WCSox

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 23, 2006 -> 10:08 PM) (btw LUC is 34k/yr... not much better than 40) Holy crap! Man, I can't imagine what tuition will be like when my kids go off to college. I might have to send them to community college for two years in order for it to be affordable!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) But the contrary problem is that too many people believe that because they find something to be morally wrong, the law should make sure that no one has the right to do whatever action is being considered. Our society has certain standards of public decency that are (usually) protected by law. I believe that allowing family and friends peace when they bury their dead falls into that category. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:17 AM) And right there, we have in essence the defining polarity on which the current political parties are being sent to the extremes. The religious conservatives trying to exert their moral high ground on the nation by way of law; and the liberal democrats trying to protect everyone from themselves. The interesting turn here, to me, is that the Dems seem to me to not be moving much further left. But the conservative Christian movement is tearing the GOP in two, trying to drag it even further right (having already gone pretty far that way). And while on the surface, and in the short term, that duality (between traditional small government Republicans and religious extremists) would seem to favor the Dems... in the long run, that remaining NON-extremist element of the GOP seems to be the closest sub-group to the middle. And that may end up helping them, if either the Christian Coalition folks break off into a new party, or it goes the other way around. You make an interesting comparison, although I don't believe that the moral component of this particular issue has anything to do with religious conservatives vs. secular liberals. Leaving grieving family and friends in peace while they bury their dead is the choice that just about any decent human being would make. IMO, it's not very far-removed from other universally-accepted rules of society such as "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal." I agree that the Republicans have moved to the right, but disagree that the Dems are not moving towards the left. Howard Dean's representation of the party certainly suggests that it is. The financial backing of Ned Lamont by Soros and Streisand, in an attempt to overthrow a former Dem VP candidate because he supports the Iraq War, is further evidence.

QUOTE(minors @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 09:58 AM) It is and that is the whole point of this thread. These people can't not consider themselves people of god when they are doing as something as low as they are doing. The problem is that too many people believe that because the law gives them a legal right to do something, they have some sort of moral justification for exercising that right.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) Or run and can barely walk. I'll take a half season of Sandy and his bad knees over Widger, who does an inferior job of calling games and wasn't a long-term prospect anyway.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 09:26 AM) I love how my pointing out of Cheney's politicizing of this mess got 0 responses and the Kerry one got 3. You can turn on MSNBC or any of the major network news programs tonight for your offsetting dose of Cheney-bashing.

There should be laws against people who protest at funerals. Pissing on somebody's grave in front of their grieving family and friends is about as low as it gets.

I can't comment on Widger's game preparation (or lack thereof), but I do know that Sandy has always done a pretty good job of calling games. He can't hit anymore, but it's not like Widger was tearing the cover off of the ball either.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 01:47 PM) I just have a feeling not much is out there unless you give up some serious talent, and Kenny is basically going to tell the troops, "I built a champion, now start acting like it." Well-said.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 12:33 PM) This is true, for sure, but filling a hole or two wouldn't hurt either. Won't "magically" turn them into winners, but obtaining a quality backup catcher and setup man would make a lot of sense. Agreed about the setup man. That will be helpful, but it's not going to make a huge difference... especially if Garcia, Vazquez, and Buehrle keep giving up five- and six-run innings.

