iamshack

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) As Jason said earlier, most of the possible trades aren't for low A players, etc. It would be for guys who can play at the MLB level now while getting Viciedo into the lineup. We have no idea who the trades will be for.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) Hypothetically, would you still say that if the Tigers acquire a starter like Fister and another piece maybe? Yes. But honestly, I don't care what they do, as long as they get good players back. I think the market is set up for us to make a bit of a killing if we go out there and deal some pitching. And as much as I would miss Quentin, I wouldn't mind seeing what Viciedo could do out there. So if we can get some good talent in here for Quentin/Jackson/Thornton, so be it. But can you say White Flag Trade II?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:14 PM) SELL KENNY! Hell no....this division is there for the taking.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:05 PM) I'd have been shocked if he were taken out. Better to lose with your best on the mound (who is used to throwing that many pitches) than with somebody from your iffy bullpen. We'll see if Valverde can finish it, I'd assume he'll pitch the 9th. I thought for sure PK was going to take him about 20 rows deep because he would be afraid to throw him the offspeed s*** again.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 09:00 PM) Swing the f***ing bat! Impressive balls shown by Verlander there. I can't believe they left him in to face Konerko.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 01:36 PM) If I had to bet Id say the Sox arent getting him. If the Sox make any moves it would be small ones (ie thornton). I hope trading Matt Thornton is more than a small move...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) You could easily substitute Dayan Viciedo in there... Absolutely...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) The point buried here is that all of y'all are arguing that what we'd be doing with this trade is acquiring an .850+ OPS corner OF (his defense in CF is below Rios's if you believe Fangraphs) while paying the price for a .740 OPS corner OF who is sorta on the bench. I just have a lot of trouble believing that this would work out as easily as we want. That no one else would step in with a better offer if they thought he was a .850 OPS CF, that the Cardinals would part with him for the price of a .740 OPS corner OF even if he was in the manager's doghouse. Despite the fact that Steve watches the Cardinals "like a Hawk," the fact is that hardly anyone here sees Colby Rasmus like they do our own players. Thus, all his flaws can be dismissed and we can only glorify him as the player the enormous expectations once said he would be. It doesn't matter that he doesn't get along with one of the most respected managers in baseball, it doesn't matter that he has been inconsistent and regressed offensively, it doesn't matter that he is unhappy on one of the most respected teams in baseball, in one of the best baseball cities in America....no, all that matters is that he's Colby Rasmus!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) I'm serious. If you can get Colby Rasmus, who is better than any prospect we are going to get for either Thornton or Jackson, you do it in a heartbeat. So you dismiss the impact that 4 prospects could make by dealing them separately? I'm not someone who usually demands "character" guys, but this guy just rubs me the wrong way.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:02 PM) It really depends on a ton of other information that we have no concept of knowing. Who all is interested? How highly do the Cardinals value both Jackson and Thornton? What do the Cardinals believe is full value for Colby Rasmus? I could ask questions all night, but the fact of the matter remains, Rasmus is still a very talented young CF who has put up very good numbers before, has had an absolute falling out with LaRussa, and could be acquired. The absolute most I give up is Jackson, Thornton, and a prospect. I start with Jackson/Thornton plus a prospect, and then concede Jackson and Thornton for Rasmus and a small minor league piece, and I adamently try to stay right there until I absolutely have to do something else. Just look at the market...you're going to have 8-10 clubs interested in both Jackson and Thornton if you make it known you will move them. I don't like Rasmus as much as many of you guys apparently do.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) Santiago throws it 94 and has a decent breaking pitch and Sale and Ohman work just fine in the bullpen anyways. As much as I like Matt Thornton, saving $5.5 mill over the next two years along with another million for the buyout (and another million for the rest of the season) would be nice. The only three prospects I don't give up right now are Viciedo, Reed, and Thompson. Otherwise, with maybe another exception here and there, pretty much anybody else is free game. My argument is not that I wouldn't trade Thornton. It's that I wouldn't trade both Jackson and Thornton. Not for a guy with question marks.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) People also are ignoring the fact that elite relievers come and go. Linebrink used to be elite, what's happened to Jonathan Broxton? Brian Wilson wasn't always this good. What happened to Bobby Jenks? George Sherrill was good for 10 minutes. Joe Nathan. Cliff Politte. I could go on and on and on and on and on. Relievers are the MOST unpredictable players in baseball. Matt has a 95 mph fastball in a mostly PED-free league coming from the left side. Check out guys like that....they usually pitch as long as they want to.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) In my best Peter Griffin impersonation...What!!!? Jackson is GONE after this year. Thornton is a reliever who failed miserably as a closer and will be making almost $6 million dollars next year. For Rasmus? See ya! Have you bothered to check what elite setup men are making these days? Especially elite lefthanders?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 06:49 PM) Really, if you can get Colby Rasmus for the mistake that is Edwin Jackson, plus Matt Thornton's old ass, plus a relief spect, you do it immediately. This rumor clearly isn't true, or else Kenny would have made the deal already and then put TCQ on the open market. Yikes... I don't quite get it why no wants to look at the value of pitching in this market right now...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 03:11 PM) Rasmus has talent. I just wonder about the attitude. There's something there the Cardinals despise. I'm sure the White Sox aren't going to like it eventually either. If he puts it together, the deal is a steal. If not, you're out 2 months of Jackson and a few years of paying a 35 year old plus Matt Thornton a lot of money. I would make this trade as long as I was satisfied Rasmus isn't going to become a problem in a few weeks. I can understand that point of view...but I am not looking at Jackson as "a guy we're going to lose in two months." I'm looking at Jackson as a sub-4 ERA SP in a market where there really are no others. And I am looking at Matt as a lefthanded elite bp arm who throws 96 mph. How many of those might be on the market? That's all I'm saying... If we were to trade both for a guy like Rasmus, I would understand...but I just think we could maximize our return by trading them separately.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) I'd be THRILLED at adding a premium, young, cost-controlled talent like Rasmus at the cost of a pitching enigma that we're going to lose after this season anyway and a 35-year old reliever who will no longer be the bargain he's been starting next year. This team needs young talent that it can control multiple years like I need this six-pack of MGD I'm about to destroy. But wouldn't you want to see what the market would bear for them individually?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 01:27 PM) You obviously chose not to read the line about the .860 OPS as a full-time CF at age 23. What team (realistically) could give us more for Jackson than Rasmus? I'm not saying more for one of them...I am saying more for both of them...

