StrangeSox

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) Within the confines of Christianity, it is perfectly acceptable for a church to discipline one of its own members, so the statement he made in itself isn't necessarily wrong, but television is not the appropriate place for such discipline to be carried out, and without knowing a lot about Broussard he is probably not the appropriate person to do it. I'm not aware of any religious authority that Broussard has. This wasn't Collins' priest saying it, it was some other guy who also happens to be a Christian claiming that someone else can't be a Christian because they do something Broussard believes to be a sin.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) At the same time, I would like to remind those on the liberal side of things that you are more than welcome to call out Christians who actually discriminate against gays, but as long as there is a religion that has a view that homosexuality is wrong, the first amendment must protect the rights of people to hold that opinion. Nobody disagrees with that. He is free to hold all sorts of awful, terrible opinions. He is free to voice them, and we are free to respond. That doesn't mean we need to accept those beliefs any more than we need to accept what people at stormfront dot com think about blacks, Jews and Catholics. I'd like to say clearly, too, that it's not all Christians who act or think this way. My parents are both Christian and there was never a single issue when my brother came out. His boyfriend is over at 'family dinner' every week, especially after his own family disowned him for his sexuality. My wife's family are devout Catholics who go to church every week. Her uncle was gay and came out to his brothers in the 80's. They never had any problem with it. That's why I believe that the bigotry isn't really religious, it's just that religion gets used as an excuse and justification for the bigotry.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) Every interpretation of the Bible is personal. It's a book with words in it. You can believe what you want to believe. Others in this thread identify as Christian and don't agree with Broussard. That he was speaking from his own interpretation is obvious. But he didn't add these qualifiers. He stated, without qualification, that Collins cannot be a Christian. He claimed superiority for his version of Christianity. You're doing a lot of backpedaling for Broussard and I'm not sure why.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:35 PM) Self-identifying Christians talk constantly about sin and actions that are not "Christian-like." They might not talk about it on ESPN, but when was the last time there was an OTL segment on the problem with professional athletes and adultery or gambling? Those discussions happen all the time. Whether or not they end up on TV is up to the producers. That doesn't mean those conversations aren't being had. These conversations about whether some athlete was "living in sin" and in "open rebellion against God and Christ" who isn't a real Christian because they committed adultery don't happen outside of religious settings if they happen at all. The bigotry and exclusion and condemnation is reserved for the LGBT crowd and not other sinners. Yes, they are. They are entitled to decide whether or not Broussard gets a national media platform. Broussard himself is not entitled to any platform. One that includes condemnation and exclusion of LGBT people isn't that broad.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) But he didn't add any moral qualifier to it. He didn't say it was "wrong." He's saying it doesn't fit with Christianity (and again, his version of it). That's a key distinction here. lol, I don't think you need a moral qualifier when you're telling someone they're living in sin, that they're openly rebelling against God and Christ and that they cannot be a Christian. It's nothing but a moral statement that implies that Collins will suffer for eternity in hell for his sins. And Broussard never added this "my version of Christianity" qualifier you keep tossing out there. In fact, he was explicitly claiming that his version is superior to Collins' own version.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) Yes, one of the biggest problems with Christianity is the double standard in condemnation of some sins more so than others. Catholics who use birth control aren't told that they aren't Catholic, because being free from sin is not a requirement to be Catholic, but most priests will remind them that their use of birth control is a sin. Yup, and that's my point. Every single Christian on the planet "lives in sin," yet the LGBT community gets singled out for scorn and derision and exclusion (by some, not by all). That represents the bigotry behind this position as being something different than simply being religiously motivated; religion is used as the excuse to justify the bigotry, not as the source.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) But again, you realize the topic was about a gay basketball player coming out right? That's the conversation he was having. I'd imagine if he was willing to say that stuff on TV he's also got some pretty strong beliefs/comments about other people who sin and who aren't Christian too. Again, it's larger than just Broussard and Collins. Broussard is saying some pretty boiler-plate stuff which, again, is almost always directed at the LGBT community and not at any other self-identifying Christian who commits a sin. Which would be every last one of the billion-plus of them, including Broussard. It's not a topic of discussion for any other sin precisely because nobody really gives a s*** about the high levels of adultery among professional athletes and certainly don't routinely say they're not Christians because of it. Or gambling, or any other sin that people frequently commit. That it's a topic of discussion over whether or not someone who is LGBT is a "real Christian" or is living in "open rebellion" but it's not a topic for any other number of sins is exactly the problem and highlights how LGBT gets targeted. He can speak his mind as much as he wants. He's not entitled to a national media platform to do so, though, and we're all free to speak our minds in response. Would you be cool with someone calling for a return of racial exclusion in sports on ESPN? Hey, he's just speaking his mind! I thought you were tolerant!!! Tolerance doesn't require accepting bigotry as a legitimate viewpoint.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) Christianity these days is based on exclusion and judgement. I particularly like when the real crazies say they follow only whats in the Bible yet use science as a way to discredit gays. I posted this study in the 'buster last year. It was by The Barna Group, a pro-christian research group. They found that, among younger people, the primary association for Christianity is "antihomosexual." The post is by a liberal Christian woman lamenting the damage that this culture war has done to Christianity. http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/win-cultur...-north-carolina

