iamshack

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 05:11 PM) His contract goes thorugh 2012 right? Next offseason this might start weighing on people. They're nto paying 2 coaches for 2 years He is under contract through 2011 with an option for 2012. The option becomes guaranteed if the White Sox win the division in 2011, so it better become guaranteed

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 05:11 PM) This is true. They could fire Ozzie for phiolosophical differences or any number of things HE said or did. If the Sox came out and said the are firing him for things his son said, you can bet there would be legal and contractual issues. The critical point here is that you want Ozzie gone, the Sox don't. I never said I wanted Ozzie gone. But we're approaching a point in which I could come to that conclusion. And as to your second point, they could come out and say they fired him because his son is a loud mouth and cannot keep White Sox business private. There really is nothing Ozzie could do about it.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 05:05 PM) We haven't even gotten into the legal ramifications if the Sox fired Ozzie based on the actions of his adult child not employed by the Sox. This is a non-issue. There are no legal ramifications. They can fire Ozzie for whatever the hell they want. All they have to do is pay out the term of his contract.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:58 PM) That is not how life works. People don't get fired at work for something their adult children do. We've had employees children hired for summer help, the kids screw up and while they won't hire the employees children again, they don't hire the employee. the last time Oney made an ass of himself the sox fired him. I have not seen major ramifications from that episode. Oh yes it is. Let's get something straight...companies build cases against employees they want fired all the time. Yes, they usually do not just fire an employee with a sterling record at the workplace, but they can certainly document every misstep that that employee makes until they have enough ammunition to fire the employee. In the case of Guillen, first of all, they don't have to build a case, because the White Sox are a private organization. Illinois is not a right to work state, and so the really don't even have to fire Ozzie for cause. They are not accountable to any stockholders and they really only need to worry about their reputation amongst the players, the fans, and major league baseball. Finally, there are already so many other reasons they can fire Ozzie, they really don't even need to use this particular one. They can fire Ozzie Guillen today and say there are philosophical differences. They were going to trade him to the f***ing Marlins, for Christ's sakes...

