Lillian

Yes, but what if the unspoken part of the plan also included spending on Harper? Perhaps Hahn had a good point, if they intend to spend $350 million on Harper. The extra guaranteed $300 million on Machado would indeed have crippled their chances of being able to retain the young players.

Perhaps we should all simply wait to see what transpires, before we draw any conclusions, or engage in any more hyperbole. I'm not defending the front office, but I'm not ready to grab my torch and pitch fork, either. I'm not privy to any of the real details, regarding their intentions, or strategies and I am pretty sure that no one else here is, either. We'll see what happens, then we can all offer our fair and reasonable critiques.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but I'm afraid I must keep reminding everyone that the "Sox did not admit that they aren't giving Harper $300 million". They were addressing the Machado negotiations, not the Harper circumstance.

Your point is well taken and I would agree, unless the final deal for Harper is unreasonable, even by the most extravagant spending standards. If some team, other than the Sox, signs him for 12 years, $450 million, I'm not going to criticize J. R., Hahn or K. W. for not beating the winning bid. Are you?

I understand and appreciate your disappointment, however please consider the following: 1) The front office did not say that they could not go to $300 Million for Harper. That comment was specifically addressing the Machado deal. 2) We do not know that Machado was their "top choice". He may have been the first one with whom they seriously negotiated, but that was likely because it was apparent that Harper would not sign, until after Machado did. 3) They had to have always known that Harper would be the more expensive acquisition.

Exactly how have they made it clear, that they aren't planning to go after Harper?

Again, it is not a valid assumption that they view both players the same way. Look at it like this. They originally hoped to be able to sign both Harper and Machado. The more desirable player was Harper and they knew that he would cost more. They were hoping to get Machado for a little less, which would have really made the acquisition of both more feasible. They did indeed almost get Machado and not for exactly "chump change". However, the bigger prize for the Sox may have always been Harper. Now that they still have almost all of the financial resources, which they were prepared to spend on both, minus what they spent on short term commitments to Manny's friends, they can afford to be very aggressive in their pursuit of Harper. I really think that it is a mistake to equate how they approached the Machado negotiations, with the way they may now pursue Harper. Moreover, if this suggestion that J. R. was serious about going after both of them is true, the accusations that he is "cheap" are completely unjustified. Don't lose hope. Hey, it's all we have, right?

I am very serious. I meant what I said. I could be way off the mark, but that's my perception.

Why should we assume that the way they approached the Machado negotiations is exactly how they would negotiate for Harper?

Great point. I will actually be very surprised if the Sox do not now aggressively pursue Harper.

I'm probably one who would indeed have quickly tired of his "act". He is not a very likable, or relatable person. It's so easy to really like most of our young prospects. They all seem to be genuinely nice people. Manny never impressed me as being that kind of guy. Could our front office and ownership have had the same impression?

We'll see.

The fact that the Sox wouldn't offer Machado 10 years, $300 Million, does not preclude their willingness to offer Harper 10 years, $350 Million. They are not the same players. Perhaps they view some of the "intangibles," which Harper provides, as making him more valuable. Again, they have had interest in both, from the beginning and it was always assumed that Harper would cost more than Machado. That package they offered Manny wasn't exactly chicken feed. 10 years, $350 Million is not far off, from what their Machado offer could have amounted to.

Declaring that they don't believe in giving players opt outs could simply be a negotiating tactic. It provides a potential concession, which they can "reluctantly" grant, when their next F A target (Harper) demands it. I personally love opt outs, for the benefit of the team, as it keeps a player highly motivated.

On the field performance aside, Manny is a hard guy to like and root for. Maybe the front office never really felt like he would be worth the money, which he was seeking. They may have also worried about whether, or not, he had the discipline and character to be dedicated to the game, for 10 years, once he was guaranteed all of that money. Perhaps they view Harper differently. He is the more likable person and a better "face of the franchise". If they thought they could realistically afford both, now all they have to do is spend enough on one, to get it done. The fact that he doesn't appear to want to go to Philadelphia might provide an opportunity for this organization to redeem itself, with its now disgruntled fans. Just do it!!!

Didn't Quentin break his hand slamming the bat with it, after striking out?

So, what do the Sox play for, this season? Is this year # 3 of "tank for the Draft"? If Hahn tries to fill a bunch of holes with guys who are not part of the long term plan, this fan base will be even more livid. Unless they just accept the losing, that reversal of intentions would seem almost inevitable. They are not going to compete without adding too many pieces, and none of them meet the criteria of being part of the long term rebuild.

I agree with your assertion and for that I do fault Hahn and K. W. They should have never made any public pronouncements. Perhaps the questionable acquisitions of Jay and Alonso made that pretty much impossible to conceal.

How can you be so confident that such arguments were not presented? Maybe ownership just wouldn't agree to give Machado $300 Million. Moreover, I understood that J. R. had taken over the negotiating responsibility, in the Machado case.

They better not acquire more free agents, of the type that are available. They already have too many, with the aforementioned Jay and Alonso. There aren't any other young free agents, that make sense, as far as I can tell.

I'm only up to page 804 of this collective rant, but I'd like to interject that it seems unfair to fault Hahn or K. W. for this failure. If ownership told them that they would not go beyond a certain level, that pretty much tied their hands. It's hard to imagine that they will now turn their attention to Harper, who is seeking even more money. Although it is possible that they are prepared to spend more on him, than they were on Machado. I seriously doubt it, as I'm sure do most of you. I do not want to watch Alonso and Jay taking at bats away from youngsters, who may have a place on this team, going forward, or could develop into useful trade chips. I would much prefer to see what we have in Palka and even Engel, than watch two guys who have no future with this team. I hope that they will be able to remove those guys from the roster, even if they have to practically give them away and eat the contracts. If not, the front office will have done precisely what they vowed not to do, ie; acquire short term fixes, which do not at all fit the "long term" plan. The one thing that seems a little inconsistent to me is the first response from K. W., in which he expressed such surprise, as though he wasn't given a chance to top the Padres' bid. Then, in the next breadth, he says that they just couldn't go 10 years and $300 Million. So, which is it?

I was fortunate enough to be there, that night. Thanks for the memories.

Very aptly put. This better not ultimately be the resolution of all of these contemplated moves. By contrast, Machado at 3RD, T. A. at SS and Moncada at 2ND could become one of the best defensive infields in the game, and might also be capable of terrific offensive production. The contrast couldn't be more glaringly obvious.

All of this hysteria is over these obvious, yet questionable negotiating tactics. So, there might be some possibly unethical tactics being employed by Lozano, as the Sox pursue baseball's "bad boy" through negotiations with his sleazeball agent. Why should any of us be surprised? The bigger surprise would have been a normal, quick resolution.

Wow, Moustakas taking another one year deal. His chances for a big free agency contract are dwindling quickly. I'm surprised he has taken this route.