SoxHawk1980

And to think that some Sox fans say that Juan Uribe is the best defensive SS in baseball. Laughable.

Sox starting pitchers since the ASB: Garland, 3.15 ERA, 1.26 WHIP Vazquez, 4.18 ERA, 1.22 WHIP Garcia, 4.26 ERA, 1.17 WHIP Contreras, 4.98 ERA, 1.33 WHIP Buehrle, 6.01 ERA, 1.59 WHIP Garcia clearly hasn't been the Sox best pitcher in the second half. I'd put him tied for second with Vazquez, who you want to get rid of.

If Zito goes to a hitter's park, he could quickly become an average starting pitcher.

You're close. They are still worthy of discussing. I'm glad you're finally on board.

No, they are completely exhausted. 12 extra games just killed them. I'm surprised they had the strength to make it back to play baseball at all this year. And they're hurt. My god, they're barely alive. They have an EKG and a defibrillator in the dugout to keep those guys alive for the stretch run. AJ had to be zapped back to life a couple of times in the last homestand. I think they deserve a standing ovation for just managing to wake up every morning. (Sometimes green isn't needed.) Is anyone insinuating that the KNOW what is going on with this team. Really. I certainly don't have any inside information. I haven't even had any conversations with any of the players. I'm just making my best guess and giving my opinion based on what I've seen. Aren't we all just giving our opinions?

There's no anger. I think any baseball arguments are fine. What I thought was out of line was you basically telling me that I have grown up enough and that you hope I'll become a more evolved fan like you. It was condescending in the extreme, period. This is getting funny. In one breath you say that you aren't being condescending, and in the next you talk about growth and maturation and that I should be "ashamed when I am somewhere else in life." What you don't understand is that just because I disagree with you about the Sox and just because I feel differently about Sox losses than you do does not mean that you are a more evolved and mature person than I am. For the record, you have no idea if I am angry and/or bitter about this team. I am disappointed and frustrated with them, of course. But you seem to be implying or flat out stating that I am somehow so enraged about this team that I can't enjoy my life or something. The Sox aren't an obsession for me. Like 99% of fans, I'm upset when they lose and I'm disappointed with the team this season.

No, it isn't that I don't understand. I just disagree. And your condescension was way out of line. Just my opinion.

Very true. Garland had a horrible start and his overall numbers have been just slightly better than average this year. He deserves as much blame as the offense for him not getting 20 wins.

First, you don't know anything about what point in my life I'm at. You've read some posts of mine about the Chicago White Sox, and that's it. You think that I don't "think in terms of grey yet" because I think the Sox haven't been playing with fire or intensity this season? I think you are reaching...greatly. FWIW, I don't kick my cat when Konerko DP's. And Sox losses don't ruin my life. I recognize the importance of sports. It is just entertainment, but I care nonetheless. Again, you can't experience highs with a team if you don't also feel the lows. They go hand in hand. That is exceptionally rare for human beings. How can one be overjoyed about wins and not care much about losses? You can be whatever kind of fan you want to be. But please don't pretend for a second that your odd outlook towards the Sox is the more evolved way to be. Congrats on the superiority and condescension. You do it well. "When you grow up, you'll be a good, mature fan like me." You have a very high opinion of yourself.

I'm sure AJ has some nagging shoulder injury which prevented him from throwing to third. Exactly. They need something to light a fire under them this offseason. Hopefully some playoff success from an AL Central team will wake them up and get them over their long WS hangover.

With all due respect, that is silly. If you love a team and really care about them winning, then you are also going to really care about them losing. Is it possible for a fan to be really happy when a team wins but not be affected when the team loses? I wouldn't think so. That certainly isn't the case for me. When they win, I am elated. When they lose, I am crestfallen. Obviously, some wins and losses are bigger than others, but they all affect me. Do you think it is realistic for a fan's upset over a loss to stop as soon as he turns the game off? I'm sorry, but I really care about the White Sox. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been overjoyed when the Sox won the World Series. I don't consider being happy or sad about the Sox being "wasted energy". I don't see how anyone could. Frankly, I prefer it when fans really care. I understand that injuries and pain affect performance. However, I think some give it too much weight. The reality is that the Sox played only 12 more games than their competitors and had a month less to recuperate. I think it is easy for some here to overestimate the importance of that. Also, I'm not merely judging this team by what I see on the field as a lack of intensity. They also look much different in the dugout than they did last year. Last year, everyone was into every game. Most guys were on the top step of the dugout. This year, most everyone is sitting back, looking genuinely uninterested. I've seen more than a few yawns in the dugout. These guys just aren't into it like they were last year. It's easy to come up with excuses for this team. However, their lack of hustle, fire, intensity should not be excused.