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:49 PM) This is unreasonable. You do not have control over another person. You can ask them not to talk about things which I'm sure has been done. Since Oney is no longer employed by the Sox all the organization can do is to ask Ozzie not to talk about cetain things with his family. Ozzie may or not have given the info to Oney. If Oney got the info first hand then as his time with the Sox is further removed he will no longer have any info to pass along. Ozzie should state that he does not agree with what his so did but that Oney needs to stand alone because he is an adult (at least chronologically). It's not unreasonable at all. The White Sox didn't hire Oney because he was some genius in the video-editing room or something. They gave him a job as a favor to Ozzie. Every one of the privileges that Oney has been given are a result of the fact that his father is the manager of the Chicago White Sox. If you read back in the thread, I supported Ozzie's natural desire to share parts of his life with his family, and that includes his work experiences. I have no problem with him telling his family about his job. But when you've got a high-profile job, your family has to respect that, and not share that information with the press or really with many people at all. Not only has Oney done that, but he SEEKS out the press to share this information with others. He USES the fact that his father is in a high-profile position for his own gain. Obviously Ozzie can't force Oney to stop doing this, but what the Organization will eventually decide is that if Ozzie cannot stop his family members from sharing sensitive or private White Sox business with the press or with the public via Twitter, then it will sever all ties with the Guillen family. It will remove any chance of the Guillen family having this information from occurring. And it will do that by firing Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) Come on, Cam Newton? How is an NCAA ruling even close to this? I understand we dont agree on the Ozzie topic, but lets keep the discussion on target instead of my opinions on completely irrelevant topics. And yes Oney is an idiot. I just dont know what a father can do to his grown up son to stop him from doing anything. For all we know Ozzie could have told him to shut the f*** up and he didnt listen. Well, you're the one that started with the football analogies... Well that's just too bad, Rock. If he can't control what his son says, then he should have never trusted him to bring him in the Clubhouse and be around White Sox business. He should be fired. Sorry, but that is how life works.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) But they already fired Oney. He's not connected to the White Sox. See, now you're pointing out that they actually had to FIRE the manager's son. But you are shocked that anyone would now ask Ozzie to publicly denounce this same son? It's clear the kid is an absolute fool and Ozzie needs to completely separate his relationship with his son from his job with the White Sox.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) At what age do you no longer have responsibility for your children's actions? It's not an issue of someone wanting to punish Oney for his actions. It's an issue of Oney having access to information based solely on his father's position with the Organization, and then having that information spewed all over Twitter. And in the real world, especially the part of it where huge dollars are at stake, if you can't maintain the integrity of your organization or the potential for its success is jeopardized, whether you are directly responsible or not, you get fired. It gets determined that you can no longer be entrusted to lead. The world is not fair. Game over. Secondly, I've seen you argue that the ruling on Cam Newton is bogus, because now players can just claim they knew nothing and their parents did all the negotiating. Well this is the inverse. Now we'll just have Ozzie's kid do all the talking and he can claim he is not responsible for any of it. Just like Balta claimed early on in this discussion. It's all bs. Ozzie is responsible for that clubhouse. To claim it is not within his scope or that he is not responsible because his child is an adult is oversimplifying the issue drastically and burying your head in the sand because you support Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) Thats not what happened. Oney knows this stuff first hand, he's been close to Bobby for years. And why have Bobby and Oney been close? Because they met in Spirit Lake, Idaho? Did they play American Legion ball together?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 04:11 PM) So Ozzie should kill his kid? Oney is a 25 year old fan of the team, he is an adult. Ozzie is the manager and had nothing to do with anything you are debating. It may seem like a good platform for you to continue to call for his head, but this is outside of his scope. Maybe you should educate him on how to beat his grown up kids into silence? Where are you getting the beating and killing from? Jesus, no one ever even hinted at that. Secondly, if you think Ozzie has nothing to do with this, and this is outside his scope, you're absolutely kidding yourself. Ozzie brings his kids into the fray, which is fine by me, lots of managers do it. But if his kids are not mature enough to understand what needs to stay behind closed doors and what is ok to talk about, then yes, that reflects poorly on Ozzie and ultimately he is responsible for it. No one has the right to force Ozzie to do anything in relation to how he handles his family. But if his family continues to make the Organization look poorly because of the privileges extended to Ozzie's family due to his position as manager, whether in the past or present, then Ozzie will be fired. This is the real world and this crap is not tolerated. To say it's outside of his scope or not his responsibility or that he had nothing to do with it is just not true.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:02 PM) You expect him to go public denouncing his son? Apparently you dont understand how close that family is. I am sure there has been something said to the team, and if not, there will be. Of course you wont hear anything about it I respect their right to be close as a family, but if this sort of thing is going to happen, then apparently "they" have no business managing a major league baseball team. This is not some AAA team in Bumf***, Nowhere or Caracas.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:37 PM) Like Adam Dunn and Jessie Crain. Well, to be fair, Balta, those guys signed before this latest incident, which, IMO, is by far the worst of the bunch.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) True. However he did resign indicating that while a distraction this type of thing isn't a primary factor when determining where they want to sign a contract. Yeah, but he's been here his entire career, basically. That's a little different than someone who has no ties here and didn't win a championship here, with this manager.

I've been reading Keith Richards' Life on and off for about a month now. Pretty interesting read for any Stones fan. I am shocked that he can remember as many details as he can...the guy is a lot brighter than I anticipated.

