scenario

I've seen some good arguments in this thread... But I'm still of the opinion that we should keep him. I have a hard time understanding how teams get better by trading away their best pitchers. If we're writing off 2009 maybe... but not if we want to compete next year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 02:18 AM) Look, you can throw out all the numbers you want. The eyes don't lie. Jenks: Got people out. Got saves. Got applause. Dotel: Made people sick to their stomachs with his abysmal pitching. Dotel, with all due respect, is a joke. Not as bad as MacDougal or Sisco or the other Royal hack we put in games, of course, but a joke noneheless. No. The reason for numbers is because people are prone to being overly influenced by events that stand out as strongly negative (or positive) in their minds. In other words, it's natural for people to look at a few negative events and think "the guy's a bum"... because that's what they remember. It's not the eye's lying... it's a matter of selective memory. Stats help add objectivity to evaluation. And objectively... Dotel was a good relief pitcher this year who had a few memorable bad games.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 09:21 AM) I guess you can add DJ Carrasco and Horacio Ramirez as options 4/5 to that list as well. I think we've seen the last of Horacio Ramirez. He's been cut and doubtful he'll be back.

Assuming we sign Viciedo... It's likely we'll get conflicting reports all the way until spring training on this kid. Remember after we signed Alexei last year? He went from being a Cuban all-star to an "at-best utility player" in the eyes of many media members and scouts. IIRC, our old friend Bureau had him projected in the mid-40s... and suggested his ceiling was Omar Infante. So... probably a good idea to take both the hype and the knocks with a grain of salt.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 03:27 AM) Who the heck is Lisa Winston? IMO one of MLB.com's best writers. Generally very thorough. This article isn't very deep... but it's not supposed to be. It's an overview. She's written some great articles about prospects, including Sox players, in the past. I seek her stuff out because it's consistently good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 07:02 PM) The question is, what do the Cardinals ask us for...you know it's going to start with pitching, and we can offer Jenks/Vazquez but they will want Buehrle, Danks and Floyd. Don't make the mistake of undervaluing Vazquez. I know it's popular to bash him right now, but early in the season people were referring to him as the ace of our staff... and rightfully so because he was pitching extremely well. The only reason IMO that he's catching as much crap as he is right now is because of how he finished out the year. KW won't give him away... and he shouldn't. If the Sox decide to deal him there will be teams lining up to take him off of our hands.

The AFL is considered an 'elite' talent league. The fact that he is excelling here this soon is a very good sign. I think (my opinion) that he'll start the year in Birmingham and has a good shot of being in Charlotte before year end.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 06:02 PM) Scenario...did you happen to see the crazy lady waving the flags and flappin' her gums the whole game? Seems she's out at every game I go to. LOL. Yeah... I talked to somebody who said she's a regular at all the games... calls herself "The Flag Lady". Yells to the players and waves her flags all throughout the games. Another good example of why truth is stranger than fiction.

There are a couple of guys from the Cubs minor league system that interested me too... Guys that are longshots but may benefit from moving to a new organization... Like Matt Craig, Josh Kroeger, and Carmen Pignatiello. I think Kroeger's got some talent... just hasn't had a shot yet.

561 Players were made minor league free agents on Nov. 6th... Here's the list from Baseball America. Lots of garbage to pick through... But there could be a couple of players who could contribute in there. The 2009 versions of Carrasco and Wise, maybe.

