Lillian

It is possible that they did indeed collude, as you suspect. If so, that is yet another scenario which would net the same result of causing most fans to be disgruntled, now having to add crooked to the list of disparaging adjectives to describe ownership and the front office. Being disingenuous, inept and obtuse is bad enough. Crooked would simply be the last straw. It took almost a century to cleanse the legacy of the Black Sox, and this would just harken back to all of that infamous history. I'm still hoping that there is some outcome here that would exonerate ownership and the front office. I'm afraid that a scenario which includes collusion would fall far short of doing that. I hope that it's not true, but your insightful suspicion would explain why the Sox would not now be pursuing Harper. The best outcome is the Sox signing Harper. That seems to be the only way to fix this mess.

This analysis seems plausible, with the one exception being the acquisition of Jay and Alonso. That would have to be considered an awfully expensive way to sell their "head fake". That one factor aside however, you could be onto something.

The Phillies' interest is not in question. However, at what price and whether, or not, there is a mutual interest on Harper's side, is quite another issue.

Almost. As soon as Harper signs elsewhere and if we learn that the Sox didn't make a reasonable offer, I will believe that ownership and the front office are indeed dishonest, inept and obtuse. The burden of proof is on them, but they still have a chance to redeem themselves.

I plead guilty. I actually predicted it. Call me naive and foolish. I just can't accept that this organization is really that dishonest, inept and obtuse.

And finally, one more take; If they can't redeem themselves through addition, maybe they should consider subtraction. Where is the accountability? If this off season results in nothing more than Jay, Alonso, Colome, Herrera, McCann, Nova, Guyer and Santana, after all that bravado about going after Machado and, or Harper, someone's "head should roll". How much money could they save by firing Hahn, or Williams? Maybe they could use that money to afford a real significant asset, if ownership seems so hard pressed to come up with the big bucks. Seeing some real accountability might reassure the fan base that this team is not the 'clown show,' as it is currently being characterized. I understand that it's probably Reinsdorf's fault, more than his front office, however no one can fire him, so the next best thing might be to fire one of those inept failures. Well, I'm done. That felt good. I'm all better now. Carry on.

Put another way; How many fans would be upset, or disillusioned because they gave $350 million of the owners money to Bryce Harper? "Boy, I'm just done with this stupid organization. Can you believe that they just over paid to sign Bryce Harper to a 10 year deal? I'm just done with this team"...When you view with that perspective, it's not hard to see why it makes sense. No one is going to lose interest, be upset, or spend less time and money on the Sox, because they over spent the owner's money.

Maybe Harper is not worth $350 million. Maybe he isn't worth more than Machado got. Maybe he isn't worth as much as Machado got. Maybe even Machado isn't worth what Machado got. And maybe none of these free agents are worth what they get. The point is that this team is now an embarrassment and the few fans it had, in the same city as the widely adored "Cubbies," are ready to abandon the South Side. The people in the front office and ownership have botched this off season so badly, that they desperately need to do something to redeem themselves. The question is; Is there any other plausible move, which they could make this season, other than signing Harper, that would approach redemption, in the eyes of their fans? Maybe the answer to that question will help us all to determine what Bryce Harper is "worth".

In addition to the previously discussed intangible benefits of acquiring Harper, perhaps we should include the face saving and redeeming factors, for the terribly inept way that the Machado negotiations, and follow up spin, were handled. That might justify the $40 million premium, over your personal evaluation of his worth.

I agree. The comparison between the two, and how they fit the organization, is no longer relevant. This is also about damage control. If we think that we needed to acquire one of these players, before this fiasco, we really do now. All of those intangibles, which we discussed ad nauseam, are now magnified by the fan "revolt," as evidenced by this forum and social media.

So, you are not in favor of acquiring him, at $350 million, right? At what cost would you be in favor?

