StrangeSox

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:42 AM) I dont see overreaction at all, I see them trying to keep the peace and safety of the actual protesters vs people who were firing guns at police. The Police were shot at last night and fired zero bullets. I saw them live giving more than 15 warnings to clear because of the shootings taking place while people just decided they wanted to get arrested. I see media asking why they have to move while their safety is in question. Should the police just let more innocent businesses owners lives go up in flames? I've seen them arresting and assaulting journalists for being in a McDonalds. I've seen them tear-gassing journalists and disassembling their video equipment. I've seen them launching tear gas and smoke into neighborhoods. I've seen them aim loaded weapons at unarmed protesters. I've seen them arrest councilmen and refuse to give name or badge number. I've seen them threaten to shoot people. I've seen them use smoke and tear gas to break up 100% peaceful gatherings. I've seen them demand that all video recording be stopped.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) And we have "a dozen" witnesses that supposedly support Wilson's account that Brown came after him. That was about whether Wilson left the area of his vehicle or not, though. His friend's second-hand account isn't clear on that. He just says that Wilson exited the vehicle because his first response was to pursue, and yelled "freeze." We don't know what Wilson's full account is yet. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Also, it's sad, but yet again we've allowed the media "reporting" false information to drive the narrative here. The Redskins team last night walked out onto the field with their hands up "in support" of a criminal who potentially could have been attacking a police officer. Continuing that "stop, don't shoot!" claim that I think at this point has been discredited. You still have the massive overreaction by the police to the ongoing protests.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) I remember when they were building that I was wondering what the heck was going on out there and then finally I saw when it was completed and was like, whoah. At first, all you could see was just massive towers being built in the middle of nowhere when it started (and there were no signs off the freeway, like you sometimes expect out in areas kind of in the middle of nowhere (like when you are passing a nuclear plant, you usually see a sign or something). You'd be surprised how many of the nuke plants have zero signing and are a huge pain in the ass to find.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) Apologies if I misconstrued what you were saying. i read your response as you telling me what the autopsy said vs. what I saw analysts saying. Basically like, listen, I evaluated the information and this is the case (e.g., you pretending you were an expert). All I was saying was that what was once a one sided story is turning into much more and the autopsy seems to be more supportive right now of the officers story then what snippets we have gotten from the witnesses story. Mainly basing that on the fact that he wasn't in fact shot in the back, like the witnesses indicated. Again, sorry if I misunderstood that. no problem, I think we were mainly talking past each other there.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) This is the place that is like an hour outside of Vegas right (West of Vegas, kind of on the way to California, right)? yeah, you can see it on google, it's right off of I-15: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ivanpah+S...1620c57d7b15ade

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) I've heard a few different analysts talking and discussing that the results could be interpreted to indicate he was moving forward / falling forward. Weird that you take such a sarcastic tone in that last line given that all I was saying was what you said in your first line. The autopsy results are consistent with both versions of the shooting out there right now. There's a difference between saying that the autopsy results are consistent with (the second-hand version of) Wilson's story and using language more along the lines of "the autopsy showed" or "the autopsy found brown was moving forward."

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) So did Wilson's story have him in the squad car while he shot him or was he out of the vehicle? One of the supposed "facts" of the case is that Brown's body was laying 30-35 feet away from the cop car. If both of those are true, it seems like a far away distance to suddenly use lethal force when he was unarmed. And if he was charging the squad car, wouldn't that have put him at an even further distance originally? I don't think we have an official incident report or debrief or anything. So far we have one of Wilson's friend relating the story Wilson supposedly told him, and it's not clear from that exactly where Wilson was.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) It also seems that from the autopsy results, that until the last bullet shot, he was still moving forward, hence the reason he was shot multiple times. There is absolutely nothing in the autopsy that says he was moving forward or probably moving forward. The wounds are consistent with charging with his head down, but they're also consistent with being shot as he's falling to the ground.

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For reference, here's a recap of what another witness said she saw, which matches that other witness I posted. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5677003 What I can't find on my phone right now is a good summary of the various witnesses and what they said all one place.

Here is video of the aftermath from one of the initial witnesses. http://www.ibtimes.com/new-video-mike-brow...led-him-1661840

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) What part of the story was inconsistent with the earlier statements, though? That he was aware of the robbery? Yes.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:52 PM) +1 Was the cops story via his friend inconsistent with previous police statements? (Yes)

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:40 PM) Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well. At least getting shot at from behind. The initial forensics report isn't inconsistent with those shots missing.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) The bullet into the top of the head. But, I guess you could say that was from him falling forward after being shot the 5 other times. Right, it's not inconsistent with brown charging with his head down, but it's consistent with other versions as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) they also don't show any signs of a previous struggle. My only thoughts are this probably all happened very fast. For some reason Brown turned around in a way that witnesses thought it was by force. Something that traumatizing is hard for the brain to process. He ran, may have been shot at from behind, turned around, started running, shot. I find it hard to believe he "made an obscene gesture" or whatever the wording was, then started bullrushing. And kept going. And at all points, where does the hands up come from? That was an added detail, that was from the first witnesses around the scene on twitter on saturday the 9th. I was following when it happened. Everyone said he was executed. There's more there. There were at least three if not four witnesses who back up the "hands up" version.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:39 PM) Who just so happened to be doing some kind of victory dance or celebration in the middle of the street with their $49 worth of stolen cigars. Because obviously no one else in the city would have the right to holding/carrying cigars in their hands, so it was very convenient that the officer just so happened four hours later to find those two still carrying around the cigars instead of smoking them, handing them out to friends, etc. Wait,I thought it was like ten minutes later, not four hours

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) The forensics are already showing support that Brown was both facing and likely moving towards the officer. And then you have the background conversation claiming there was a scuffle and that Brown charged him. I don't care what the racial makeup of the department is, if those things end up being true, it's 100% on Brown. The forensics say nothing about the likelihood of Brown's movements.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:34 PM) So the solution is for EVERYONE to have a gun. Because, if, no matter what, an officer can presume you have a gun, then unless there's some type of video/cam, it's always going to be his word against the victim's. Therefore, since officers will shoot assuming you have a gun anyway, why not just let everyone have a gun? P.S. I'm sure trained professionals can hit a 300 pound guy from 35 feet away at least once or twice at waist level or below if he's taking 6-8 shots. Are we supposed to believe this guy's moving as quick as William The Refrigerator Perry down the street like an enraged bull? You train for center mass, and even trained people have trouble hitting that in an intense situation with a handgun.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:09 PM) Even if he weren't aware of the robbery, he could still legally stop them for walking in the street. It's clearly less of a crime, but it's still a crime. Oh absolutely but that story from the officer's friend says something about them being robbery suspects.

It'd be nice if the police had some sort of incident report/debrief from Wilson dating back to last Saturday before any external information (witness statements) was known.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up. And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and them Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off. Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bum-rushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. Read more at http://www.brennerbrief.com/witness-michae...H0mut3WypWJP.99 Didn't the police chief already say that the officer wasn't aware of the robbery?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) At what point does it. When you are about to lose consciousness. A 6'3 300 pound man punches you in the face is not the same as a 5'8 175 pound guy doing the same thing. This isn't Mike Tyson's punch out. Okay, but that doesn't happen when they're still 35' away.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) It depends on the severity of the altercation, but yeah, i'm much more willing to allow cops to defend themselves than to expect them to show some unnatural restraint in the name of protecting some moronic criminal. I mean what kind of person is going to punch a cop repeatedly to the point that a cop would fear for his/her life? well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.