WCSox

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 07:32 PM) Well, thanks for the memories Freddy. I only hope your 88 mph is still in style next year. Apparently GMs around the league are aware of Freddy's diminishing skills as well. I was a big Freddy supporter earlier this year but when it became apparent that his velocity drop wasn't temporary, I jumped ship. It's too bad, because he's a gamer. Still, I'm unpleasantly surprised that KW couldn't get more in return.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) Because we would have to trade for Manny and the Red Sox are going to want talent. Versus paying Bonds money and giving up nothing. Except about $18 million and any sense of chemistry and privacy in the clubhouse. Bonds is going to be a clubhouse cancer and will create a massive media circus wherever he goes. QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 02:33 PM) I also would watch the Sox 2x as much to make up for all the people who claim they wouldnt watch. Why do you have such man-love for this guy? Even if you put aside the steroid use, he's a complete ass who alienates teammates and fans wherever he goes, he's an injury risk, he can't play defense anymore, and he isn't going to produce anywhere near his $18 million tag at the plate.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 01:59 PM) Albert Belle? The first year it didn't work out too great, but the second year, Belle put up one of the greatest single season performances in White Sox history. It's not his fault that the Sox best starting pitcher had a 4.80 ERA... You wanna talk about an awful staff? Look at some of those numbers, and I swear, no one will ever complain about Javy Vazquez ever again. In his second season, Belle was also arrested for domestic abuse, which made leery fans dislike him even more. He was awesome in the second half of '98, but failed to get the Sox to the playoffs and also failed to put butts in the seats. Oh, and he was out of town after just two seasons and his degenerative hip soon forced him into retirement. The moral of the story is that spending a ton of money on a power-hitting PR nightmare isn't going to (1) get the Sox closer to a championship or (2) increase revenue significantly. It's a lose-lose scenario. QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 02:33 PM) And I would prefer Bonds to Manny. Why? Bonds is in the twilight of his career and will certainly miss at least some time with injuries. Barry is also a self-centered ass who goes out of his way to alienate teammates and fans. Manny is in his mid-30's, but is still highly-productive. And he doesn't have Barry's attitude baggage.

The Sox already tried the experiment with the malcontent, clubhouse-cancer, power-hitting LF a decade ago. It didn't work out then, so I don't see why it'd work now.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 05:05 AM) Or he felt while Mackowiak was a bad option in center, he could have felt that Brian was worse... I get the feeling that BA's attitude was a problem. Given the quotes of his that I've read in the papers over this past season and third-hand knowledge from somebody who knows him, I get the impression that he's not the most mature person in the world. That's the only justification of playing Mack in CF down the stretch that I can think of. I don't condone Ozzie's big mouth or the way that he treats certain players, but he's still the best manager the Sox have had since LaRussa.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 08:58 AM) Well to be fair, anytime anyone deals with TB there is a big AND when you start talking about prospects. I want CC Well give us Santana AND 2 high stud prospects, and 1 lower prospect. Yeah, TB's asking prices are insane, even in a market where J.D. Freaking Drew gets $70 million.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 08:46 AM) Big John Lackey is better than Santana. Out of the 2 I would like Lackey. Now I would take either, however. +1 No wonder they didn't go for it. Lackey is their best combination of consistency, experience, and health. I find it odd that the Angels have been offering Santana as trade bait, but teams like TB and (apprently) the Sox seem hesitant to deal for him. Maybe there's something about him that we don't know.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) WGN Radio had a clip of Ozzie running his mouth about how Brandon is going to AAA, because he doesnt want to pitch out of the pen and he has no right to ask to pitch in the rotation. Ozzie needs to learn how to keep his top lip and his bottom lip together more. Ozzie must be getting twitchy now that KW might trade his relative. Ozzie is the Billy Martin of his generation. Maybe JR will fire him and then hire him again and then fire him and re-hire him...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) If A-Rod hadn't bulked up, as some on here have mentioned, I would have much rather had Uribe at 3B and A-Rod at SS. As we know, Rodriguez isn't the greatest 3B, but he was a damn good SS. Uribe is one of the best SS's in the game, but I think he'd be able to handle 3B much better than A-Rod could. So, instead of having a great SS and a slightly-above-mediocre 3B, we would have two pretty damn great defenders at both positions. That is, of course, if A-Rod hadn't put on weight. A-Rod was actually doing pretty well at 3B up until the '05 playoffs. I think that his defensive problems are mental and that he'd improve if he got out of The Bronx.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 10:36 AM) I think it's just Buehrle. I really don't see Garcia pitching for the Sox in '07. Probably not. And at the very least, I don't see KW re-signing him. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 10:56 AM) I really think it's a pipe dream. A-Rod, that is. Really doubt he'd waive his NTC to play for the White Sox. I think that A-Rod would do just about anything to get out NYC right now.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) Good stuff. Pablo is a damn good utility guy that does a lot of good things. +1

