JUSTgottaBELIEVE

I guess the Sox should have cheated better or manipulated a previously highly flawed international signing process. Funny that Theo and the gang stopped having success after mlb closed the loophole on the flawed INT signing process. Funny how that works.

They did it better alright ? https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/story/braves-lose-13-prospects-gm-banned-for-life-in-international-signing-scandal-112217?amp=true

? exactly my point as well. Their best pitchers simply did not match up with the Astros offense. Tough break. It happens.

Have the Sox not improved each of the last three seasons? We don’t know what this season will bring yet so no point in discussing it. Did they improve from 2019 to 2020 to 2021? Yes or no?

You didn’t answer my question because you know there are no amount of deadline moves that the FO could have made last year to get them past the Astros. But that’s doesn’t fit your narrative. simply put, the 2021 Sox did not match up well with the 2021 Astros. It’s that simple. It happens.

So if the Sox added those three guys at the deadline last year they beat the Astros?

There are no amount of trade deadline moves that the FO could have made last year that would have gotten them past the Astros. Convince me otherwise. You really think if the Sox added what the Braves did at the trade deadline that it would have put them over the top in a series against the Astros?

Why is it an either/or? Can’t we credit them for all they’ve done well while criticize them for what they’ve done poorly? Too many extremes here from some posters while the truth is somewhere in the middle. Up to this point, I’d give the front office a solid B for how they’ve handled the rebuild. The next 2-3 years will dictate whether that B turns into an A or a C.

Yet, you were just praising the Braves acquisitions of old men like Duvall, Soler, and Rosario.

And the Sox haven’t progress each of the last four seasons (2019 to today)? What are you even arguing?

Also, it’s kind of funny people here say the Astros and Braves FO did things the “right way.” Let’s just pretend the Astros cheating scandal never occurred or the Braves international signing scandal never happened.

Exactly. Sometimes you need a little luck. By most measures, the 2021 Braves was the worst team they fielded of the four playoff teams they fielded between 2018 and 2021. They got hot at the right time last year.

So the Braves lost in the first round of the playoffs during the first two years of their contention window…isn’t that exactly what the White Sox did the last two years? What am I missing?

Trading for Pollock and Haseley this offseason wasn’t the front office admitting they needed OF help?

You’re focusing solely on the negative like caulfield. I already said they haven’t been perfect, there’s no denying that, but they’ve made plenty of really good moves as well. The trade for Lynn has been great, even if he misses 10 starts this season. The acquisition of Hendriks has been great. The acquisition of Grandal has been good. I think the trade for Pollock will turn out very good. The farm still has enough at the top to swing a big trade deadline deal this year if needed or a few smaller ones. Before their very surprising postseason run last year, many Braves fans were having the same doubts you are today. For most of last season, they didn’t even think they’d make the playoffs and were beginning to wonder if their window was already closed. Their rebuild course towards a title was anything but smooth sailing.

LOL. Yea, I’d say acquiring a guy that finishes third in Cy Young voting in his first season with the team is “fine.” Why no mention of Hendriks? He was AL reliever of the year in his first season with the Sox. I guess that’s only “fine” too.

And despite all of that, the Sox have been in the postseason the last two years (first time in franchise history) and have the 7th best World Series odds this season, which is post Lynn injury it was even higher prior to the injury. They’re very much World Series contenders this year and next year at a minimum. They haven’t been perfect by any means but it could be far worse and the contention window is very much still open.

I know everything the Sox do is bad in your eyes but I thought Lynn and Hendriks were pretty great last season. I’m not a big fan of Grandal but most would consider him a big success as well. Or do those three not count as veteran acquisitions?

Why does every rebuild have to follow the same path? The Braves didn’t win a title until year 4 of their contention window and they only won a title because they signed/traded for a bunch of old dudes (Soler, Arnaud, Duvall, Rosario, Pederson, Morton, Chavez, Smith), the very thing you’re criticizing the Sox for doing.

But caulfield is giving the cubs credit for Cease. Can’t have it both ways. Q also bombed with the Cubs (compared to expectations and what they gave up) and bloated the payroll during his time there. So if we’re giving the Cubs credit for Cease’s success it’s only fair to give the Sox credit for Madrigal’s success.

Ok, etch this one in stone. Same with Collins, Pilkington and any other Sox draftees that they trade in the future like they have in the past (Semien, Bassitt, etc). We’ll give the Sox all the credit for those guys since they drafted them. Good to note.

I mean we’re in year two of their true contention window (not counting 2020 because that team was largely a surprise much like the 2015 cubs) so I think it’s premature to make any sweeping generalizations or conclusions at this point. If three years from now the Sox still haven’t made it past the first round of the playoffs I would agree that the rebuild has been a big disappointment even if they win the division each of the next three seasons.

So if Madrigal becomes an all star second basemen, which team will you give credit to? Sox or Cubs? Since you seem to be giving the Cubs credit for Cease.

The Cubs weren’t successful because of their drafting. They were successful because of their trades and international signings. You might not want to admit it but the course of both rebuilds have looked extremely similar in the sense that the Sox rebuild is also primarily centered around trades (Eloy, Kopech, Giolito, Cease, Lynn, Lopez, Moncada) and international signings (Robert, Abreu).

There’s no question the Astros did a great job of drafting during their rebuild. They’re the exception, not the rule. Another poster pointed to the Cubs as drafting very well during their rebuild but their drafting during that period looks very similar to what the White Sox have done. Again, I don’t think this is unusual (see Pirates, Orioles, Rangers, and countless other bottom feeders over recent years that have struggled to build around the draft despite a number of high selections). What the Astros have done is unusual.