I'm getting sick of hearing this. Kenny "making a move" isn't going to magically turn these guys back into winners. This is especially true regarding starting pitching, where it would be very difficult for KW to trade for ONE elite starter, much less make up for the consistently-bad outings of both Garcia and Vazquez and the occasionally-bad outings of Garland and Buehrle. The current roster simply needs to play better baseball. That's the only way they'll make the playoffs.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 12:10 PM) You keep using a 2000 benchmark that didn't exist for the current government because they didn't exist. I don't recall using 2000 as any sort of "benchmark", except to say that the U.N. mandated that Hezbollah disarm back then. It's obviously more of the U.N.'s responsibility to enforce that decree, but that doesn't mean that the current administration can justifiably sit around with their thumbs up their asses. Of course isn't not simple, but it's necessary if Lebanon doesn't want to end up a rogue state like Syria or Iran. Hezbollah isn't going to disarm via peaceful negotiations from Beirut, so we can throw that option out the window. The short-term goal is to get them to stop firing missiles at Israel via some sort of a cease-fire. But the long-term goal would be to flush them out - and the members of the U.N. are going to have to help. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 01:07 PM) Just to be clear... I in no way was defending Arafat, who was at best a thug with a lot less influence than he claimed to have, and at worst was a barbarous fiend. I didn't think that you were. To be clear on my end, I'm not trying to imply that Israel is beyond reproach. A (Palestinian) friend of mine grew up literally two blocks from Arafat's compound and I've heard many less-than-flattering (to put it nicely) stories about the Israeli police. As was mentioned earlier, neither side is willing to give up Jerusalem and that's why the 2000 offer from Barak and the Saudi proposal a year later were rejected. I wish that they'd just divide the freaking city in half and be done with it.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 10:09 AM) BTW: You keep insinuating that there is continuity between the Lebanese government of 2000 and the Lebanese government of 2006. Maybe you missed the Cedar Revolution last year that up until last week was held up as a sign of progress in our goal to "spread democracy" across the region. Um, no I haven't. The fact remains that the current Lebanese regime is throwing away its chance to condemn Hezbollah and actually embrace the concept of democracy. Maybe you missed the point of democracy and Islamic terrorism being incompatible. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) I've brought this up before, but I think it again bears mentioning... In late 2001, Saudi Arabia, after conferring with nations of the Arab League, made a simple offer to Israel - give back the lands taken in the wars of 1968 and 1973 (Golan Heights, Gaza Strip, part of the Sinai I think, and some other areas), for the Palestinians to occupy, and all nations of the Arab League will recognize your existence AND open up to economic relations. Now, obviously, the underlying issues are much more complex. But the offer appeared genuine, and if all those nations acknowledged Israel, then things would at least have a framework for dramatic improvement. Israel turned it down. Arafat turned down Barak's offer to turn something like 80% of the West Bank and Gaza into a Palestinian state the year before.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 09:12 AM) Thanks to the elections though, Hezbollah is a major part of the government in that country. They also provided some non-trivial amount of the country's public services. At some level, doesn't that fact wind up almost requiring him to take their side, because without their support, his government may very well fall? Hezbollah needs to be outlawed as a political party and driven out of the country. Of course, that would require a major government shake-up, but it's necessary in the long run. Like I said before, the Lebanese have an important decision to make and, unfortunately, the PM's comments last night indicate that they're going to make the wrong one. Nor can you harbor and enable a terrorist militia and expect to live in peace. There needs to be some sort of multilateral show of force to drive Hezbollah out of Lebanon. The U.N. can supply peace-keeping troops and the member nations can supply the necessary additional forces.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 08:47 AM) International Forces have worked so well previously in other parts of the world. Agreed, but it would be even worse for the U.S. military to get directly involved in this. This is a great time for the U.N. to show that it's still capable of something more than delivering food and medicine.

