StrangeSox

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:14 PM) I'm not defending the choking thing at all. I'm just saying that pulling away is technically resisting. If some kind of charges were brought, I'd completely understand why. If he violated the department's general orders, he'll probably be fired (I think someone said he already is). And he'll almost certainly face a civil suit and pay. And the department more than likely won't indemnify him due to breaking department orders. Understood, that was kind of a crappy, rushed phone post so sorry about the tone. I posted it in the Dem thread, but their actions are exactly the sort of thing the DoJ just blasted the Cleveland PD over. They've found that Cleveland PD officers routinely take unnecessary actions where they place themselves in a situation where the deployment of force, sometimes lethal, is their only option. These two clowns drove around a bunch of bollards just so they could pull up two feet away from the kid they thought had a real gun. Then they shoot him to death within two seconds. The gun was still in the kid's waistband when he was shot, so the fact that the orange tip was removed isn't even relevant. Then the police lied about what happened, claiming that they saw him in the gazebo with other people around and that they told him to put his hands up three times. If they hadn't charged in like a bunch of cowboys for no reason, then the situation doesn't escalate rapidly and they aren't left with little choice but to kill a kid with a BB gun. It's similar to the shooting of the guy with a knife in Missouri a few months back. The police pulled up pretty damn close to the guy, leaving them little time to react and diffuse the situation without it turning deadly.

No turnovers from Jay tonight but he missed some big throws. And of course can't get any run game going against a bad run defense.

Cherry on the top.

This is worse than the 2004 team with Jonathan Quinn and crew.

Putting injustice in scare quotes when we're talking about police getting away with murder doesn't exactly help your point. The good ones defend the bad ones damn near every time.

Complete meltdown. Again.

How does conte seem to get injured every game

I bet they had good practices this week though.

The officers who shot the twelve year old rushed up to him like a couple of cowboys and killed him within two seconds. He was presenting a threat to absolutely nobody when they arrived. The Cleveland police department as a whole was castigated in a doj report today over just this sort of excessive force and needlessly putting themselves in situations where deadly force is the only choice they have. The cop who killed this child immediately after exiting his car was found to be incompetent by his previous department. It's not hard to see why some people have such distrust of the police. What does a cop have to do for another cop to think they did something wrong? We have someone killed for "resisting arrest" by pulling his hand away and a twelve year old boy shot dead in two seconds by a couple of incompetent clowns and they're still getting excuses.

Oh bears.

Ben Carson stands by his US-Nazi Germany comparison, insists he is not a crackpot.

there's a name I completely forgot about

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Those officers should lose their jobs for what happened to Garner. Tax payers will have to foot the bill for the officers negligence. I think Officer Choke Hold was fired or they've said he will be fired.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) I understand that there seems to have been something wrong on the officers part. You seem to be completely incapable of admitting that the guy resisting arrest has some blame here as well for escalating the situation. Nobody said that pulling your hand away from an officer justifies getting killed. But it does justify a response. The guy "resisting arrest," if we want to charitably call it that, bears zero blame for the police using excessive force. The officer's actual response was completely unjustified and led to Garner's death. More importantly, whether Garner "has some blame" is completely irrelevant to whether or not the officer should be looking forward to years in jail for killing a man instead of walking free.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) I don't know that i have an issue with him washing the blood of someone off of his body. I wouldn't want that sitting on my face for hours. edit: and why is it problematic that he drove himself back to the station? Or enter his gun into evidence? Was he totally alone? Could he somehow clean the gun of evidence? That he shot Brown with his service weapon isn't really an issue. Maybe the number of bullets shot, but i'm sure they found all or most of the casings on the scene. I admit it doesn't scream "great chain of custody/evidence gathering," but I don't think it changes the ball game either way. it screams incompetent or deliberately shoddy police work.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) I don't know that i have an issue with him washing the blood of someone off of his body. I wouldn't want that sitting on my face for hours. Evidence should have been collected on the scene or he should have been driven back with somebody to the station to collect evidence (log the gun into evidence, gather blood and possible gunshot residue samples from his hands an face). Then he's free to wash up. Incompetence or deliberate non-investigation seems like the only two possibilities here.

There's lots of gems in this thread about "a dozen" witnesses backing up Wilson's charging story (nope, just Witness 10 and Wilson with 12 others saying he had his hands up), reported orbital fractures, etc, but this is what I was looking for: Cop Pens Touching Op-Ed: Do Everything I Say and I Won't Kill You Obey or be brutalized.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) How did they find blood on Wilson if he washed it off? It was on his clothes, but he scrubbed it off of his face and hands. That he was even allowed to go back to the station by himself with his own weapon used in a shooting that killed someone speaks to remarkably poor police work.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 03:58 PM) I'm sure his report and his interviews were done immediately. I was looking for something else and found these series of posts. LOL, nope! They let Wilson drive himself back, alone. Then scrub himself clean of blood and gunshot residue. Then he got to enter his own gun into evidence. And of course there was never any written or recorded statement.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) Do you want to police to enforce the laws or not? The only way they have to enforce them is violence and/or the threat of violence. If you think certain laws are trivial enough to not need to be enforced, then just eliminate the laws altogether. What laws he was violating shouldn't matter. If he broke the law and was to be arrested, resisting arrest is an open invitation for the violence part of law enforcement. Not agreeing with the level that seems to have been used, but the door was open. He chose unwisely. Pulling your hand away does not or at least should not "open" a door to police brutality and murder. If a police officer cannot resist the "invitation" to violence, they should be fired immediately and tried and convicted for any excessive force they have used.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) I didn't say it excused it. I said that HE is the one that elevated the situation first by resisting arrest. He started a chain of events that had the eventual reality of him being dead. He could have prevented this by not resisting arrest. It also could have been prevented from somethign other than a choke hold, maybe a tazer, or how about a baton against the back of the knees? He opened the door to potentially bad things and bad things happened. I do not believe that police should be generally viewed as violent thugs with no impulse control such that the result of the slightest disobedience is police brutality. The man pulled his hand away a few times because he was being harassed about some damn cigarettes and that's about it. It doesn't justify jumping on his back and putting him in a choke hold. It doesn't justify using a tazer on him or bashing his knees with a baton.

Justice Department: Cleveland Police have a pattern of excessive force

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) I see him fighting and resisting until he is on the ground, and even then once they get one hand finally behind his back, he is still struggling. The knee someone had against his head may have had a contributing factor as well. Now there will be a few of you who will jump to the conclusion that I think he deserved to die for (allegedly) selling loosies. I didn't say or imply that anywhere, so you can just suck on that right now before you even begin. but once you resist arrest, YOU have elevated the situation to a point where anything can happen. Somewhat surprised there were no criminal charges of some kind, but pretty sure a civil case will be pending. Resisting arrest doesn't excuse police brutality and murder. At no point should any NYPD officer ever put anyone in a choke hold. These are supposed to be trained, disciplined professionals, and if "anything can happen," they should be fired for incompetence.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) Which would drop it from its current rate of 95%. Not getting an indictment on weak evidence should be something you want. I am being facetious. There's nothing new about police not being held accountable for their actions by both the justice system and many members of the public.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:43 PM) He initially pulls his hands away from the officer trying to grab them. After that point, and the entire time the choke hold is on him, he is offering zero resistance. STOP RESISTING WITH YOUR DYING Garner committed an assault on the police officer by attacking the officer's forearm with his neck. He also attempted to vandalized public property i.e. the sidewalk by smashing his face into it.