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:06 PM) I don't see how what he said is bigoted though. He's not saying Collins is a lesser person. He's not saying he shouldn't play basketball. He's not saying let's round up all the queers and beat them in the streets. He said I think he's living in sin and not being a devout Christian, clearly based on his own version of Christianity. People justified slavery by pointing to scripture, too. Basically every form of bigotry (sexism, classism, racism, etc.) has been supported by references to some religious text. Didn't mean it wasn't bigoted.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) Oh f*** that. This is a perfect example of the double standard that exists with people that cry out about discrimination and tolerance. Broussard says that Collins being gay doesn't compute with his version of Christianity and people are saying he should be fired. God, how dare he have a personal belief and some conviction to tell people about it! That's so progressive and tolerant to be understanding of other people that way. So accepting! Every single person lives in sin according to every Christian theology I've ever heard. Yet the LGBT crowd frequently gets singled out and told that they're not actually Christians because of their sexuality which is a sin according to some Christians but not according to others. Are the 90+% of Catholics who support and use birth control frequently told they're not actually Catholic? Or every other of the billions of Christians who daily commit sins? No, they aren't. This sort of scorn and derision is targeted at a few groups, especially LGBT. And Broussard didn't say the softened-up version you've tried to pass off a few times; he didn't say it didn't fit his own personal view of scripture,he stated flatly that Collins is in "open rebellion against God and Christ" and that he isn't a Christian. You're pointing to the Paradox of Tolerance there, which is frequently brought up as a reactionary response when someone is being called out for being bigoted.

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett explains unemployment: they're all just a bunch of druggies! http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/3...eople-on-drugs/

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) This is the type of hyperbolic crap I just don't buy. 2 days ago 99.9% of the country didn't know who this guy was. They'd never heard of him. And now you're telling me that a complete nobody who came out is going to help other people? Really? You don't think this is media spin just a tad because they've been waiting for this story for so long? It's not about Jason Collins. And, yes, this is going to help other people, really. I don't understand how you can think it wouldn't.

The new Phoenix album is okay but nowhere near Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:19 PM) To those out there who know what what good music is ... What do you think of the band Alabama Shakes? Do you think the band is special or just average or ? I caught the band on SNL and listened to a concert or two online and thought it was pretty good stuff. I'm not an expert, however, and perhaps music aficionados could set me straight on Alabama Shakes. They're not bad but they got really, really overexposed for me last summer. I got burnt out on them really quickly.

