wells is on the trading block. That won't inspire their players to play great baseball.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 10:58 AM) Garcia is only due $10M next year which really isn't all that much for a guy of Freddy's "stature" they'll get a very good package of prospects from an NL team, I'm certain of it. It's a lot for a guy who is on the down-slope of his career, recently lost 5 mph off of his fastball, and has been pitching like crap all season. I could see the Mets giving up some decent players for him, but only because Minaya has an open checkbook with the new Mets network revenue allowing them to over-pay. But outside of NY, he's not going to be worth enough to get a prospect on B-Mac's level. I wouldn't be surprised if KW had to eat some of Freddy's salary.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 10:46 AM) For Crawford? Anything they want, they can take anyone from the minor league system and any prospects the Sox pickup after dealing Garcia and Podsednik. Crawford would turn the Sox into an offensive jugernaut. Crawford would also require that KW deal B-Mac. No thanks. I don't think that the Sox are going to get much in terms of prospects for Garcia and Pods (especially considering how much the Sox owe Freddy next season). And if the D-Rays didn't think that Ervin Santana was enough for Crawford, Crawford-for-Sox-prospects is highly unlikely.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 09:17 AM) If Ozzie Guillen ever starts making baseball moves concerning line up changes, batting orders and personnel based on posts from this board he should be fired! B) No kidding. I don't agree with everything the guy does, but I can't believe the level of scrutiny he's coming under. He's less than a year removed from delivering a championship and currently has the Sox in first in the Wild Card race and on pace to win 95 games despite incredibly mediocre starting pitching. Until his teams truly under-achieve for multiple years, I'm on his side.

He's pitched well over the past month, but it's just a matter of time before his fat ass goes back on the DL. And even if he wasn't a clubhouse cancer, McCarthy in the rotation and Cotts/Thornton 'pen are better options at this point.

QUOTE(Maverick0984 @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 09:24 PM) Yes Contreras stayed undefeated up until the All-Star break and whenever he technically gave it up afterwords, but he had quite a few no-decisions and huge run support from the offense, I "felt" his falter well before it actually happened. JG > JC. Speaking of extraordinary run support, how the hell is Garland 15-4 right now with a mediocre 4.47 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP?

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 02:07 PM) No, we are not. LOL! The Red Sux are something like 5 game out of the Wild Card race and are dealing with injuries to Varitek and Manny, while Ortiz is in the hospital with an irregular heartbeat. On the other hand, the White Sox are a half game out of the Wild Card and their only injured star is supposed to be back in the lineup tomorrow. Tell me how those two situations are similar.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) You know, I think Thome would work best in the 4 hole personally. That way you keep his OBP in front of Konerko and Crede so that there's more likely to be a person on base when they destroy a ball. You could also have the nice looking, balanced lineup of "LRRLRRLRR" (on the 2 days per month when we actually play our opening day lineup) which would make it even more difficult for teams to use LOOGY's effectively to knock out anyone except Thome. Good point. Of course, having a high-OBP guy infront of Paulie also increases Paulie's chance of grounding into one of his inning-ending double plays. But I think that the strategic benefit with regard to opposing pitchers would outweigh that.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) Surprisingly, he can't touch some of the others. I wouldn't doubt that some of them could out-drink most frat houses. I wouldn't know, but A.J. and Freddy both seem like they could both really put it away.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) I understand what you're saying with this, in that there's still room for this team to go 31-1 and play like it should for the last month of the season This team doesn't have the starters to go anywhere near 31-1, especially considering the talent they're facing next month. I could see 24-8 if they got really lucky. But agreed that when healthy, Thome should be moved into the 5-hole and JD up to the 3-spot.

QUOTE(valponick @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 01:51 PM) Please, do you have any idea where we would be without Garland in the second half? I find it interesting that Garland's getting a lot of love, despite the fact that he was awful for the first two months of the season. Not that I disagree, but I find it somewhat odd that Jose's lights-out pitching from April-June has been downgraded in comparison.

Apologies if somebody already started a similar thread... MVP: Dye - Monster season at the plate and solid defense in RF Runner-Up: Crede - A career-best at the plate and a freaking vacuum at 3B Cy Young: Jenks - 36/38 in saves... enough said Runner-Up: Contreras - Tough call since nobody else really stands out, but Jose was a bad-ass early on and has the best combination of ERA and WHIP among starters

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 01:11 PM) If the series was based on alcohol consumption... we'd definitely be repeating this year. Jenks alone would carry this team.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) I thought this would be a fun topic to discuss, the best teams since 1980. We could do all time but this is a lot easier for now. Here are mine 1. 1998 Yankees 2. 1984 Tigers 3. 1986 Mets 4. 2005 White Sox 5. 1989 A's Given that the '86 Mets didn't even come close to dominating the WS (and won because Buckner made a Little League error in Game 6), I couldn't put them up there. And outside of Maddux and Wohlers being off-the-hook-good that year, the '95 Braves weren't all that impressive either, IMO. 1. '98 Yankees 2. '84 Tigers 3. '99 Yankees 4. '89 A's 5. '05 White Sox

TB: 2-1 KC: 3-0 BOS: 2-1 CLE: 2-2 LAA: 1-2 OAK: 1-2 DET: 1-2 SEA: 3-1 CLE: 2-1 MIN: 1-2 Total = 18-14 I hope that the Twins tail off, because I don't know if that'll be enough to win the WC.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 08:57 AM) I can understand Brandon not being in the starting rotation. Besides demoting someone, you would be asking a veteran who has never been in the pen, to learn this on about Labor Day. It doesn't make any sense. I think our contention is that Brandon hasn't been challenged at all in the pen. Montero got thrown out there in the 8th inning of close games. Boone Logan got to face Travis Hafner twice. Thornton got thrown into every possible pressure situation before he showed he had broken through... etc etc. What big situations has Brandon McCarthy been tested in? None. I see your point. The only possible explanation for those moves are that Montero and Thornton are both a lot older than B-Mac and have more experience. Thornton and Logan both came in to get out a tough left-handeder, a situation that McCarthy is obviously not going to be in. One could argue that Ozzie is just being extra-careful in bringing B-Mac along, although I'm not sure how strong of an argument it would be. I don't really see how B-Mac's quiet demeanor could "clash" with Ozzie, given guys like Paulie, Thome, and Garland aren't exactly hyperactive loud-mouths. But other than the Sox being extra-careful with B-Mac, I can't offer an alternative explanation.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) So we hate Ozzie now? No kidding. This is just ridiculous. As for B-Mac, he's not conditioned to throw more than 80 pitches at this point. And with the way that the starters have been performing, it would be wise to have one really good long-relief option in the 'pen. It's almost a given that somebody will need to relieve Vazquez and Freddy in the 6th inning of their starts. If B-Mac is moved out of the 'pen, that puts a much heavier workload on MacDougal, Cotts, Riske, and Thornton. Moving Vazquez to the 'pen would be a disaster, IMO. If he lacks the confidence to throw strikes after he gets ahead of hitters as a starter, he'll be even worse after a demotion. It's a bad situation, but unless Vazquez or Freddy are consistently getting shelled over the first four or five innings of their starts, I'd keep the status quo. On the other hand, playing Mackowiak in CF is a different story... QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 07:07 AM) There obviously is something that doesn't seem to add up here, as Ozzie doesn't seem to have the same regard for McCarthy as most fans and the rest of the Sox organization. I wonder if it will become a huge problem down the road. Not giving McCarthy every opportunity to succeed may lead to a big rift at some point. I could be wrong about this, but it might have more to do with demoting Freddy or Javy than Ozzie not liking B-Mac.