No, we're screwed. Time to trade Buehrle, Vazquez, and Jenks to the Giants for prospects.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 08:53 AM) Let it die, man. You aren't seeing my argument. That was from 3 days ago. You throw out a personal attack and then tell me to "let it die" when I respond. Um, sorry, it doesn't work that way. Agreed.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 04:55 PM) You didn't ace logic class, did you? You didn't read Soxtalk's rules of conduct, did you? There are plenty of baseball sites where you can get away with acting like an obnoxious 13-year-old, but this isn't one of them. The risk of declining skills for a power pitcher in his 30's vs. that of a finesse pitcher of the same age is very different. I thought that everyone knew that, but apparently not. Therefore, your comparison of Freddy to Glavine and Pedro is a poor one.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 11:57 PM) No more so than it is a government's responsibility to disarm an unregulated militia five years before being elected. Didn't the UN mandate that Hezbollah disarm after Israel pulled out six years ago? Great job of enforcing that, guys. Sadly, that's typical of the UN these days. Did you see Lebanon's PM on Larry King last night? According to him, Hezbollah is merely a "resistance group", while the Israelis are "occupiers." That was a great opportunity for him to call out both sides and ask the international community to pressure both sides for peace (and possibly ridding his country of Hezbollah). Instead, he chose to blame Israel, despite the fact that his own country is harboring a terrorist army.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 05:02 PM) They also realize how pisspoor the NL is going to be for about the next year or two. Leagues don't go from spiffty to great overnight. Freddy, with his 85-88 MPH fastball, would be a serviceable and durable starting pitcher in the NL, ballpark be damned, and serviceable starting pitching is at a premium(ask tightwad Beane why he spent $7 mill a year on Loaiza). The durability is great, and that's pretty much obvious. So, worst case scenario for Philly, they get a year and a half of serviceable starting from Garcia, and he's gone, with or without other compensation. A pitcher with diminished skills in the AL will have the same diminished skills in the NL. Freddy may still be able to mow down pitchers, but he'll still be shelled when he faces the 3/4/5 NL hitters. Neither the Phillies or Mets are going to want Freddy badly enough to give anything significant back in return. The only reason that the Phillies would want to unload Gordon would be to dump salary, so picking up Freddy's contract wouldn't make much sense in that regard.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 02:20 PM) Well, did Israel make that offer before or after they started bombing the spiff out of Beirut? So, it's Israel's responsibility to keep terrorists out of neighboring nations?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:22 PM) no, its not the truth. As pointed out above, Lebanon has only been its own government for about a year, and they are weak. they do not have the power to remove Hezbollah at will. But they have made strides towards disarming hezbollah that even a year ago would have been unthinkable. Um, yes it is the truth. Agreed that the Lebanese army can't deal with Hezbollah itself (duh), which is why they need to work with a more powerful military. The U.N. would be ideal from a political perspective. Working with the Israelis behind the scenes would also be helpful.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 12:26 PM) That's a fine thing to write while sitting here in the U.S. watching the mess. And it's the truth, whether the 500,000 refugees want to ackowledge it or not. I'm sure that the Lebanese are pissed as hell at Israel, and they have the right to be. But they should be even more pissed at their own government for harboring the terrorist army that provoked the attack in the first place.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 10:08 AM) Given that the Israeli bombings have targeted the Lebanese army just as much as they've targeted Hezbollah, this is simply not going to happen. Not a chance in Hell. You want someone other than the Israelis to work to dismantle Hezbollah, your ONLY option is going to be some sort of international force. There's just no one else. Remember this simple fact; bombing people does not make them like you. Israeli jets bombing the Hell out of Lebanon don't make the Lebanese army go "Yeah, let's go help those guys out". Remember this simple fact: The Israelis pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 and the Lebanese government responded by enabling Hezbollah to amass their forces near the Israeli border. Lebanon has a decision to make: They can either join the moderate states who may not like Israel, but don't want to wipe them off the face of the earth or they can join the terrorist states. If they want to take the former route and be free of Syria's strangehold, they have to rid their country of Hezbollah. That would give them and Israel a common enemy and the chance to work together for peace. It would also potentially give them America's financial and military support.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 07:50 AM) But I do think you are getting at a major issue in this conflict - Israel continues to lose its moral high ground. If they invade Lebanon, seize new territory, and continue the bombardment of non-military targets (which some of it has been), soon they will be left with only the U.S. backing them. And even that may not last forever. Given that Lebanon has basically let Hezbollah take over the southern part of their country, import arms from Syria, and launch attacks on Israel, I don't see how Israel is losing the moral high ground. Lebanon is enabling Hezbollah. What Israel needs to do is to send ground troops into southern Lebanon, eliminate as much of Hezbollah's weapons/soldiers as possible, and (most importantly) work with the Lebanese army to keep them out. It's imperative that Lebanon work with Israel to flush out Hezbollah.

Something tells me that demoting a mentally-fragile starter to long-relief isn't going to make him more effective. And I'm not convinced that B-Mac would adjust to the rotation seamlessly.