WCSox

First it was get rid of Ozzie. Now get rid of Thome??? You guys have lost your marbles...

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 16, 2006 -> 08:22 AM) That's the one thing that bugs me about Islam... Everytime someone offends anyone, people start to riot and threaten everybody. Christianity faces its demons publicly and often. We hear the priest abuse sex scandal mentioned still all of the time, as well as things like the inquisition and the Papal holocaust ignoring/sympathsizing thrown back at Christians, and do you see people rioting in the streets and callling for Islamic leaders deaths and comparing them to Hitler? No. You see them on TV apologizing for the deaths carried out in God's name instead of on TV screaming for more blood to be spilled over no more than a percieved insult, meanwhile Islamic leaders preach death to America and Israel EVERY SINGLE DAY. Gee I wonder where people get the ideas that Pope Benedict spoke about? And believe me I know that not ALL Islam is like that, and guess what, not all Christianity helped the Nazis or Spaniards either during those killing sprees. And they also don't act insulted when those are mentioned. ^^^ Apparently some of these jihad freaks have begun burning Orthodox and Anglican churches. Perhaps somebody needs to tell these morons the difference. Oh wait, they don't care because all of Christianity is sinful in their eyes. Jihad! Praise Allah! Or perhaps somebody needs to tell them that their decision to burn churches to the ground just proves Benedict's point.

QUOTE(BamaDoc @ Sep 16, 2006 -> 07:52 AM) With the exception of Garland, none of our pitchers has had a great year thus it will be hard to get full value for any of them. Considering April and May, Garland hasn't really had a "great year" either. He and Contreras have had "good" years, but certainly not great ones. Freddy's fastball isn't coming back, so it looks like he's the odd man out.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Sep 10, 2006 -> 07:54 AM) One question that needs to be answered is the amount of spending money we'll have in the offseason. I would try to make a play for Soriano if that's feasible after dumping one or two of our starting pitchers. One of the two starting spots would go to McCarthy and then I'd sign a 5th starter type who can give you some innings (Lidle?). Soriano in a Sox uniform would be awesome, but he's going to command an absolute ton of money. I'd rather throw Sweeney out in LF and spend the money on something else (e.g., a long-term deal for Buehrle, assuming that his back is better and he's pitching well at this time next season).

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) I just don't buy into the injury excuse right now. We've had great luck avoiding injuries this year, We haven't had great luck in avoiding injuries this season. It only appears that way because they haven't been severe enough to warrant long stints on the DL. Buehrle, Contreras, and Dye have all been fighting through back injuries. Thome has been battling hamstring and other nagging injuries and CLEARLY isn't the same guy who hit 30 dingers before the All-Star break. Garcia isn't "injured" per se, but his arm strength is only at about 80% of what it was last season. So, do these other players lose 5 mph off of their fastball (Buehrle) or have to alter their delivery (Contreras) when they experience back pain as well?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 06:51 AM) And Ozzie taking all the heat doesn't overshadow the fact that he can not manage, at all. You're right. I'm sure that some of the Internet Baseball Experts here would do a much better job.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:54 AM) And tired and in pain, IMO. This is the major problem. It's difficult to play like a champion when your back hurts like hell every time you throw a ball or swing a bat.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) Personally, I'd make it one of Cintron/Ozuna if I was dumping someone for a 5th outfielder. Why? First, because Cintron and Ozuna can cover most of the same positions. Second, because Mackowiak can cover some of those same positions (3b, 2b) as well (if he's not locked into CF), thus giving us 3 backups at each of those positions, which is more than I think we need. With Uribe prone to slumps (and not that great at the plate in general), I'm not sure that I'd want Ozuna playing SS for an extended period of time. You really need a good defensive player at that position and I don't know if Ozuna is good enough. If he were, I don't think that /KWOzzie would've brought in Cintron. And with Pods out of the picture next season, Ozuna will be the only speedy base-stealer left. Mackowiak can competiently play the corner infield and outfield positions and is too good a hitter (for a bench player) to dump. And with Ozuna and Gload pretty much equal at the plate, so I'd say that Gload is the odd man out. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind trading Sweeney and another prospect or two for a really solid leadoff-hitting outfielder. Crawford is a pipe-dream, but there may be a lesser player available this winter.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:27 AM) With Jim Thome still on this team...I believe it would be a bad one. Gload gives us a backup plan at 1st base if either Konerko or Thome are hurting...and I don't want Jim Thome playing first to be the backup option when Konerko needs time off. I don't think that Gload's upside is high enough to keep him around if it's absolutely necessary to obtain a right-handed backup outfielder. Mackowiak could play 1B if need be. If somebody needs to be dropped to make space for a right-handed 4th OF, I'd rather it be Gload than Mackowiak, Cintron, or Ozuna.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) Gload is out of options and can not be sent down. Then release him. Or would that be a bad move as well? :rolleyes

