WCSox

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:53 PM) 1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle. 1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season 1991 - The Beginning to something great. Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him. The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line. Another way to look at it is that Beckham had more initial success than Ventura, with less minor-league experience to boot. And you're missing the overarching point of players taking multiple years to develop into proficient hitters. The trajectory isn't always in a straight line a la Ventura. Crede posted an OPS+ of 113 back in 2002 and didn't eclipse 100 again until 2006. Your "you gotta draw the line" argument is also based on a measly two months of data and the fact that Vizquel (who is posting even worse numbers than Beckham, believe it or not) would be replacing him in the lineup. You need to patient with young players.

Robin Ventura is a nice example... 1989: 58 PA, OPS+ 57, SLG .244 1990: 565 PA, OPS+ 83, SLG .318 1991: 705 PA, OPS+ 126, SLG .442

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 09:05 PM) I understand that, but the point remains the same. You don't produce in the big leagues, you don't get to play in the big leagues. This is a great test to see how they rebound. Not true. LOTS of players have taken their lumps in the big leagues. Especially guys who are playing on crappy teams that have no viable replacements and little chance of making the playoffs. Beckham has hit in the bigs over the course of (more or less) a full season. He's not some unknown from A-ball prospect. And, frankly, he's not going to get better at hitting major-league pitching by practicing against career minor-league AAA pitchers with mediocre stuff.

QUOTE (since56 @ May 29, 2010 -> 04:42 AM) The bigs are not a developemental league. Either he gets it going for real now or I'd rather see Vizquel at short and Ramirez at second. If Beckham can get his average over 250 maybe put vizquel at 3rd and make Teahan utility or trade him for a prospect. Teahan, Ramirez, Beckham, what an infield. Average at best defensivesly and can't hit the floor if they fell out of bed. Whew are they bad! Sox fan forever and always will be., but lets not candy coat the truth. Teams are constantly developing young talent in the bigs. For example, we did this in '07 with Danks and Floyd. In the case of Beckham, I don't see the point in sending him down. Replacing him with Vizquel in the lineup would be a step backwards, as I'm pretty sure that Beckham's OPS is going to be higher than Vizquel's at the end of September. Also, sending Beckham down to face minor-league pitching isn't going to help him hit major-league pitching. It's nice to see Beckham respond positively to adversity. He certainly has the mental makeup to be successful in the bigs.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 28, 2010 -> 07:02 PM) I never said he can't close, he probably could. It's the Carlos Marmol theory: the biggest out of the game aren't always in the 9th inning and Thornton being one of the most dominant relievers in the game needs to be in the game to get those most paramount outs. Basically: you can't save your best reliever for the 9th when he's needed earlier in the game to make sure you still have the lead come the 9th. Pretty much. Having Thornton available against those though lefties late in the game is a major plus as well.

QUOTE (scenario @ May 27, 2010 -> 09:15 PM) "West is always promoting something. His country music CD. His line of umpiring gear." West Vest Equipment http://www.umpirejoewest.com/products.htm

I hope that Passan was being sarcastic here. Because that would be really sad. The comparison with Ed Hochuli is a good one. Hochuli has blown a couple of high-profile calls in recent years and, even after admitting fault, has taken the high road when slammed by the wronged head coach and the press. Hochuli respects the game and its players and, as a result, the respect is given back to him. Joe West could learn A LOT from Ed Hochuli. Anyway, it's nice to see that MLB is coming down on this douche.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2010 -> 03:51 PM) Depends on if you're in a pennant race or not. And you'd have about 30,000 angry fans to deal with somehwo. Not if you do it on the road. I think that threatening to do so would be the best course of action. It would certainly force MLB to deal with the issue.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ May 27, 2010 -> 03:44 PM) No manager would do that. MLB would fine the team and manager into oblivion. If an organization truly felt and had evidence that an umpire was repeatedly biasing calls again them and MLB was ignoring their accusations, it would be a possibility. One game out of 162 is a small price to pay for forcing a corrupt umpire out of the game.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ May 27, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) Hopefully this Fat Ass loses his job. He's consistently one of the worst umpires in the game. It's UNBELIEVABLE that he is still on the MLB payroll. All it would take is one manager forfeiting a game when West was behind the plate. Who do you think MLB would side with, Joe West or the tens of thousands of angry fans who don't get to see the game that they paid for?

QUOTE (docsox24 @ May 27, 2010 -> 11:56 AM) bobby is still the closer He'll be given a relatively long leash, especially if this team continues to play sub-.500 ball. If he finds his command a couple weeks from now, somebody desperate for a closer might offer to pick up the rest of his contract two months from now. And given how much slack Ozzie cut JD last year, I imagine that Bobby will receive similar treatment.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2010 -> 07:46 AM) Heck...I think there's a fair number of pitchers, especially in bullpens, who can get by throwing almost entirely 95-97 mph fastballs with the occasional offspeed pitch that doesn't even have to be a strike...if they have control of the fastball. Yeah, guys like Kyle Farnsworth and Bobby Howry come to mind.

