Texsox

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 10:26 AM)

To me the only interesting conversation, and certainly the only worthwhile one, is what criteria, or what code was written and run, that produced these results. Someone set the parameters, what were they? What values were placed on health, starting pitching, defense, schedule, etc. etc. etc.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 09:07 AM) hope Walker can fix him So much can be said about that phrase.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 08:51 AM) Gangs aren't terrorists, that's a ridiculously wide brush to paint with that will leave your canvas messy. Their motivation isn't political, it's money. As I said, it is admittedly a stretch. Just trying to help Rock out with his pot dealers support terrorism comment. They do share some characteristics such as the use fear, intimidation, threats of violence, etc. The difference is they provide services to the neighborhoods. The orderly distribution of drugs. The organization of gambling. The management of prostitution.

I'm kinda digging the one year @ cheap and trying to catch some lightening over different guys 5 @ lots. What the hell.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 08:17 AM) You're right, it is, marijuana is grown in places like Kentucky or California for example. There are shady ties (criminal, but not necessarily terrorist, at least not directly or to a large extent) but this is mostly because it's illegal. If it was legal there would be nothing to hide, and the likelihood of someone growing and directly using the money to support terrorism here in this country is pretty low because it would be stupid. With other drugs those are imported from overseas. So you have places like Colombia which is the most notorious, and Afghanistan which needs no explanation. For a while I thought the tobacco lobby had a chance to legalize marijuana. They had the cash to compete with the alcohol lobby, were losing jobs, crippling regions. But they have become such outcasts that they do not have the political might anymore. It also becomes how you define terrorism. For most, we think of international terrorists. If you take it to a local level, and include gangs and such, which is a stretch, perhaps the comment holds more validity.

With all his choices, slipping across a border, taking up in a new town, divorce and bankrupt, etc. he choose this path. And for that I applaud him. He has offered us entertainment. He has offered us a brief respite in our day to think about how f***ed up his life is and how much better ours are. What a selfless and caring man.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 08:19 AM) Its amazing already how many of the pointless arguements have switched side, yet the things that remain important aren't really changing. Am I the only one thinking that after the 8-9 weeks between the election and inauguration? We will fail internally. We are our own worse enemy One person, even as President, can not move our country more than a nudge We all know this, but prefer debate at this level instead of the serious and hard decisions that need to be made Minor stuff is the wins and losses in elections

Correct me if my perceptions are wrong. Comparing a couple sox pitchers. Wednesday afternoon in May before a crowd of 6,000 Colon goes 6 innings, gives up 5 earned, appears almost asleep. Freddy goes 7 gives up 5 at home, 3 on the road Javy goes 8, gives up 1 earned Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun Saturday night in late September at Yankee stadium, playoff spot on the line. 70,000 fans Colon goes 8, gives up 3, filthy in the 6-7-8 Freddy goes 8, gives up 3, pissed he's pulled, wants to finish Javy goes 3, gives up 8, leaves no out and the bases loaded. May have crapped/pissed his pants Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) True, and I don't get nearly enough opportunities to enjoy them with kids around. Had a nice Fuente Hemingway Christmas week along with a wee dram of Laphroaig outside on a brisk night and it was wonderful. The person below me has bought some manner of lottery ticket this month. False. I hate schools. Unless you count that drink I bought for this really hot chick . . . The person below me thinks at least one their professors is hot.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) As far as ties to terrorism that is more of an issue with cocaine and opium etc. than it is with marijuana. That's pretty much what I thought, but I believe rock is more of an expert in that area and find it easier to accept his statement than try to refute it. It seems the point of origin is much closer with pot than other drugs.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 06:10 AM) Why is that so funny? There are commericials telling people to play the lotto to support public education. The lottery is yet another vice that is only in place for financial reasons that you curious didn't notice. I guess once it's legal you don't really care what others do with their money. Perhaps youd feel the same way if pot was legal. I have stated many times that the financial reason is the best reason to legalize pot and why I favor that action. And if legal, rock should be the smokesperson for pot. He's even stated it is safer than water. People have OD from water, but not pot. As he has pointed out, more people have died in water related deaths than pot. That kind of blind devotion and worship is a wondrous thing and should be rewarded. But if I am understanding rock, and others here, The increased tax revenue to fund schools and roads would be a good, perhaps noble thing. The believe better schools and roads are important projects and a huge benefit to society. They are willing to spend more in taxes to support those projects, but ONLY if the government allows them to get high. So I wonder if they really believe in those projects or they just want legal pot. Come on, if those projects are that important and beneficial, why only pay the taxes if it comes with a joint? Every so-called victimless crime opens up the same line of financial reasoning. We are against the crime until it contributes something positive to society. Usually that contribution is monetarily. People will pay for their vices. Eventually I see almost every victimless crime being legal, with pot perhaps being the next one to fall. Gambling, prostitution, etc will also eventually fall to the same line of reasoning. We'll have plenty of tax revenues when there are hookers and bookies in every neighborhood and every drug is legal. I'm not certain how that makes for a better society. But we will have some kickass roads and schools. Kids learn of the faulty science, racism, and propaganda from almost one hundred years ago and believe that is why pot *remains* illegal today. There have been many bad laws that get dropped, overturned, forgotten, and changed. Pot *remains* illegal for much different reasons today. Alcohol lobby Easy, cheap, fast, reliable, testing for marijuana use The leaders of today grew up during the drug culture of the 60s and 70s and see the downside. They have made most chemically altering substances harder, not easier to use. Pot being caught in the "Just Say No" drug net. Thirty years of encouraging less time under the influence, not more. The appearance, and probably it is, of "selling out". Anti-smoking (anything) campaigns Questionable (trading a bigger vice for smaller) or no societal value beyond financial. And the facts are correct that far worse substances like alcohol are legal, but beneficial substances, like antibiotics, are only available with a prescription. In many countries, like Mexico, those are over the counter. So our pharmacology is all over the map. It always will be. I use to believe, at the minimum, it should be decriminalized, but rock mentioning the ties to terrorism makes me rethink that. It probably then needs to be all or nothing. Legal or illegal. I agree it should be legal, but do not agree that increased pot smoking will make this a better country. The population will not become healthier. Productivity will not increase. We will not see an increase in intellectual breakthroughs. The only benefits will be financial, and if those benefits where that important, people would have already voted the higher taxes necessary. So we really do not place that high a value. It's just an excuse to get high and watch the tube.