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) Um, Gload is also a lefty. So in other words...all 3 of your players who could back up the outfield are lefties. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) You'd be platooning 2 lefties who don't hit left hand pitching all that well so basically you're going with the automatic out against a left hand pitcher. Given that Pods is pretty much an automatic out against ANYBODY right now and is a below-average left-fielder, platooning lefties who can hit SOMEBODY and play LF competently is a step forward. I'd have no problem sending Gload down and either bringing up or trading for a right-handed backup corner-outfielder. That can be done easily. But I'm not convinced that Sweeney is going to hit major-league pitching right away and it might be better to platoon him with Mackowiak at first. Nobody wants another sub-Mendoza Line rookie in the outfield again next year, especially given that Anderson still has a lot to prove at the plate.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 10:56 AM) Where is the leadoff hitter going to play, as you have all the positions covered? Also, why would you platoon Sweeney with Mackowiak? That doesn't make much sense. I do agree 100 pct with you that we need to dump Freddy, no matter what we get in return. It's too bad we didn't do that at the trade deadline. HOW ABOUT THE SOX ACQUIRE A 4TH OUTFIELDER WHO CAN PLAY NUMEROUS OUTFIELD POSITIONS AND BAT RIGHTY!!!!! Well, I obviously don't have all of the positions covered. The Sox could certainly use a leadoff hitter, but there isn't a guy currently in the organization (besides Pods) who would fit that role. Iguchi would be the closest, IMO. Platooning Sweeney with Mackowiak would ease Sweeney into role and take pressure off of him, although it's not necessary. I don't see the problem with platooning two lefties as long as Gload is still on the bench.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) It's pretty difficult to platoon 2 lefties. But it may be necessary if Sweeney doesn't hit.

This is what I would do... 1. Trade Freddy for mid-level prospects or whatever, trying to eat as little of that $10 million as possible. Move B-Mac into his spot in '07. 2. Dump Pods and give Sweeney a shot in LF, possibly platooning with Mackowiak. 3. Pick up Buehrle's option for next season. I'm not convinced that he's healthy right now (he's had back problems recently), so I don't think that he's lost it. 4. Keep Anderson in CF. 5. Keep Uribe at SS. 6. Look to trade for a leadoff hitter with speed.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 04:24 PM) Here, want me to say it one more time? Maybe it'll sink in then? Get.a.clue. You're the one who needs to "get a clue" because I never said that last year's offense was "good in any way, shape or form." I said that Pods' ability to steal bases helped a team with a laughably-low OBP manufacture runs. Is that not accuate? Grow up. QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) Our offense was bad last year and I'd say that the major reason we scored runs was that we were 4th in the AL in HR. There's no denying that. Pods' ability to distract pitchers while on base also played a role.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 04:13 PM) LOL, did you watch the playoffs last year? I'd say for every game but the last one, the Sox were aided by the longball. I never said that they weren't. The difference is that the '05 Sox could score runs in other ways. And apparently you missed the 2000 playoffs where the "prolific" Sox offense couldn't hit a long ball to save their lives. Way to ignore what Pods did prior to the injury last August. He was a major reason that our low-OBP offense scored runs last season.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 04:09 PM) I wouldn't. Garland's lights out, Vazquez has turned a corner, and then I'm taking my chances with 2 of 3 other guys who all have World Series rings. Agreed on Garland. But as for the rest, Vazquez has sucked for most of the season, Contreras and Buehrle have been maddeningly inconsistent (and possibly injured), and Freddy's arm is about to fall off.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) Jon Garland, much mediocrity. Porzio's Whorzio's, much suckitude. Bullpen past Marte, Gordon, and LOOGY, much suckitude. This year's pitching staff is ridiculously better than 2003's. There is no comparison. This year's staff is deeper and better. LOL, based on what? Certainly not productivity... Contreras: 4.09 ERA Garland: 4.37 ERA Buehrle: 4.71 ERA Vazquez: 4.80 ERA Garcia: 5.10 ERA None of these guys are at Loaiza or Colon's level in '03. It's not even close. I'd rather go into the playoffs with the '03 incarnations of Loaiza, Colon, and Buehrle than any three of our current inconsistent/over-the-hill starters.