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) 5/65 is more than Carpenter got for his extension. I don't think KW is going to pay Mark more than that. Carpenter could've gotten more than that. He's dominated over the past three years, won a Cy Young, pitched lights-out in the WS, won a ring, etc. Methinks that he really wanted to stay in St. Louis and settled for a "hometown discount."

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 09:27 AM) He's still 28, a lefty, he doesn't have any pitches that put heavy torque on his arm like a Zito does, he pitches to the defense and has won a World Series. If he does it for anyone, I think Mark would be the guy. He also began his ML career at age 21 and has thrown 200+ innings over the past 6 years. And he does feature a breaking ball that puts torque on his arm (not to the extent of Zito's, but still). And his stuff isn't on the same level as Zito's. Mulder is another guy who came up at an early age and threw a ton of innings. Look at what happened to him this past year. And then look at Buehrle's decline in velocity over the second half of last season. I'm not saying that the Sox shouldn't re-sign him, but I can't blame KW and JR for being hesitant to give Buehrle $60-$70 million over 5 years.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 09:22 AM) Sorry, I didn't mean for Freddy, I meant for Mark. $14 mil/year for Mark is reasonable. That said, it'll likely be a five-year deal. Unless JR can get a "hometown discount" at 5/$60, I think that he's gone after this year. I just can't see JR committing $70 million to a pitcher who has mediocre stuff and a ton of innings on his arm.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 09:11 AM) I think Carpenter just set the market. Maybe 3/42 with an player/team option year or two. That's a mil a year more than Carpenter, who's older and has a bit of an injury history. Freddy and Carpenter are apples and oranges. No way that Freddy gets $14 million/year... at least, not from the Sox. QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 09:18 AM) If you have a mutual option for 2 more years, that's pretty much a 5 year deal. I think that Buehrle rejects that hits the FA market. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he'd be kind of stupid not to.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 09:02 AM) This is great news. We sign one of these guys I agree, if Buehrle is the one who is re-signed. Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I'd rather not see the Sox re-sign Freddy and his mid-80's fastball.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 10:06 PM) On the other hand, this could be KW's way of saying "take it or leave it". It seems more likely now than ever that Garcia, Buehrle, or Vazquez will get traded in the next 2 weeks. QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 03:55 AM) This is KW posturing for potential trade partners. He wants to make it look like he's not eager to trade any of his pitchers and that he's trying to extend their contracts. I'd say it's definitely one of these scenarios, if not both. He's either trying to lock one of these guys up for another three years (and I'll bet low-balling Freddy big-time) before FA inflates their price tags or trying to increase their trade value by playing the "I don't NEED to trade ANY of my pitchers" card. My money is on Freddy getting traded, as he has pretty much zero chance of re-signing with the Sox when he hits free agency.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) Wait a minute... I wasn't advocating that guys with no mlb experience will necessarily hit as projected. I was advocating that guys who have shown they can hit normally are more consistent than say, young pitchers. Crawford has proven he can be a star in this league. Brandon has not. To annoint him as some sort of messiah, as has been done by just as many here as we accused the Cubs fans of doing with Mark Prior, is making a lot of assumptions. I'd deal McCarthy in a heartbeat if it meant getting Crawford. As much as everyone here wants to talk about the mashers we had in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 that we didn't win with, the failure was not their fault. The failure was that we never developed any great pitching. Now I understand many of you think Brandon is the first time we have done that, he hasn't shown us that he can be a great young pitcher on any consistent basis. Remember in 2000 and 2001, when we had a top farm system that was stacked with arms? How many of them panned out? What happened to all of them? I'm not saying that we should assume all our young pitchers will fail. I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to assume that they won't. And if you get a chance to get a player like Carl Crawford for a guy who has done little to live up to his hype, then you have to make that deal IMO. I can't believe the excessive man-love that Crawford gets here. One of our starters is way past his prime and battled back problems for a good part of this past season, another lost 5-8 mph off of his fastball this year, another has great stuff but can't stay away from the big inning, and yet another had an awful second half this year and will command big bucks in the FA market next winter. Oh, and all four of these guys get paid $10 million/year or more... and two of them will be free agents after '07. Despite the fact that B-Mac is our most promising young pitcher since Garland and he's dirt-cheap, you want to deal him for Kenny Lofton, Jr. and try to compete with an aging rotation that's already having problems with injuries and diminished skills? No, thanks. Remember the 2000 playoffs when our big, bad-ass lineup did jack squat against Seattle in the ALDS?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 03:37 PM) So after we get more offense, can we get Felix Diaz back so he can pitch out of our rotation. Everyone preaches how pitching won in 2005, then the minute we can get another offensive player we all go ga ga for it. We had Valentin, Carlos Lee, Maggs, Thomas, Konerko and couldnt finish first for the most part in our own division which was piss poor up until recently. Those teams looked like world beaters on paper, then the twins pitched us into the dirt. Couldn't have said it better myself. Any Sox fan who witnessed the Jerry Manuel era (and even this past season) could tell you that a lineup of mashers with average or below-average starting pitching isn't going to translate into playoff succes. Crawford on the South Side would be great, but not at the expense of B-Mac.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 03:11 PM) And like I always say, I'll take my chances of great young pitching over great young hitting. +1 As mediocre/bad as Pods is in the leadoff spot, the Sox are in need of starting pitching. Crawford is a luxury, not a necessity.