For all the reasons I dislike Javy, are the reasons I like Colon. Wish he was a few years younger and healthier. But if we have to take a chance on someone, I'll take a guy that pitches better the closer to October.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 05:24 PM) I honestly think that having an opinion on what is dangerous, what is pot-related danger, and what are the differences between pot and other drugs depends entirely upon first hand experience. Also if you can find some statistics on marijuana related deaths then there is your proof, its not exactly a debate. Does it impair your ability to drive? Sure, but about as much as having the flu, taking Day-Quil, or any other very simple parts of life. Regulation of use and a warning is the way to get around that. Talking on your cell phone is more dangerous these days. As far as the gateway part, there isnt a magic drug dealer store, each product comes from a different part of the world, different countries, different sources, its not exactly easy to find a wal-mart of illegal substances. And a financial benefit to the country, city, state, and county is a societal benefit. If a 10 year old gets to go to a school with better facilities and is taught by a teacher who has had a better education because of taxes collected on marijunana sales, then it DOES benefit society without being a user. Not sure about your "vitamin" comment. Marijuana has been proven to have medicinal purposes if that was your question. Also even though you cant smoke in a handful of cities or states across the country indoors, it wouldnt exactly harm the user base since walking down the street would be a huge boon for the industry anyway. I agree there is a financial benefit. I agree that is the single best reason to legalize it. The death question is fine. You believe if someone dies high in an accident, it is not pot related. I disagree. Just like a drunk driver fatality is alcohol related death, so to is a fatality from driving high. Now tell me no one has ever gotten in an accident when high. You believe pot is a miracle drug. You can't wake someone pretending to be asleep. So I am done. Rock's plan to fix schools and roads? We need more poeple drunk and stoned in this country! Dammit! Get high and support school kids!!