Somebody needs to help me understand how a team gets better by trading its best relief pitcher... one of the best relief pitchers in baseball the last 3 years. In the periods where our bullpen turned to crap the last few years, he was consistently the only guy who could get people out. And he's young and still cheap. So... why is this even remotely a good idea? I'm skeptical, but open-minded and willing to be persuaded by a good argument.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 04:38 PM) There is a difference though between a level swing with a hands high finish that allows to square up the ball or to get lift. There is another when its an artifical upper cut that some of our hitters have been guility of. ^^^^^^^^^^ Thank you. That clarifies what I was trying to describe.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 10:55 AM) It doesn't take a baseball expert to see that Richard quite simply does not have the stuff to make it as more then a very mediocre-bad starting pitcher. Again... you obviously don't like the guy. But your opinion should not be stated as fact. IMO, he does have the stuff. Here's a quote from MiLB.com who selected Richard as WhiteSox Minor League Pitcher of the Year over Aaron Poreda... Clayton Richard, RHP: Richard edged Poreda for postseason laurels after going 12-6 with a 2.47 ERA at Birmingham and Triple-A Charlotte, earning the start for the U.S. team in the All-Star Futures Game and a spot on the White Sox postseason roster. He posted a 1.42 ERA in 6 1/3 playoff innings, which led all AL pitchers who tossed at least one inning per game. He was 6-6 with a 2.47 ERA at Birmingham and didn't miss a beat moving up to Charlotte, where he was 6-0 with a 2.45 ERA. The control freak walked only 20 in 127 2/3 Minor League innings while fanning 86.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:55 AM) That's a good thing that he exaggerates turning his top hand over. My guess is that he felt like he needed to work on getting his bat through the zone quicker and really wanted to get his top hand turned over quicker. A lot of people don't realize that swinging a baseball bat, or rather having good bat speed, is all in the wrist and forearms. Also, having an uppercut swing is a good thing. As Ted Williams explained, the ball isn't coming in flat, it is coming in at a downward angle. So swinging with an uppercut would actually put your bat and the ball at the same level. Not sure how holding your hands high and forward helps a guy get his bat through the zone faster. Seems like an approach that would make it very difficult to have a compact swing. And you like upper-cut swings as a batting style eh? It would be interesting to see how many batting coaches in baseball today advocate that approach.

Story from MiLB.com about Beckham's big day today.

Good article by Lisa Winston on Sox prospects and organizational outlook.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 08:07 PM) Yes he can. Watching his swing did you notice his top hand?...I'd never really seen that before on a hitter...he kind of exaggerated turning it over in his stance. But he really does get the bat through the zone pretty quick. You're right. It was pretty exaggerated. Probably creates holes in his swing that may need to be closed up if he's going to hit at the pro level.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 06:39 PM) Isn't Cole pretty comparable to AJP with a little more power and a little less contact? My impression watching him is that he has a bit of an uppercut swing... which may make him prone to strikeouts... but he can hit the ball a long way if he connects. I saw him absolutely cream a couple of pitches. One barely foul that he hit all the way out of the ballpark. One towering shot for a homerun. I walked away with the impression that he definitely has better than average power.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 07:34 PM) I don't know scenario...the games I've seen him catch this fall he really didn't impress me all that much defensively. So I guess I can't base my decision on him with the 4 games I've seen him. But when I did see him...he had a handful of passed balls, dropped an easy popup and his arm didn't look overly impressive IMO (which I only got to see about 3 times). So again...I've only seen him play a handful of times and not throughout a whole season so I could be way off base. What did you think when you saw him?... He caught one game I saw and DH'd the other. In the game he caught, he had one really nice play... snapping off a throw behind the plate and picking a runner off first. It was fairly impressive. A very strong and accurate throw. No other plays involved him. I believe he has a reputation of being pretty solid behind the plate. He has been pretty effective at throwing out baserunners in his minor league career. And besides... why would a team keep a guy with a career .257 BA and .712 OPS around if he wasn't good defensively? He did have 8 PB's this year at Charlotte, most because of difficulty catching Charlie Haeger's knuckleball. Before that he had a total of 11 PB's in 6 years.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 05:27 PM) Cole Armstorng is really impressing to the point that It sounds like the organization might even overlook his defensive deficiencies if he can offer consistent offensive contribution off the bench. What defensive deficiencies?

QUOTE (Sockin @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) Beckham is having a monster game so far today going 4-4 with 4 runs scored, 6 RBI, a HR, and a triple. Attaboy Gordo!! ("Gordo" is what all the guys on team call him from what I could hear at the games.)

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 11:12 AM) No interest for Javy from the Orioles. They already have a Javy type pitcher in Daniel Cabrera. Dynamite stuff, but a mental midget. Come on... Daniel Cabrera in nowhere near the pitcher Javy is. Cabrera is still at the point in his career where it's not clear he can hold onto a starter position on a crap team. He's never had one season with an ERA near Javy's career average. Not a good comparison.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 11:01 AM) Why would the Oriole's have any interest in Javy? Because he would automatically be their 2nd best starter... and help bring a veteran presence to what was the 2nd worst pitching staff in the majors last year. And they'd get two years of a veteran starter in exchange for a guy in his walk year. Actually I think it could be the foundation of an interesting trade for both sides... but it's likely there would be other players involved rather than just a one-for-one trade.

More Cole Armstrong pics...

Cole Armstrong pics...