Returning to the discussion of Harper and the Sox: If it is true that he does not want to play in Philly, the Sox should definitely have a realistic chance. I still can't believe that they are not interested. It's clear that Boras wants to secure a record contract for his client and, at the least, beat the deal his nemesis, Lozano got for Machado. I'm going to go out on a limb and prognosticate, which is something I rarely do. I think he signs with the Sox for 10 years, $350 Million, with an opt out, after year 5. That should be enough to entice him to the South Side, instead of Philadelphia. Now, if they offer that, but some other team offers the same, or more, and he decides to go elsewhere, I won't fault the organization and I won't be heartbroken. I would have serious reservations about any offers greater than that amount, or with opt outs, in the early years. In other words, I'd love to see the Sox get him, but not at any price. I'd like to add that the spin being spun, by Hahn, regarding "pride over having a seat at the table" is very ill-advised. Why in the world would you even suggest that such a place of prominence was ever in question? "We are one of the oldest and most respected franchises in baseball, in one of the greatest cities in the world, with a very knowledgeable and loyal fan base. We will always be interested in acquiring premium talent, and we will continue to pursue future opportunities". That is the way to speak about our beloved Chicago White Sox. I detest this groveling, inferior, self effacing approach. It's not only infuriating, it's embarrassing.

I expect that may indeed happen. however Avi is going to be a free agent, at the end of the season, and probably was not going to be resigned, with all of the very promising outfield prospects, in the system.

I agree that Basabe is a better prospect than Gonzalez, but he is further away, especially now that he has lost significant playing time, for this season. Of course, Robert is the ultimate top candidate for CF, but he is too young and too raw, to expect until 2021, unless he just races through the system.

It's not their fault, so I certainly hope Sox fans will not take out their frustration on Jay and Alonso. They seem like really good guys, probably with better character than the other amigo, in their little 305 club. However, They don't fit this team's needs, unless Harper is signed and the rebuild is jump started. The playing time needs to go to potential future pieces. The sooner that they can be removed from the roster, the better. In particular, I'd like to see Palka get some reps at first base. He could be a fit there, if Abreu is not extended. There is probably no rush to try one of the prospects in center, but Gonzalez may push that issue, sometime this season. In the meantime, I still have hope that Engel will figure out how to get on base enough to make him serviceable. Jay's presence kind of precludes that.

Yes, and as I keep arguing, the incentive of playing for another contract helps to keep the player motivated. Player opt outs are good for ownership, as long as they fit the team's time line for contention. 5 years would be fine for these circumstances.

Despite some of our efforts to treat each of these player negotiations independently, there are some posters here who continue to conflate what happened in the negotiations with the Machado camp, precisely with what we should expect in negotiations with Harper. I continue to believe that that is not fair, or rational. They are two completely different players and should be viewed as such.

Putting aside, for a moment, the vesting additional money, how much could he have earned, based upon the performance based incentives?

If all of this pessimism regarding the willingness of ownership to spend what it would take, is based upon the failure to sign Machado, it would be worth remembering that they made a very respectable offer and simply got out maneuvered, more than they got out bid. I would guess that if they could now change their offer to what Manny received, in order to land him, that they would.

Perhaps the end of steroid use began to have its effect.

I must admit that I admire your loyalty. If I believed what you are asserting, I would be done with this team. In fact, if what you are saying turns out to be true, I think it may be time to find a new team. It wouldn't be easy, after rooting for them since 1953, but I would try. So what keeps you a Sox fan?

Sure, the octogenarian business mogul really preferred the "I'm not Johnny Hustle" brash young man, with the tattoos, braided hair and shirtless under his sport coat attire, to Bryce Harper. OK, if you believe that. I'm not buying it. And you don't think that Mr. Reinsdorf doesn't realize how much more value Harper has with his intangibles?

Here is a portion of what is being reported by 670 The Score, regarding the Sox "being out on Harper": The White Sox feel strongly about their young outfielders in the farm system such as Eloy Jimenez, Luis Robert, Micker Adolfo and Luis Basabe. The White Sox haven't ruled out adding another veteran outfielder in a move on the free-agent or trade market for 2019 as a bridge to the future. Yeah, like they weren't high on those guys, when they met with Harper, and before Basabe broke his hand. That just doesn't ring true.

Wasn't the "increase" in reference to the extra potential years and performance based incentives, which made their final proposal potentially worth $320 Million?

This just gets more bizarre, every moment. Why would they make such a declaration? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say; "We don't comment regarding potential acquisitions". They might even add; "We made the mistake of doing that, in the case of Manny Machado, but going forward, we will not discuss our intentions." Perhaps they are sending a message to Boras, to counter what is likely the perceived notion that they are now desperate to land the one remaining "whale".