Lillian

Despite some of our efforts to treat each of these player negotiations independently, there are some posters here who continue to conflate what happened in the negotiations with the Machado camp, precisely with what we should expect in negotiations with Harper. I continue to believe that that is not fair, or rational. They are two completely different players and should be viewed as such.

Putting aside, for a moment, the vesting additional money, how much could he have earned, based upon the performance based incentives?

If all of this pessimism regarding the willingness of ownership to spend what it would take, is based upon the failure to sign Machado, it would be worth remembering that they made a very respectable offer and simply got out maneuvered, more than they got out bid. I would guess that if they could now change their offer to what Manny received, in order to land him, that they would.

Perhaps the end of steroid use began to have its effect.

I must admit that I admire your loyalty. If I believed what you are asserting, I would be done with this team. In fact, if what you are saying turns out to be true, I think it may be time to find a new team. It wouldn't be easy, after rooting for them since 1953, but I would try. So what keeps you a Sox fan?

Sure, the octogenarian business mogul really preferred the "I'm not Johnny Hustle" brash young man, with the tattoos, braided hair and shirtless under his sport coat attire, to Bryce Harper. OK, if you believe that. I'm not buying it. And you don't think that Mr. Reinsdorf doesn't realize how much more value Harper has with his intangibles?

Here is a portion of what is being reported by 670 The Score, regarding the Sox "being out on Harper": The White Sox feel strongly about their young outfielders in the farm system such as Eloy Jimenez, Luis Robert, Micker Adolfo and Luis Basabe. The White Sox haven't ruled out adding another veteran outfielder in a move on the free-agent or trade market for 2019 as a bridge to the future. Yeah, like they weren't high on those guys, when they met with Harper, and before Basabe broke his hand. That just doesn't ring true.

Wasn't the "increase" in reference to the extra potential years and performance based incentives, which made their final proposal potentially worth $320 Million?

This just gets more bizarre, every moment. Why would they make such a declaration? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say; "We don't comment regarding potential acquisitions". They might even add; "We made the mistake of doing that, in the case of Manny Machado, but going forward, we will not discuss our intentions." Perhaps they are sending a message to Boras, to counter what is likely the perceived notion that they are now desperate to land the one remaining "whale".

I did not know, or at least remember the incident. I just researched it and found this discussion with Jim Piersall, in an interview he gave on this site.: The night of September 17, 1983, Jerry Reinsdorf was in the locker room during the clinching celebration, being interviewed by ‘Hawk’ Harrelson when he unleashed his broadside at you and Harry. I don’t know if you were watching it at the time but what was your reaction? (Author’s Note: Reinsdorf stated ‘wherever you’re at, Harry and Jimmy, eat your hearts out. I hope people realize what scum you are.’ Harrelson was momentarily silenced due to the unexpectedness of it. The comment was shown live on both SportsVision and Superstation WGN-TV which picked up SportsVision programming in the 9th inning of the Sox win over Seattle.)

You may be right, but remember what Yogi Berra said; "it ain't over, till it's over". I'm still withholding my judgement.

Perhaps, if they believe that it's just a few fanatical Sox fans. However, if they sense that the anger is more widely felt, they can't be so cavalierly unmoved. Moreover, J. R. has always been a baseball fan, more than a basketball fan. Don't you believe that he would really like to win another championship, with a stadium full of loyal Sox fans? If we don't believe that, then we need to find a new team, for which to cheer.

If they don't sense the fan base outrage, they are even more out of touch with reality than some of you have argued. I find that notion to be very implausible. They have to know and one would assume that they have to care.

In assessing Harper's value, here is something to note: His career stats versus RHP: AVG .288 OBP .402 SLG .543 OPS .944 Keep in mind that there aren't many good southpaw starters in the AL, especially in our Division. Those numbers would look awfully good, even if he has to become a first baseman, or DH at some point.

Tim is sometimes hard to understand, but when what he says can be heard and understood, he can be quite eloquent. This was one of his better moments. I enjoyed the boat metaphor. I like his confidence and his team spirit.