QUOTE (The Gooch @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 02:24 PM) Thats awesome. What if you wanted to sell something to them? Is there like a screening process to try and sell stuff to the guys on the tv show? How far is the shop from the strip? It's about 2 miles north of me, not far at all. I went on a Saturday and it was very busy. I had to wait in a line just to get in. There were a lot of people inside and there are signs that say "cameras filming: smile!" or something like that. There area where they go in the show when they "write someone up" is a little area off in the corner. That is the only area where there aren't cameras aimed. I went over there and asked a guy if they might be interested in buying my bike and he said "Bring it back in a month. With the addition we're adding on all the bikes we have are getting wrecked." I've heard that they close the shop down when they film most of the show, which is why it always looks quiet in there. They must tell the people who bring in interesting things to come back at a specific time in which they film the show, so they can do it all at one time.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) lol. Oh my goodness. Will somebody show me where in the 10 commandments that it's forbidden to get drunk during the day? I'm off from work, bored as hell and I had some Whiskey. Big deal. J4L, What you do is your own business. You just keep mentioning it lately, that's all.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:52 PM) It's getting close to intervention time with you. Yeah honestly, it's like 1 pm on a Thursday...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 01:51 PM) There really is no wrong answer honestly, some teams will benefit more from either method. I think it makes sense that the Bears should play as hard as they can, that seems like what this team needs...but there's no prima facie reason whyHanie couldn't play the whole game and the Bears could wind up in the Super Bowl. Well, I really agree with your point about the Bears starting to play better offensively...I almost wish we had a couple more games because I think we are really starting to see them click. I don't want to squash that momentum by playing some half-assed game plan or by not playing Cutler at all really. Secondly, I really, really would like to take these Packers out of the playoffs. I think they're just as dangerous if not more dangerous than any other team in the NFC, and would love to eliminate them while we have a chance.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:47 PM) I'd see how the game is going. Prepare normally. If the game is close the whole way, the starters play the whole way. If Cutler pulls a Grossman, then Hanie and the backups get the 2nd half. You've already got the bye week to get healthy if someone tweaks anything. The Bears are a team that is actually getting better as the season goes along, esp. on offense. Gametime offense practice = useful. Wow, someone that actually agrees with me...I've been arguing all morning with friends about this.

I learned that Tim Hasselbeck isn't particularly a fan either. Yay for loser quarterbacks that work for espn hating the Bears! It's like they see Jay and his bad mechanics and want him to suck because they did... Anyways, what would you guys do this Sunday...play the starters the whole game? Play them half the game? Not play them at all?

QUOTE (The Gooch @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) No, Pawn Stars is awesome. I went down there a few weekends ago to get a tshirt for my stepdad and ran into Chummly as he was leaving...he had to run to a magazine shoot for his tattoos with Big Hoss. Pretty funny how big of a celebrity he is there....everyone was grabbing at him and stuff.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) I know it's been slow around here. But are people really THAT concerned/bothered with this Ozzie/Oney/Jenks crap? Who cares. Let's drink. I just think it's another negative incident that piles up on top of all kinds of negative incidents. I have been very supportive of Ozzie over the years, but the guy seems to think he is Tony Montana and he can do whatever the hell he wants, every one else be damned. Well, that has to change, or he needs to be somewhere else.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 06:57 AM) What did the White Sox do to develop Gordon Beckham? My point being, he was pretty much at that point. This was not a guy they took in the third round as a draft and follow. Everybody knew what he was, and this was pretty much common knowledge within the major draft publications. The only argument was to what his ceiling was. Ditto Chris Sale. He appeared in 11 games in the minor. 11. GAMES. Either the White Sox have the best ever system at developing guys ultra quickly, or he was ready when he was drafted. I'm not knocking the organization for recognizing a player like this, but when people want to give them credit for "developing" him I think it's pretty hyperbolic. And I'll say it again. Pretty much every team can name two guys that they recently drafted that are up with the big club. I think White Sox fans as a whole fall in love with prospects so much because for this club, they're so rare that they actually come up to the big leagues and are as good as advertised. No one is trying to argue that the White Sox developed these guys. But you're giving them no credit for spotting the first guys to make it to the big leagues in those two drafts? To rate a minor league system, or the White Sox ability to produce MLB ballplayers, which, last time I checked, ultimately is the entire purpose of a minor league system, and then to disregard Beckham and Sale is absolutely nonsensical. Like Scenario said, maybe had we drafted Lonnie Chisenhall in 08' instead of Beckham our system would be rated better.

All I know is I would rather take a shot at eliminating the Packers from the playoffs while we have the chance.

It's one thing to hear Ozzie is a goof, or Ozzie is crazy, or whatever. It's another thing to hear or read in print Ozzie's kid say a player is a crybaby, discuss his use of alcohol or drugs, discuss incidents out at a bar, discuss the current state of that player's marriage, etc. You guys can downplay it all you want, but there are players in the MLB who will not even want to touch that situation, or maybe they would come here but would always be guarded. How that is beneficial to us, I dunno...but you guys keep making stuff up to make yourselves feel better.