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) Ya, that's absolutely not going to happen. Whether you like it or not, Rasmus still has a LOT of value. Guys who put up .860 OPS at age 23 in CF don't grow on trees. Jackson would be a rental and Thornton is 35 and making good money. The 2 of them for Rasmus not only frees up a lot of money, but it also gives you a cornerstone to build around for a long time that you can pair with the big Cuban guy you have sitting in AAA. The Sox would be dealing from an area of strength where they have a surplus (and valid replacements) to improve (potentially long-term) an area of weakness. Not many GM's in the league, if any, would hesitate moving Jackson/Thornton for Rasmus. I'd agree with you except for around this time of year...and in this pitching market...were you to make it known these two were available, I think you could do better...there aren't many SP's on the market with sub-4 ERAs and not many southpaw relievers throwing 96 out there right now...

You guys don't think he'll be back for one more inning?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) Thanks guys. So if the Cards have already pulled him out of the starting spot, that ought to impact his trade value as well. The issue from the Cards' perspective is the other two outfielders are Matt Holiday and Lance Berkman...it all works well if they remain healthy, but...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) Hypothetically from the Cardinals side, if they were to trade Rasmus to the Sox somehow...who would take over CF for them? John Jay?

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) i hope you are right but i disagree. i dont think we will get more than rasmus for him, either in a trade or a comp pick I don't think we will either. What I am saying is we shouldn't have to deal one of the only effective starters AND left handed relievers on the market for Rasmus. If we really wanted to trade these two, we should be able to get 3-4 fairly high quality prospects for them. I'd take that over Colby Rasmus right now. If they traded Edwin straight-up for Rasmus tonight, I could live with that.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) i dont see us winning the division with this offense. but this trade isnt happening anyways Well Edwin and Thornton for Rasmus is silly. Edwin is going to be worth quite a bit starting tomorrow morning, with this pitching market.

I wouldn't do this...Edwin + Matt are worth more than another problem child. I still think we owe it to ourselves to ride Edwin out and win this division. My guess is if it gets done it will be Matt and a minor leaguer not named Viciedo.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) Desmond Jennings was called up........ 2 for 3 with 2 walks and a double and a triple...oh, and 2 runs scored...and a stolen base...nice little debut for him...