WCSox

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Jan 5, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) f-off. im not saying that fielding % is the only gauge of defensive skills, however from a fielding % comparison they are equivilent. And that means little because it doesn't take into account the fact Uribe's range blows away Cintron's. LOL, that's not accurate at all. If Cintron were to replace Uribe this year, 80% of Soxtalk will be calling for him to be benched by July (just like Uribe).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 12:52 PM) So you'd want to go into 2008 with 2 vets and 3 rookies/2nd year players in the rotation? Yeah that sounds fun. If the Sox are in first place at the All-Star break, I'll gladly go with 2 vets and 3 unprovens in '08 while taking another shot at the WS.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) It's quite simple as to why the Sox would make such a move - it's a negotiation tactic used to devalue a player. It's no surprise that the White Sox would want to retain Crede long term, bad back or not, because he's a pretty good all-around 3Bman. I don't understand how de-valuing a player that you have no intention of re-signing in a good negotiation tactic. If you're not going to re-sign him, the other option is to trade him. And you certainly want to de-value a player that you're trying to shop.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 08:50 AM) Nor, do I want him to spend just to spend. Agreed. Spending just to put butts in the seats didn't work for the Sox in '97 and it's not going to work in '07, either.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 10:36 PM) He was one of KW's better acquisitions, and I wish him all the best in Philly. Absolutely. He was a great big-game pitcher during his tenure in Chi-town. He also did as good as job as could be expected in making adjustments after his sudden loss in velocity this year.

Baseball is one of the few sports where cheating is tolerated to a high degree. If a pitcher scuffs a ball or a hitter corks a bat, they get suspended/fined and it's forgotten. If a golfer is caught cheating in a tournament, he'll likely be blackballed from the PGA tour. And, as was mentioned before, steroid use around the turn of the century was not illegal in baseball. While I completely agree with the moral and ethical outcry on this issue, the bottom line is that many of these alleged steroid-users are the premiere players of our era. Bonds admitted under oath that he used steroids, yet he was a first-ballot HOFer 10 years ago before he appeared to be using. He's also the greatest position player of our generation. Canseco blew the whistled on I-Rod in his book, but is anybody NOT going to vote him into the Hall? I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't inducted on the first ballot. There's also strong suspicion that Clemens used. And he's pretty much universally-loved among fans and writers. As for McGwire, he was a prolific HR hitter and that's pretty much it. One could make the argument that if Sammy doesn't get in, neither should Mac. He's a borderline case. The one thing he has going for him is that he's well-liked among most of the voters.

Awesome. The Scotsman is a rock-solid set-up man.

Buehrle's previous comments about wanting to play for the Cards were very unprofessional. That said, JR's comments about him wearing a Cards had to a Cards WS game (nothing wrong with that, IMO) are childish and serve no purpose but to throw gasoline on the fire. If JR and KW don't want to commit the 5/70 it'll likely take to re-sign Mark, fine. But there's no need to go public with that information. It serves no function but to drive MB's trade value down.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:36 PM) Thank you for stating what my whole argument has been about and what I have been trying to say. A-Rod has not won. Oh, so what about this? QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) The point is that A-Rod is not a team player. Not winning does not equal being a bad team player.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:32 PM) When has Jeter called out a teammate? Jeter is the ultimate professional and he leads by example. In this big circus that is the Yankee clubhouse how many times do you hear negative news about Jeter Jeter lead the Yankees to four championships. A-Rod hasn't. Do you think THAT might have something to do with it? Again, you have yet to produce one concrete example of A-Rod being a bad teammate. Either do so, or zip it.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) Excellent point. If Jeter was this great, classy guy that everyone seems to think he is, why did he not give up the SS position to the best SS in the game and move to 3B himself? Maybe all Jeter cares about is his own legacy???? Nah......Arod is the one with the ego. Yeah riiiigggghhhtttt..... I think that Jeter actually is a pretty classy guy. I'm sure that he has an ego, but think that it's comparatively small to other superstar pro athletes. The A-Rod bashing is so out of control now that his character and sportsmanship is being called into question. Next thing you know, he'll be a bat-corker and a steroid-user. And then he'll be an adulterer and a cokehead. When will the idiocy stop?

