bigruss

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Then if its such a smart decision, those who went to College shouldnt complain. I obviously made a conscious effort to get a College degree, so it stands to reason I believed that it was worth it. But if any of my friends started b****ing about going to College, Id really have little pity for them. The ones that are complaining are the ones that 1) Didn't do anything while in school to progress their job search or 2) chose a major that doesn't have a clear career path and did nothing to find a way to utilize the degree.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) Not everyone can have concrete plans. You are asking 18 year olds to make life decisions before they truly are ready. That is the problem with how expensive College is, you cant just go there and find out, you really need to already have a plan, which is so counterproductive to the College experience. No, Im asking them to at least go in a flexible major and have a GENERAL idea of what they want to do. I don't expect anyone to map out their career at the age of 18, college is a time to find out about yourself and your interests. By that I mean, major in English instead of Journalism, so you can teach, be an editor, etc compared to just be a journalist. If you get a history degree, know why you want one. Is it to improve writing and research skills? Is it because you want to teach? If you just have a passion for something, maybe it's best to have it as a second major or as a minor.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) I've learned in my interactions with people in my company that it is invaluable to learn how to deal with different personalities in different situations and understanding all the different political agendas at work. I'd think they'd teach you some things on how to deal with a lot of that nonsense in business programs...or at least you would learn it from the exercises and projects you worked on. I had an organizational behavior class, and our professor would set up class activities to learn things like negotiation skills, and how to work with introverts. It was very interesting to go through those activities, and much more useful than just reading a lesson from a book.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) So you think your College degree was worth it, that is great news. That does not change the fact for many it is is not worth it, nor will it ever be. Fine, they can skip college and try the job market on their own then. I bet 99% of the people that go down that path will wish they went to college, even if part of it was a "waste" of time.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) That was the point of the post. People can mock my History/Political Science degrees all they want, but the simple fact is, I chose to get the degrees I want and I make my own decisions, and I live with my own consequences. When things dont go right for me, I dont blame other people, I blame myself. No one is forced to go to College, but yet people want to force others in College to have to learn certain things so it makes their life easier. High School is already filled with that nonsense, requirements, etc. Its hard to feel sorry for people who made their own decisions and then dont want to take responsibility for where it got them. And it frustrates me to know that eventually College will become less of an intellectual challenge. If I mocked your degree, I didn't mean too. I just don't like the shortsightedness that is rampant in HS'ers and college students, and the fact that this shortsightedness than tends to cost the public tons of money. I never said one can't go for a History degree, I just suggested that they shouldn't go to a $50k/yr private school for it if their family can't afford it. And they also shouldn't go into that degree unless they have a general understanding of what they can do with it afterwards.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:07 PM) I guess i'm not communicating clearly. By focus I mean on actual skills, not learning the theory behind an abstract concept like globalization. Is some of that necessary as background info? Yes. But where I went to school they didn't do things like case studies or running a fake company or whatever. It was all textbook based. When you became a senior there was a little more of that real-world application, but it was still basically "learn X theory." I wish it was more case study based so that on a resume I could put did X and won X reward for being awesome. And again, yes, there are schools that do this. But the college experience for the vast majority of students, even good students, doesn't involve any of this. And it's partly the way the whole system is designed, which is just to establish that you went to school and got a degree, not how much you actually learned and can apply after graduation at your first job. We were swamped with case studies, case competitions, etc while I was in school. In fact, almost everyone of my major courses I had to either study a company and make suggestions, and in my IT courses I usually had to go to a local company and actually build something for them, such as an Access database.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) Wow...you're coming off as an elitist cocksucker in this post. Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) You mean you have skills that people learn in High School. Business degree is considered a joke by many. So once again, what real life skills should they have wasted my time with in College? Should they teach me to balance a check book, create a budget, tie my shoes? Those are things they taught me in elementary school. I went to College to be challenged, not to just use nonsense buzz words on my resume so I can get paid to mindlessly work. I learned to communicate, analyze and present?!?! Isnt that what they taught you in grade school? How to format an essay, how to present an argument, how to frame a debate? I just expect that people who are going to College already understand this. I went to a top high school in Michigan, took many AP courses, and none of them prepared me for work like my business degree did. Yes, there are games you have to play such as knowing buzzwords, but that's for anybody trying to get a job today and the business degree just teaches students how to better adapt to these games. Mindless work? Really? The mindless work I do saves my company thousands of dollars a year, and keeps the company running as efficiently as possible. In case you haven't noticed, companies need that to turn a profit, and need a profit to hire people. And no, HS helped but it had NOWHERE near the amount of in-depth skill development that I learned in college.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) But they're so worthless. No one I know LEARNED anything that they later used. Yes, you could self teach yourself all you want. You can do that for free without going to college. Unfortunately employers require that you show them a degree. This has nothing to do with what a student can/can't do, and everything to do with the way the entire system is set up - go to a bulls*** college and get a piece of paper and 4 years later pray you can get a job. Is this the case for all students? No. But the vast majority that's the way it works. And then 4 years later it's a big surprise when those bills start becoming due every month and you don't have a meaningful job because you thought getting a business degree would make you the next CEO of a company. Actually, I learned quite a bit about organizational management and behavioral theories. My business management degree was a mix of psychology and technical skills (along with my IT major which provided more technical skills but more importantly how to lead in IT). Learning how to work with others in group projects was also essential, and not as many majors encourage or stress that as much as a business major does. The thing is, even if you feel a business degree is bulls***, almost everyone that I know that graduated with one landed a $55k or higher job, which allows them to take that shock of paying bills much easier.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) Part of this is on the parents, as well. It seems like with many parents working more, there is obviously less parenting going on, which means less-prepared children. But maybe it's like what Frank Gallagher famously said..."Best gift a parent can give is neglect. Neglect fosters self-reliance." Oh yea, the parents have a huge say in this. How any parent who can't afford to send their child to college allows them to go to a private university costing $50k/yr without a ton of scholarship help is beyond me. It's an investment in that child's future, and risks should be included in the decision making process. And really, you can get a great education for half that price at a public university (or instate vs out of state) and the experience won't be too different. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:40 PM) But my point is the skills in those courses don't provide you with anything. College education should be more focused, and SOME schools do that, but not all. "Business" could apply to anything, how can a degree in "business" classes provide you with any skills in the real world? Same with political science. Most business schools have concentrates, some ones like USC, I believe, have a more general business degree but you take electives in a certain area that you are interested in, so it's a less formal concentration. At U of I, you go into Accounting, Finance, or Business Administration (International, Marketing, IS/IT, SCM, BPM, etc). QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) And my point is that they do, the students are just too damn stupid or lazy to understand what it is. College is not just a tax you pay so that you can be given a job when you complete it. I'm sure there are all sorts of things that one can learn in a business program. I listed the real world skills I learned from freaking my History degree, for the love of pete. Exactly, no matter what major you go into, you still have to market yourself to employers. This means a lot of involvement in organizations on campus, preparing yourself professionally for career fairs, interviews, networking, etc. A business/engineering major can greatly help your job search, but they don't hand anything to you. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) If you consider the alternative though, how many people really know the career they're getting into when they start college, or even when they finish? Isn't the usual statistic that most people wholly change careers 4+ times between college and retirement? Depends on what a "career" change really means. Do you mean a person going from managing in Supply Chain to managing in Marketing? Because yes, it's a different area, but at that point it's probably more that you are on a general management path.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:38 PM) How is earning $55k-$70k at age 22 a real life skill? Geez, you get these jobs because you have advanced skills in certain areas compared to other people, such as presenting, analyzing, communicating, etc. These skills are worth lots of money.