StrangeSox

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) I don't have a problem with an assault/battery charge. Murder or manslaughter? I don't think I can go that far. Not with the info on the internet anyway. If the experts say that the chokehold is the major cause of the death, then I'd be ok with it. The NYPD recognized as far back as 1985 that chokeholds are potentially lethal and changed their policy so that officers stop using them. This officer used a chokehold on a nonviolent man suspected of evading a f***ing cigarette tax and his actions directly led to his death. His assault and battery killed Eric Garner.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:22 PM) And I think everyone should be treated equally. Including cops who make terrible, tragic mistakes, but mistakes that don't deserve decades or life in prison. yeah see that's exactly the problem. Police who engage in brutality use excessive force that's recognized as increasing fatality risk make terrible, tragic mistakes that kill people rarely get charged and even more rarely get convicted. Regular people, not so much. Texas executes people on far, far weaker evidence than this case.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) You honestly think he should go to jail for the rest of his life for putting a guy into a chokehold for 5 seconds? And really, I think to be logical about it, you'd also have to want to put any officer there on the scene in jail as well, since their decisions to handcuff him and keep him on the ground is the biggest contributing factor to his death. I honestly think that he should go to jail for some period of time because he put someone in a chokehold, a technique that the NYPD recognized was killing people three decades ago, and killed them.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) I said that people in Ferguson might not want to join the police department because they view them as the enemy after the events of the Michael Brown shooting. You more or less said they would rather go burn buildings down. Tell me how I'm supposed to interpret that. Distrust of the police goes back a lot farther than that. That was just the spark.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Sure, but what about the mayor and police chief? Is police chief usually an elected position? County sheriff is in Illinois, but not local PD chief.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) Like, for example, a DA who doesn't want to bring charges in a case and uses the grand jury to make that happen? More specifically in the electoral process, but that also undermines faith in and credibility of the system.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) "Your Honor, can you please instruct the witness to answer the question." The BTP example is not really comparable, btw. The revolutionaries didn't have much recourse. Who could they complain to? Their local governments were ignored and they had no representation in Parliament. What political route did they have, especially when they're dealing with a monarch? You know what Ferguson people can do? Persuade their elected officials to make changes. They can elect new people if necessary. There are non-violent routes to take. Also, when Ferguson police officers start living with the people of Ferguson, eating their food, using their supplies, etc., then we can talk about whether an armed revolution makes sense. This assumes that there aren't structural impediments to fair representation by local government for minority citizens deliberately put in place.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) Then perhaps some of the fine upstanding residents of Ferguson should consider a career in law enforcement. In many (most? almost all?) suburban and exurban towns, a lot of the police don't actually live in the town but live nearby. It's one thing for a giant city like Chicago to require residency for the position because there's a huge area to choose from, but it'd be hard to attract enough people to small municipal police forces if they had to physically move there, especially when you might change jobs every few years. edit: here's some data to back that up http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/reexam...olice-officers/

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) I do wonder how Ferguson would have looked different if there had been a bunch of people with lawfully licensed assault-style rifles standing in with the rioters. Good time to point out that California, under the leadership of Reagan, first started instituting strict gun controls in response to the Black Panthers lawfully carrying weapons.

The Garner video is why a lot of people are skeptical that body cams will make any difference.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2...t_most-comments

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) But the Ferguson people weren't destroying the property of people they were mad at, they just destroyed for the sake of destroying. And looting. East India didn't impose those taxes, Parliament did.

This is why the NYPD changed their policy in 1985 to disallow chokeholds: Using methods known to unnecessarily increase the lethality of a situation should absolutely be illegal, but this guy killed someone and walks away free.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) Was there any fighting between the officers and the the person. There isn't much info in the article or video. In the Brown case the officer was threatened. In this case, I haven't seen anything to make me think that. According to the anchor, the grand jury was asked to indict if there was malicious intent to kill. I highly doubt the officer intended to kill him so I'm not surprised there was no indictment. That seems weird. I have to imagine that New York has an involuntary manslaughter statute. New York 2nd Degree manslaughter code, part 1 seems to fit: . This might also fit, but I don't know how they define criminal negligence:

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) hey look, another unarmed black person was killed by a white officer and no charges will be filed. What were the odds of that happening in the same millennium. http://www.cnn.com/ "I can't breath!" choke hold case. But this person was suspected of selling cigarettes illegally. So, what is the proper response? Quietly protesting? That will get stuff done. The coroner ruled the death a homicide, and the officer used a choke hold, which is strictly against department policy. Still, no charges.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) Except that the cargo of tea belonged to a British company that was directly profiting from the unfair actions of the government. The property destroyed in Ferguson belonged to private citizens who had nothing to do with the "unfair" actions of the government. The East India Company was also a quasi-government entity. It wasn't directly controlled by the crown, but the crown had influence and East India ruled a lot of British colonies.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) Great trip with kids, just be ready for a couple of hours of walking for the good tours. Also there are a ton of other caves in the area. My favorite so far was Lost River Cave in Elizabethtown. Went there for a day in October, it was pretty cool.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) Top of my list is a World Series game.

But the SW side is a bunch of trees and some grass. They would have been coming in to either the parking lot on the west side right next to the gazebo or the other one ~100 feet away. Either one has a clear view of the gazebo, and they still have to go out of their way to drive around those bollards. If your first instinct is to rush right into a potentially deadly situation, then something wrong with your decision making process and/or your training. Plus, you know, the blatant lying about him being around a bunch of other people in the gazebo. As far as first aid, I would sure as hell hope that it's typical for officers to provide first aid to someone that's been shot once it's clear that they're no longer a threat. At that point, they are in police custody and the police are responsible for their well-being.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 11:06 AM) Do they know where he is when they pull up? If not, I guess that's your justification. But it does look like they created the problem by driving and parking where they did. Here's an overhead shot of the park. The yellow lines are the camera FOV and the blue box is where the police car stopped. I believe that they had pulled into the parking lot first. They took a really bizarre route, having to drive around the bollards blocking vehicle access to the gazebo. So either they didn't see him and just decided to start driving around the grass, or the driver made a really stupid decision that potentially placed his and his partner's life in jeopardy. The story told by the police also doesn't match what the video shows. They claimed that he was seated at the gazebo with several other people. He was standing when they pulled through the grass, which means they must have seen him sitting there as we see on the video before they pulled around. There also weren't any other people there, so it's kind of hard to credit that statement either way. They also claimed they told him to put his hands up three times, but they appear to shot him about 2 seconds after arriving. edit: the two officers involved also neglected to provide Tamir first aid for 4 minutes. An FBI agent who was working a case nearby arrived and administered first aid.

Best tool for smushing spiders--a Swiffer. If it's not a runner, you can carefully rest one of the edges against the ceiling and then quickly lever it flat. If it is a runner, you've at least got some distance.

I know the other thread was locked, but there's full video available of the Tamir Rice shooting: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2...cer_shot_1.html What stands out to me, similar to the knife-wielding guy in Missouri a few months back, is that the police put themselves in danger with little options from the start. They allegedly didn't receive the information from the caller that it was "probably" a fake gun or that it was just a kid. So why on earth would you drive directly up to the suspect you think is armed and put your partner on the passenger side about two feet away? They shoot and kill this kid within a couple of seconds of arriving on scene. Why not stop farther away (say, in that conveniently located parking lot?) and, using your vehicle for cover, address the kid directly or through the PA speaker on the car?

Also had to help chase a family of possums out of my friend's house once in high school.

My mom got attacked by a bat in our house in Kankakee once.

Darling Nikki