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) Have you been watching the same A-Rod I have been watching. Please tell me why there was such a circus in the Yankee clubhouse surrounding A-Rod and do not give me "It's the Yankees" excuse. So, I'll take that as a "no." The Yankees clubhouse was a circus when Giambi and Sheffield were linked to BALCO. It was also a circus when they signed Randy Johnson. As for A-Rod, the media circus had to do with him not playing up to expectations this year, not him being a bad teammate. While I'm not really an A-Rod fan, I have yet to see an example of him being anything other than a professional. He gracefully moved over to 3B when the Yankees traded for him. If that's not being a "team player", I don't know what is. Next time, cite a concrete example when you bad-mouth a player.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) The point is that A-Rod is not a team player. Can you cite an example to back up that statement?

QUOTE(U can putitontheboarrrrd...YES @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) Id take A-rod in a heartbeat if we could get him. Buehrle & Crede might be gone in a year and if it took something like that to get him for 4 years, KW would be foolish to not take that deal. All that being said it's probably a snowballs chance in hell A-rod gets traded anywhere, especially to the sox. Afterall it takes a "no" from him to put the brakes on anything. Methinks that A-Rod is dying to leave NYC, given that the fans and media are treating him like complete crap. If we're down in the dumps in July, I'd strongly consider offering Cashman Buehrle and Crede for him. But I wouldn't even think of moving the former if we're competitive.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:19 PM) Exactly. Yesterday, we were looking at a situation where 4 of our 5 starting pitchers would hit Free Agency within 2 years. Now, 3 of our 5 starting pitchers hit Free Agency within 2 years, and we have 2 additional backup options. If you go up and down our lineup, Podsednik is gone by 07-08 at the latest, Dye probably leaves after 07, Iguchi is a FA after 07, Pierzynski hits FA after 08, Uribe hits FA after 08, Crede hits FA after 08, Thome has an option for 09 We have some pieces we can plug in, like Sweeney and Fields, but if we had 4 of our starters walk for draft picks, and half of our starting lineup walk for draft picks, we would be rebuilding in 2008, 2009, and 2010 without a question. Now we have fewer holes to fill, and I'm fully expecting a few more of those holes to fill sometime soon. I think that KW could've gotten more for Freddy, but I agree that dumping an expensive, aging pitcher who is clearly past his prime for high pitching prospects is the smart thing to do with so many of our players headed to the FA market within two years. This isn't the 1999 "The Kids Can Play" team. Many of these guys are already on the wrong side of 30 and will have to be replaced within the next two years.

I don't want to see Buehrle traded unless we're out of contention in late July.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) I've been a believer in KW since trhe David Wells trade, because it was so anti-Schuler. Wells didn't get back to the playoffs, but in my mind, it was a gutsy move that had the goal of getting us deep into the playoffs. That was so different than what we had seen with Schuler. Since that trade was made, I have given KW the benefit of the doubt because I know that his ulterior motive is to make the team as good as possible for as long as possible. Add to that the fact that he did, in fact, bring us home a WS championship, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt without flying off the handle at each and every that I don't understand at first. +1 Not that Schueler is a good basis for comparison as a GM, but I tend to give KW the benefit of the doubt as well. I wasn't happy with the Carlos/Pods deal, but the payroll that it freed up allowed the Sox to bolster their pitching staff. And Pods was a menace on the bases until the groin injury that August. I'm not thrilled with this deal either, but I'm not going to criticize KW until he gives me a few good reasons to do so.