TWTW+ is better and accounts for cross-year park factors and the positioning of Venus.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) Everyone covering the story yesterday? The fact that he got a personal call from the President? I'm sure he's not LITERALLY going to get a medal, but he's being treated like a national hero. What he did was important for himself and many others who, thanks to the bigotry of others, struggle with who they are and with being open about it. He deserves widespread support and recognition for having the courage to come out.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:37 AM) The LGBT community has just gotten louder the last decade, as has the "cause," so the "anti-" crowd has been equally loud in response. The Christian faith has ALWAYS had a problem with adultery. It was made illegal in most states because of it and some states still have laws on the books making it illegal (Illinois included). There's not much more to be said about how Christians shouldn't do it. You're really going to keep pretending that anti-LGBT animus is the same as every other religious sin receives? The LGBT community has made huge strides over the past decade. Several states have legalized marriage equality. DOMA's likely going to fail and would never, ever be passed today. DADT is dead. Public opinion has shifted rapidly just since 2004, when anti-gay measures were used to drive GOTV efforts for Bush. The homophobic bigots crowd has gotten quieter and weaker with their opposition, not louder. They're losing, and they know it. Yes, it was about public relations; a professional athlete in the US was able to come out publicly as a gay man. He has received widespread support, showing us all that anti-LGBT bigotry is not going to be widely tolerated as it once was. Also conservatives need to stop crying about Obama and marriage equality. He made a huge personal step. He may very well be a hero to thousands of young gay people who saw someone take that courageous first step and get such strong support from friends, teammates, family and even the damn President of the United States. That the country is overwhelming accepting is substantial in its own right. Nobody is comparing him to Rosa Parks, except people trying to make some weak-ass points because their bigotry isn't accepted anymore.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) absolutely agree re Foster and Norton. Ed Norton is just amazing. amazed Tom Hanks is getting no love. no Clooney? Johnny Depp is overrated. Show me something he's done in the last five years where he didn't have pale white makeup and gesticulate all over the place using the same jack sparrow voice He wasn't pale in Rum Diaries but he was basically a 1960's Jack Sparrow, since Jack Sparrow was based at least somewhat off his Hunter S. Thompson in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) Did someone ask him about adulterers? Or was he responding to a media driven hype machine about a gay basketball player? It's larger than just Broussard's comments on an NBA player. The LGBT community is singled out for all sorts of hate and attacks claiming to be based on religion while so many other things get a blind eye. People break all sorts of religion's rules without being told that they can't be Christian or that they're living in "open rebellion of Christ." Thankfully, that hateful side is pretty rapidly losing the cultural struggle over this issue. You can see this by their reactions largely being "oh well, big deal!" instead of the outrage and condemnation we'd have seen even just a few years ago. also lol @ "media driven hype machine," no he was responding to a pretty significant moment for sports/LGBT and being paid money to say bigoted things. he is a paid employee of the media. I think this article in The Nation gets why this was an important moment. Jason Collins felt that he had to hide who he really was because of the bigotry of others. He took a brave first step and hopefully others will feel comfortable being open about who they are in the future. In 10 years, I can't imagine anyone will care if an athlete is gay or straight.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:06 AM) Yes, maybe on the side he is banging chicks left & right behind his wife's back, who knows. But so far on air he hasn't treated them any differently than adulterers. He hasn't asked for Jason Collins to be banned from the NBA. He hasn't refused to cover a gay player's games. He just said that the religion he believes thinks homosexuality is a sin, just like adultery. I don't agree with his opinion, but I'll defend his right to believe in his religion. He didn't just defend his own particular version of religion, he claimed that Jason Collins couldn't be a real Christian because he's openly gay. That kind of language is frequently used against members of the LGBT community but not against adulterers and people who wear clothing made of more than one fabric, both serious sins in Leviticus. edit: Broussard's free to say whatever he wants, but that doesn't mean he has to be given a platform to say it by ESPN. I don't personally care one way or the other if he stays or goes because I don't ever watch ESPN.

Daniel Day Lewis

QUOTE (zenryan @ Apr 29, 2013 -> 05:04 PM) I'm a non believer but it seems like you cant even be religious these days without catching major flack for it. Right, like having some B-list sports commentator on a major national sports network telling you that you're not a real Christian because you're openly gay. The nerve of some people.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) So apparently, he should have interrupted previous NBA discussion with a "Oh, by the way, I disagree with the way all these adulterous NBA players live their lives. Back to you Magic". Then everyone would believe him. He could have written columns on it or started a blog or something. It's larger than Broussard, though, because the first openly gay male athlete in a major US sport (that's a lot of qualifiers!) sort of is a big deal, so it's going to be a point of discussion on ESPN etc. I guess I'm just generally incredulous towards the "oh I'm against adultery too" crowd because they seem to view and treat LGBT people differently than straight adulterers.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 07:16 AM) When exactly was there an ESPN roundtable discussion about players sexual lives off the court? If there had been before, I assume he would have mentioned this adultery stance too. Well that's sort of the point. He'll throw in some plausible deniability "oh I'm against adultery too" but this is only a topic of discussion when it comes to LGBT people "living in sin."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 07:59 AM) That's my problem with it too. Firing Broussard for being a Christian is the same as not signing Collins because he is gay, IMO. If Broussard was in a position of power and wouldn't hire gay people, then we could talk. Broussard wouldn't be fired for "being a Christian" edit: unless ESPN wants a huge lawsuit on their hands, that is edit2: you're right that firing Broussard for "being a Christian" isn't the same as discriminating against someone based on sexuality; one of those is a legal in almost every state!