Thank you. However, you only think that because you're not hysterical and mired in a fit of rage and anger. Stay cool and stay tuned. Hey, do we get some sort of medal for loyalty to what most here are convinced is a train wreck of an organization?

Regardless of what Hahn might say, it seems very implausible that they would not attempt to sign their other major targeted acquisition. The market seems to be favoring the buyers and with the Phillies now being about the only other team in the Harper sweepstakes, why wouldn't they? I can't imagine that they anticipated such a lack of suitors and if they originally were determined to try to get both, what justification would they now have for passing on the one remaining? It just wouldn't make any sense. That said, as patient as I have been, I too will lose all confidence in this organization if they do not make a concerted effort to sign Harper. If they had never espoused an interest in these two young free agents, I could accept that, but after all of that bluster and bravado, it would just be completely inexcusable. Fortunately, that very odd rationale, which Hahn provided, regarding no longer being in on the Harper negotiations, because they don't want to drive up the cost for the Phillies, suggests to me that he was not being forthright. The only way I can explain that comment is to attribute it to an attempt to conceal their true intentions. Otherwise, it would have to be considered one of the dumbest comments that Hahn has ever made. Why in the world would they want the Phillies to get Harper, at a better price? And finally, as we all know, delivering on Harper is now more important for retaining the fan base, than it was when all of this started. At this point, what Hahn, the twitter posters, or any of us care to postulate, or speculate, is less meaningful than the simple logic. One can only imagine how much pressure there is to get a deal done for Harper. Wouldn't you love to be privy to the internal communications of this front office? It's probably more interesting now, than it has been, at any point in the off season. It probably looks more like a war room, assessing damage control, after a major attack.

Not only would we have had him for his prime, but it would have helped to keep him motivated, which is something that I have often emphasized. To me, opt outs are a potentially positive component, for ownership, of these long term contracts.

I'm saying whether, or not, I agree with Smith, but maybe this will help console some of those who seem unable to accept that the Sox didn't sign Machado:

Wow, Caulfield, now you've added the city of Chicago to the list of things, about which to be negative. LOL. Seriously, I thought the Harpers loved Chicago.

Given the sense of desperation that Sox management must feel, at this point, Boras will attempt to use that, as leverage. The last thing that Hahn should do is declare their interest in pursuing him. That would only make failure to close yet another deal, completely untenable. The smarter thing is to refrain from expressing any intentions. When the time comes, it is almost certain that Boras will approach the Sox and give them a chance to top the Phillies' offer. Let's hope that the front office and ownership will be prepared to do it right, this time. The one potential positive here is that the Phillies may be the only other serious suitor. Do you guys think that the Giants are serious? The latest I read on MLB Traderumors. com is that they are only interested in offering a short term contract.

It seems a little futile for me to continue to respond to everyone's comments, so please allow me to make one final point. I am simply waiting to see what happens. I didn't like yesterday's failed effort to sign Machado, but until Harper signs, and we can evaluate the merits of his deal, I continue to reserve judgement. I'm just a fan, and have no influence over anything that may, or may not, be done about player acquisitions. If you think that I am being unreasonably and irrationally patient, that is your prerogative. I'm just not comfortable "flying off the handle" and attacking the front office and ownership, without waiting to see what happens. Machado was never my preferred acquisition. I have expressed my personal reservations about him, as a person and as a potential "face of the franchise" player. It would have been a huge upgrade to the roster, but I'm not heart broken over losing him to the Padres. Harper is another story. Depending upon what happens, even yesterday's failure may seem acceptable, in the bigger picture. Carry on gentlemen. Go ahead and get your anger off your chests, if it makes you feel better.

And just what should we expect them to say? My level of hopefulness is irrelevant. The point is that we simply do not know. I'm waiting and reserving judgement.

Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement.

If that happens, I will indeed grab my torch and pitch fork and lead the charge on the front office of Guaranteed Rate Field. However, I don't think that is going to happen and I doubt that you do, either.