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 04:53 PM) The taxes on the pot would make millions for states and the government. The fast food industry will have more demand. Less people will abuse more addictive yet legal substances (pain relievers, alochol) in favor of a substance that gives better effects and can not be lethal directly. I honestly believe if pot was legal, there would be a good number of people who would stop drinking alcohol. A drug that physically destroys the body, causes the users to be aggressive leading to abusive behavior, and that in turn would reduce some violence and drunken driving. We've been over this before, and you try to spin the argument, but driving high is safer than driving drunk. I'm not saying I support driving high, but if we could replace all the drunk drivers in the world with stoned drivers, it'd be much safer. There would also be a lot less public urination/vomitting outside Wrigley Field, campus bar, and other places where binge drinking is part of the scene. I think society benefits from all of this. That is one of the best summaries I've read and some great material for thought. The financial benefits are obvious and I can not believe anyone would disagree. My first reaction would be, in a world where smoking cigarettes is getting harder and harder to do legally in public, wouldn't it be difficult to find places to smoke? Even some localities have banned smoking in bars and taverns. My only objection to the driving argument are those that claim they drive better high than sober. High or drunk is not safe. So whether it is safer drunk, stoned, on heroin, or acid doesn't matter. No one wants an impaired driver driving next to them and that argument would never be used to make pot legal. And I know people who agree with you, they agree to the point that they would never drive drunk, but will drive stoned. Again, not a good argument if you want pot legal. Again, everyone here seems to forget I favor legalizing, but I do so with an open mind. I do not see pot as this magical vitamin that has all these benefits and no costs.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) Truth is the market crash, GOP scandals, and GW Bush played a much larger role than Howard Dean. If things go badly during the Obama admin the GOP will likely make up ground, it's just how things work. All true, but as Dems remember, Bush was very vulnerable after his first term, and they did not win. Same as the GOP squandered a chance after Clinton's first term.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) False. Took Accounting and Finance Majors in a Business Degree, now I'm working for an Investment Bank, that is pretty much screwed ATM. The person below me will be seeing snow in their area tomorrow. False. Unless the world is ending The person below me enjoys a nice cigar

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 01:00 PM) Come on Tex, we've been at odds on this subject for awhile. I couldnt find the thread from March where you constantly cited different viewpoints on the subject, most of them being of the "gateway" variety which is an old standard for arguing against marijunana useage. I have several PM's stored from other members discussing the subject on that date. Maybe you have changed your tune here in this thread, but I am under the opionion that alot of your viewpoint comes from less experience in the realm, and if I am wrong I apologize. My experience comes from watching society for almost 50 years and what is, and is not, allowed, and how those changes come about. If you think I also need to smoke pot to understand, I disagree. People still get high and die. No change in my opinion. If you are high, and get in an accident, that is a pot related death. The same as if your were drunk. You disagreed. No need to rehash that. I clearly stated my gateway argument again, I'm not going to disagree with you. You clearly have more experience with terrorist sponsored (something you added) pot dealers and their inventories. I assumed your local pot dealer would have more than just pot. My mistake. And I see you are agreeing with me, the only benefit is financial. So you are asking society to allow another substance that has no health benefits to individual in exchange for cash. I agree it makes financial sense. Plus, we have sold out our values for a lot less. But as long as we are on a swing where we are being more restrictive on cigarettes (higher and higher sin taxes and less places to smoke) and tougher on alcohol (again higher and higher taxes) I do not see pot being legal anytime soon. It seems that you consider pot a vitamin, I'm not ever going to change your mind.

The entire "gateway" debate is silly. What difference is there between Gate > coffee > cigarettes > alcohol > pot > cocaine or coffee > cigarettes > alcohol > gate > pot > cocaine Since people seem to use this path, where do you want to place the gate? Does it really make a difference? I do not think so. It's a silly term and ultimately means nothing. Now, those that keep thinking pot is illegal from bad science and stuff. That just is not as much of a factor today. Today it is factors like the alcohol lobby and the lack of non-financial benefits to society. Complete this Society will benefit from more people getting high because . . . All of the benefits to society, and it is society that has to change the laws are financial. So far we have been willing to spend the money, stupidly in my opinion, to keep pot illegal. We have seen the negative effects of cigarettes and alcohol and have been making it harder, not easier, to use those substances. Why would society then reverse that trend and make another drug legal? Those are the kinds of forces that keep pot illegal.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 12:43 PM) Tex, you still didnt answer my question about your experience. Where do many of your viewpoints on this issue come from? Because a large portion of your arguments are extremely dated and really allign with older governmental viewpoints on drugs as a whole. That it should be legal based on financial and eliminating a potential gateway to other illegal drugs? I didn't think that was old fashioned?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 12:38 PM) Medical. And should be legal everywhere for that. With a 'script

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) True. If the Bears aren't in it...who cares? /subtlety, obviously true. The person below me didn't miss the fact that Tex said "blow me" in his post above. False, FlaSoxxJim said blow me and I forgave him because he's old. The person below me wishes they had thought more before picking their screen name.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) Whose society? Ours? Less funding of criminal and terrorist organizations for the gov, for users, more controlled distribution and higher potency. Are you suggesting your pot dealer or further up the chain has connections to terrorism? And how does higher potency help society?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 10:52 AM) What makes you think that all pot dealers have access to other drugs? That has to be one of the biggest stretches in this thread so far. Habitual marijuana users do not have an automatic desire to try cocaine, the drugs couldnt be more different. IN fact I would say 90 percent or more of the weed dealers I have known over the years had ZERO idea where to get other stuff. Well you just eliminated my biggest reason to legalize it. What benefit is their to society beyond financial?