QUOTE (hogan873 @ May 27, 2010 -> 06:48 AM) And I think this is his big problem. I've said it before...he was a better pitcher when he threw 98 mph fastballs and that devastating curve. Heck, he was devastating when he threw a 95-97 mph fastball and could throw the hook for strikes. That hook made him a stud, and his current inability to throw anything offspeed over the plate is making him a dud.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 26, 2010 -> 04:33 PM) I disagree. When it really comes down to it the only thing that matters is winning. Granted if Bobby keeps up his performances the odds are that he will lose more games. I couldn't care less about the stats he puts up as long as they win. I know if had this discussion about starting pitchers as well but all I care about is the win. It's like managing people. Do you give your group a goal and then micromanage them and check on the progress hourly or do you let them do what they need to do to accomplish the goal. I for one don't care how they do it as long as the job gets done. Again, if he starts losing the games the situation changes. QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 26, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) When that volcano starts rumbling and spewing smoke do you maybe think about making your move or do you wait until it incinerates your home?

Santos has barely been pitching for a year. Regardless of his head, I don't think that his arm is conditioned to handle the load right now.

Ozzie might want to consider giving Putz a shot. He used to be pretty good at it and, at the very least, he can't be as bad as Bobby is now.

If I'm Kenny Williams and I see Joe West messing with my team in the future, I just might casually bring up the possibility of forfeiting games where he's behind the plate. That might prompt MLB to do something about him.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 26, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) I'm exaggerating (a little). I just can't wait to read Bobby's post-game comments. You know he's going to spin today's debacle as just some flukish occurrence and that he ultimately got the save. All he's done is make excuses for his below average performance the last years and two months. Agreed. He's also ignored the organization's multiple requests to slim down and stay in shape, to the point where Kenny called him out in the press late last year. Regardless of Bobby's price tag, I'm glad that he'll be gone next year. No matter how talented, players with that attitude will fail you in the end.

If Peavy indeed does have a tired arm, put him on the 15-day DL. If there is nothing physically wrong with him, keep running him out there until he figures it out.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 26, 2010 -> 01:37 PM) Then Bobby's got the least intimidating 97-98 MPH FB I've seen this year. Either way, he sucks. I'd rather have '03 Billy Koch or '05 Shingo. I wouldn't. And that's saying a lot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2010 -> 06:41 AM) I wonder if, once June 1 rolls around, it might not make sense to give Peavy a 15 day "Tired arm" DL trip and give Hudson a few starts. ^^^

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 26, 2010 -> 10:03 AM) Josh Beckett has a 4.22 ERA in the American League (4.05 coming into this year) and people won't shut the f*** up about how great he is. Winning two WS and being an absolute bad-ass in both of those post-season series will do that to one's reputation. But I agree in general. Dude's injury-prone and wildly-erratic at times.

QUOTE (Lillian @ May 26, 2010 -> 09:40 AM) I'm the first to admit that I was excited when the Sox acquired Peavy. However, that doesn't change my dissatisfaction with Peavy and his contract, now that I've seen what we have with him. Yes, I understand that Danks is reluctant to extend his contract, but one way or another the Peavy contract will greatly inhibit flexibility with the payroll. Peavy has pitched for the Sox for the equivalent of less than half a season, and you're already predicting that he'll be a useless financial albatross. Being disappointed with a small sample size is understandable, but extrapolating a doom-and-gloom scenario based on that sample size makes little sense to me.

QUOTE (Lillian @ May 26, 2010 -> 05:56 AM) That's all a shame because this guy will be earning an "Ace's" salary for the next 3 years, and I don't think he'll ever be the Ace of the staff. Mark Buehrle is getting paid an ace's salary and has been almost as bad this year. Where's the indignant outrage over his performance? Peavy won a Cy Young 2 1/2 years ago and was lights-out for us last year. So I don't see where the excessive pessimism is coming from. If you're a GM, you're looking for a veteran starter to help put your team over the top, Jake Peavy is available, your owner gives you the green light, and all that the other team wants in return is Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and a couple mediocre prospects, you do that freaking deal. If you don't, you're not doing your job. With PK and AJ coming off the books this year and MB and Linebrink coming off the books next year, available funds to re-sign Danks aren't the problem. The problem is that Danks isn't interested in signing a contract extension. In other words, Jake Peavy isn't going to cost us a chance at extending Danks.

QUOTE (hogan873 @ May 26, 2010 -> 04:19 AM) I'm starting to feel that the Sox should look to trade Peavy, but I don't see that happening because of his performance so far and his contract. KW won't trade him away for nothing, and I don't see any teams giving much up for him at this point. But, imagine the salary relief! Exactly. The Sox are stuck with Peavy right now. In light of his performance this year, nobody's going to trade for that contract. And even if he was dealing like Halladay, I think that Kenny considers Peavy a long-term project and wouldn't be interested in moving him.