At the right price, Rowand back on the South Side would be awesome. But I don't think that we'd get him back at a reasonable price.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) Konerko ended up signing for below market value (atleast after this free agency period), the Sox were able to work out a deal with Konerko's reasonable agents which was fair for both sides and offered very nice compensation for the player. Joe Crede on the other hand will be recieving a deal WELL over market value and for more years than should be handed out for a player with his injury concerns. I'm still convinced that Boras wants Joe to go to free agency no matter what and most likely wouldn't be all that interested in working out a long term deal with the Sox unless they're really willing to overpay. Boras' #1 goal as an agent is to make his clients as much money as possible and the best way to do that is to get his guys out on the open market and get 4-6 teams bidding for his clients services. You don't often make the real big bucks by negotiating out contract extensions with the player's original team before they're able to hit free agency, there's no competition involved and thus the overall payout of the contract is usually much lower. That's why Boras is the best, he's knows exactly how to work the system for his clients inorder to make the most green possible. Joe Crede will not be an exception, otherwise he would never have hired Boras in the firstplace. More money and more importantly more years. I'm thinking 6 gauranteed with 1 or 2 option years, with vesting clauses included. +1 Players who have Boras represent them know exactly what they're getting into. If WE know that JR won't deal with Boras, Crede surely knows that as well, but apparently doesn't care. I'm not saying that he's greedy or a bad guy or anything, but getting as much guaranteed money as possible is clearly Crede's priority (and I don't blame him, especially with his bad back). Whatever happens, I'll be forever in debt to Joe for what he did down the stretch in '05. But I don't want the Sox to over-pay for him at the expense of the rest of the team.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) Personally, I'd say it was the pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, and pitching...but a key part of that pitching is having a catcher who the pitchers trust. Yep, that was a huge part of it. Another part of it is having a manager that instills confidence in his young pitchers. Given Jerry Manuel's relationship with Foulke, I don't think that he would've gotten as much out of Jenks last Fall. QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 1, 2006 -> 09:56 AM) It was the pitching, but that team had attitude. They wanted people to doubt them. Last year they didn't have that same attitude, they proved it and everyone thought they were going to win again. I can almost guarantee that if the "experts" put Cleveland, Detroit or Minny ahead of the Sox this year, they will have that attitude back. That attitude also carried over into this past season, where the Sox would put up five or six runs late in the game to force extra innings. I didn't see much of that in the Jerry Manuel/Terry Bevington era.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2006 -> 08:44 AM) If we want to be competitive the next few years, we need AJ as the catcher. Not because it's impossible for us to replace his production, not because he's such a great catcher or he's such a great value or anything else like that, but entirely because he's such a key part of this team's attitude. Bringing in Ozzie was a big step at getting away from the lackadasical Manuel years where it seemed everyone waited around for something to happen. But every one of us noticed how much of a difference it made when we threw AJ into that mix. I for one feel that if you were to trade AJ, you're basically trading away this team's balls. Excellent point. Even with all of the career years and incredible second halves some of our players had in '05, the attitude that Ozzie and A.J. brought to this squad was what pushed that team over the hump, IMO.

That might be the most ridiculous statement I've ever read here.