QUOTE(PK14 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) No: 1. He is a cancer. 2. He is a cheater. 3. He is bad in the OF. 4. We have a DH. Even putting all of that aside, the Aaron HR Chase and all of the media hype would be a massive distraction. That atmosphere be counter-productive.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:43 AM) I used the word "Knew". Now if only an "idiot" would believe that, why has the federal govt not been able to indict Bonds for perjury? He stated under oath that he did not knowingly take steriods. The fed has tried unsuccessfully to indict him for perjury. Indictments almost are automatic in a normal case, you dont even have to abide by the rules of evidence and the defense does not get to refute any claims, and the prosecution does not have to provide any exculpatory evidence. The fact that they cant get an idictment makes it very hard for me to believe that there is all this overwhelming evidence that Bonds knowingly took steriods. I guess you will be applying for a job as an Asst. United States Prosecutor though and will be the one to finally break the case against Bonds? Because as you said only "an idiot" would believe me, so you should be able to easily convince 12 people that they are not idiots? Or do you just hate Bonds and dont care about facts or reality? You don't seem to understand that there's a difference between what can be proven in a court of law and what can be deduced from common sense. It's nearly impossible to prove in a court of law what Barry was thinking, as the prosecution most likely doesn't have ESP. But anybody with a shred of common sense wouldn't buy his bullsh!t "I thought it was flaxseed" argument. Anybody with a shred of common sense would know that a professional athlete who has a personal trainer, a personal chef, and a professional nutritionist at his disposal would actually take the time to know what he's putting in his body. Anybody with a shred of common sense would become suspicious when said nutritionist pleaded guilty to supplying proessional athletes with steroids and said personal trainer would rather spend time in prison rather than answer questions about his multi-millionaire client's alleged steroid use. Anybody with a shred of common sense would interpret a 73-HR season from a player at age 37 as somewhat suspicious, especially when said player had never even had a 50-HR season and was way past his prime. Anybody with a shred of common sense would say that the evidence strongly suggests that Barry Lamar Bonds knowingly took steroids, particularly because he already admitted to using BALCO'S illicit products via grand jury testimony. But, like you said, if you can't proven it in a court of law, it must not be true. The only thing that this case has shown is that it's nearly impossible to prove what somebody was thinking. And the fact that the defendent is most likely paying a key witness to sit in jail and keep his mouth shut makes it even more difficult. Or perhaps they're just heavily-biased, like the 12 people who refused to believe that O.J. could've committed murder, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and a civil trial that found him guilty as all hell? Good argument there, buddy.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:20 AM) Just as it is speculation what Bonds knew about using steroids. Only an idiot or a Barry cheerleader would believe that.

I don't think that he's being spiteful. It's more an issue of him not wanting to over-pay for the Randy Johnsons and A.J. Burnetts out there.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) Where as many times "Manny being Manny" means that he has come down with mystery illness, etc, that prevent him from playing in meaningful games. September 4, 2003 - Manny refuses to pinch hit in a game against Philadelphia, angering manager Grady Little, who benches him the next game. July 27, 2005 - With Trot Nixon out with an injury to his leg, manager Terry Francona approaches Ramirez about playing on what was to be a scheduled day off; Ramírez refuses to play. There are also stories of Manny using Mp3 players in the outfield, failing to run out routine grounders, etc, etc. To me that would cause more clubhouse problems than the media being on Bonds ass. So far I have yet to see any complaints about Bonds the player. Ask any Giants or Pirates fan about Barry half-assing his way to fly and ground balls in LF and they will definitely have stories to share. And apparently you have forgotten that Jeff Kent's comments to SI about what a bad teammate Barry is and A.J.'s comments about everybody walking on eggshells in the Giants clubhouse because of Barry. What goes on in the clubhouse affects what goes on during the game. I never said that Manny was an angel. Far from it. But at least he's still able to stay healthy and will play at a high level for a few more years. Bonds is a one-year rent-a-player whose poisonous attitude AND excessive media attention from his HR chase will sink clubhouse chemistry. Barry is barely capable of staying healthy and chasing down a fly ball at this point in his career. I'd rather have a weirdo like Manny who is still highly-productive and isn't a major injury-risk. That said, I don't really want him on the Sox anyway.

Well, I'm almost positive now that '07 is Buehrle's last season here. It doesn't even sound like they're going to try at this point. Hopefully B-Mac and one of the 'specs are ready to put up quality starts in '08, because I have little confidence that Vazquez will be anything more than a #4 and wonder how much longer Jose's body will hold up after years and years of mis-use in Cuba.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) saw a few things about Bonds to the Cards, I guess that would make the most sense. He would have to hobble around LF for one more year, but those fans are incredibly supportive of the Cards players. It's like a baseball rejuvination machine out there. I could see them embracing him and the chase. (just for source purposes, si.com had something mentioned i believe) Cards fans are incredibly supportive of their players, but I'm not sure that they'd embrace Bonds. Especially after the suspicion about McGwire's steroid use. And I'm not sure that Prince Albert would enjoy playing second-fiddle to Barry's home-run chase.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) I dont get your argument about being a cancer etc, because the same has been said about Manram. Manram doesn't have his own private room in the clubhouse, outfitted with a big-screen TV and a La-Z-Boy chair. How well do you think that would go over in a clubhouse where the team's captain declined to wear the letter "C" on his jersey because he doesn't want to come off as more important than his teammates? Manram also doesn't get into shoving matches with his teammates in the dugout. And do you think that the Aaron Home Run Chase (and the massive media hype that goes along with it) might be just a wee bit of a distraction to a team that's trying to get back into the playoffs? And Bonds I don't see Bonds signing for less than $15 million. That said, I don't really want Manram on the South Side, either. The Sox need starting pitching.