I'm sorry, but to me that sounds like you working hard to come up with an alibi for this team. If you see a player who looks like he isn't playing at 100%, you assume it must be some nagging injury. When I see so many Sox players with a lacadaisical effort, I see a team without fire, intensity or hunger. They got their championship and now they're satisfied. They had nagging injuries last year at this team (all teams do) and they still played with intensity. They willed themselves to win. This team isn't doing that at all. So, the proof that they haven't quit is that they are showing up at the ballpark? That's enough for you? It's enough that they just show up and play? THAT isn't enough. That is the very, very least that they have to do. More importantly, they have to give 100%. They have to play all out, every day, particularly in the stretch run. Instead, I see half-hearted efforts. Putting off surgery is a very common thing. Players do it all the time. There are many surgeries that do not need to be done immediately and can easily be postponed until the end of the season. And you have no proof that Thome or anyone else is "risking major injury" by playing. Let's not wildly exaggerate the situation. All I want to see is effort. I want to see them giving all they have. And I haven't seen that. And a bunch of injury alibis aren't nearly enough. First, that extra "month" was 12 games. And 12 more games in a prior season when you had months off to rest and recuperate shouldn't account for so many more "nagging injuries" that you shouldn't be able to play hard in a stretch run.

I've heard similar things about Santana, Silva, Mauer, Cuddyer, Hunter, Bonderman, Rogers, Castillo, Rodriguez and Thames dealing with injuries/pain/discomfort. All teams have multiple players with nagging injuries. That is no alibi.

Wow, more ignorance, idiocy from Ozzie. Why is it that some people want him to continue as manager of this team? It became clear to me this season that Podsednik is a 0-tool player. A little while later in the season I realized that Ozzie is a 0-tool manager. He can't fill out a good lineup, he doesn't know how to handle starting pitchers or the bullpen. His in-game decisions are laughably horrible. He has shown this season that he can't motivate his players. I ask all of the Ozzie-defenders: what is Ozzie good at?

Yes, that is much better. That is what they deserve for the effort they gave this season, particularly in the second half. Actually, what would be even better is if they actually treated all of the games in September like they were actually important games of a stretch run instead of just yawning their way through them and planning their October vacations. Some fans just need to come up with alibis. For them, it's never the talent level, it's never effort, it's injuries or bad breaks or something else out of the team's control. The reality is that EVERY team is dealing with multiple players who are injured. By this time in the season, multiple players on every team have nagging injuries that they are playing through. The Sox get no pass because some of the players are feeling some pain or discomfort. That's what they get paid for. The problem is that this team isn't playing with fire and intensity game in and game out. Way too often they just sleepwalk through games. 100% effort every night is not too much to ask for. It is the least that we fans deserve.

Did the Sox get a standing ovation last night for crapping their pants (again) against the Tigers? I think they definitely deserve a standing ovation for losing 2 of 3 in that critical series and basically sleepwalking their way through the second half. Thanks guys!

They rolled over and played dead after the ASB. They had the talent to at least get to the playoffs and they had the WC lead at the ASB, and they played with no intensity, no fire, no heart. They yawned their way through the stretch run. They have their championship rings and now they are fat and happy. I want them to play hard and give 100%. All fans deserve that. Instead, they play hard every now and then, but not on a consistent basis. That's not near enough. Boo.

Let's give them a standing ovation right now! I love the effort.

Every team must EARN their standing ovations. The Sox earned it last year and they got plenty. They also got lots of carry-over love early in this season. They earned that too. Since the ASB, they haven't just lost; they haven't fought hard. They haven't given 100% effort. They've shown no fire, intensity or heart. THAT does not deserve a standing ovation. This team is experiencing a big hangover from 2005. Unfortunately, many fans are too. Many fans think it was enough for the Sox to win the championship and then phone it in. Some of these fans even want us to giving the team a standing ovation even though they are sleepwalking through the second half. If they lose 100 games next year, should we give them standing ovations too? They did win it all in 2005... Let's just give them standing ovations at every game no matter how crappy they play and how little effort they give. Rock, apparently you'd cheer if the Sox went out and took a dump on the field. Some fans have higher standards.

I think that is ok for a first complete season as a starter, but I'm more interested in the team than in BMac's development. My problem is that this represents a very minor improvement for our rotation when that rotation needs much more improvement than that. Also, if 4.60 is the over/under, I'll bet the over.

That actually would be sweet.

But we should give a s*** about whether BA makes it out of Ozzie's doghouse. I think if Ozzie gets his way, BA will be relegated to permanent bench status, or maybe back to AAA.

Do I think Brandon will do worse than a 4.82 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP? He might, but I think he'd do a little better. But not much better. I, for one, am not going to pretend this season never happened and remember only the good starts of 2005. A minimal upgrade at best, and I don't think that projection for BMac is conservative at all. I'm not judging BMac on one season (or just 42 innings). I'm looking at his entire major league career, plus his minor league performance, plus what I see with my own two eyes. I see a good prospect but certainly one who is not yet ready to be a good major league starter. I don't want to trade him. But I also don't think we should expect him to be anything more than minimal upgrade over Garcia (at best).

If I remember correctly, that was his first full season in the majors. Feel free to spin Wright and McCarthy's numbers any way you want, but I don't see greatness in McCarthy's future after this crap season. I think CWSGuy406's prediction for 2007 is pretty close and that would be anything but impressive. And, BTW, it is worse than what this team needs. I'm not saying trade the guy, but this rotation needs an uprgrade and McCarthy isn't it.

That's great if the $10M is used to bring in a starting pitcher that is actually good. This rotation needs improvement desperately.