At this point, it would make more sense to cheer against the team that you have a better chance of over-taking for the WC.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) What? 2000's was mediocre at best even with some career years. Eldred got injured. Baldwin had a miracle first half. Parque was the Game 1 SP in the playoffs for god sake. The staff was definitely no where near "very good." Sirotka- 3.79 era Baldwin- 4.65 era Eldred- 4.58 era Parque- 4.28 era 5th SP- bad Mediocre might even be an overstatement with that rotation I am not a fan of Manuel, but his pitching staffs were never very good. They may have had a few good pitchers, but there was never stability due to huge holes in the rotation. Sorry, I meant to put the "very good" label on the '03 staff (although I'll argue that Sirotka and Foulke were definitely "very good" in 2000). They were certainly a solid staff overall, with the bullpen being the strong point. You could've taken three of those starters into the playoffs and had some success. But let's get this "Manuel didn't have any pitching to work with" crap out of the way. Manuel's staff in 2003 was strong... Loaiza: 2.90 ERA Colon: 3.87 ERA Buehrle: 4.14 ERA Marte: 1.58 ERA Wunsch: 2.75 ERA Gordon: 3.16 ERA Combine that staff with a healthy and productive Frank, Maggs, Carlos, Paulie, and Valentin and you have a team that was arguably better than this year's squad. Yet, those guys only managed to win 86 games. This team has already won 80 and will likely finish with 90-95 wins. Ozzie has definitely gotten more out of this year's squad than Manuel did out of the '03 team.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) Are you implying that this year's team is good at bunting? Because, outside of Pablo Ozuna, and maybe one or two other guys, I think this team is pretty bad at bunting. And I don't put that on the shoulders of the manager -- a major league ballplayer ought to get a bunt down. No, I'm implying that last year's team excelled at it. And that this year's team is still better at it than any of Manuel's teams. How did that power lineup of Frank, Maggs, Konerko, Lee, Valetin, and Crede fare in the 2000 playoffs? You don't win games by sitting back and waiting for the three-run HR. And which manager told Kenny Williams to trade for a base-stealing leadoff hitter? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't Jerry Manuel. That's just flat-out wrong. Manuel had a very good staff in 2000 (Sirotka, Baldwin, Eldred, Parque, Foulke, Wunch) and another solid one in 2003 (Loaiza, Buehrle, Colon, Marte, Wunch, Gordon). Nice try.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) Buddy Ryan had more to do with the Bears winning the Super Bowl than Ditka. Buddy leaves and the rest of the Ditka reign is dissappointment. Agreed about Buddy Ryan, but Ditka still managed to go 14-2, 11-4, and 12-4 after Buddy left town. The main reason that the Bears never repeated was that they couldn't find a replacement for McMahon after the injuries kept him out for long stretches.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 11:53 AM) It's even scarier because a lot of Bears fans STILL think Ditka was a great coach, when in reality he was a pretty bad one. Ditka was certainly no Walsh or Belichick, but I wouldn't call him a "bad" coach. Even after Buddy Ryan took the Eagles HC job and McMahon and Payotn became non-factors, the Bears were still a pretty good team. They were consistently in the playoffs throughout the late '80s and early '90s.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 11:50 AM) When did Manuel ever have a pitching staff anywhere near to what Ozzie had last year? When did Manuel's players ever successfully bunt or steal bases?

I basically agree with this. My major criticism of Ozzie is the way that he throws his players under the bus in public. If he continues to do so, he'll lose this team. Other than that, I support him, even though I sometimes disagree with some of his decisions.