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) Well, to be fair to those kids, they're being lied to. "Get a college education and your life is amazing" is the message, from teachers to the President. In reality, the education that students receive (for an insane amount of money) doesn't guarantee anyone that, and what's worse is that it barely prepares them for a future career. Specific education in specific fields should be how the system is set up, not a generalized post-high school education like we have now. Two of the most popular majors, Business and Political Science are 100% worthless in trying to get a job. Ummm what!? Business majors are some of the best majors to have to get a job.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) I dont know if you were coddled or not. Where I am going with this is people are saying that College should be more focused towards getting people jobs or real world skills, and Im saying there are plenty other places to learn that stuff, it shouldnt be in college. Seems straight forward to me. Where? What other places provide the ability to make $55-70k at the age of 22?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Why shouldnt I attend a $50k school if I can pay for it? Who are you to tell me how to spend my money and what I can spend it on? People complain about everything. People complain constantly, so we are going to change things to stop people from complaining? Thats ridiculous, so far no one has explained to me why we need to coddle these kids. Its so frustrating, from preschool through law school they just coddle everyone. Such a waste. How many students can truly afford a $50k/yr liberal arts degree, probably very few. Students need direction, from HS teachers and advisors, so they don't screw up their life by going to a school they can't afford and a degree that doesn't provide a living, because most high schoolers have no idea how expensive life is without mom and dad's help.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:12 PM) Im arguing that college should be whatever the person wants it to be. If I dont want to go to college to become prepared for whatever you consider "success" to be, then I shouldnt have to. I should have the freedom to take whatever classes I want, get whatever degree I want and do what I want. If that does not make me prepared for the real world, guess what, that is my problem. Why should I be punished because other people need their hand being held? Success is different for everyone. Success to me isnt about how many 0s are in my paycheck, success to me is about making a meaningful impact on the world, an indelible stain that you did something for the better. So yes, the point of college is to go to a place where hopefully for the first time you are meeting people who are equally thoughtful and intelligent, where you can actually test your mental might, instead of just bludgeoning weaker opponents. College is a place where hopefully you have professors etc, who challenge your preconceived notions and make you wonder what is really possible. If America is to succeed it will not be because we our society is perfect efficient machine, it will because of the creativity that flows from freedom. No real world application, how do you know unless you try? I guess I just dont think that there is a problem with getting classic liberal arts degrees, but you have to be getting them for the right reasons, you have to be okay with the fact that you may not be the richest person on the block. And maybe you shouldn't attend a $50k/yr private school for that liberal arts degree. The problem is, too many of these students go into these expensive schools, get degrees that don't have good prospective jobs, and yet still complain about college costs and the economy.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) Ok, so do you agree or disagree that they purposefully underproduce products to create a false sense of inflated demand? Anything else you get from that is just conjecture on your part. My disdain for Apple does not change the fact that what I've said today is true. It may be a factor, but really it's that they don't need to risk or invest in the time/resources to supply all they need for Day 1 sales at every single reseller. Also, as mentioned, ordering via online is easy, convenient, and delivers on-time.

Ha, well done there.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) I used to be just like you about 10 years ago, trust me...and then I actually gave one of their devices a chance... I've ordered two iPads and like 3 iPhones online at launch and two of them arrived at my home prior to the release date in stores... I used to be too cheap for Apple products back when I was in high school, then when I started having more money from working and looking at products I realized that their features and price actually were pretty fair (though their laptops are still pricey in my mind).

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) No, I am saying just because they may be upping their shipping times does not necessarily mean that the item is "flying off the shelves", it could just be yet another instance of them underproducing to create a stir. I made no comment about how I felt about this method or strategy, now did I? So don't say I am knocking them for it when I never said that. Oh please, your shtick here is to blast anything Apple does. QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) Due to.... Your lack of business acumen that you have clearly shown in this thread. A) The amount of demand is huge for Apple products upon their release dates, they do a great job marketing each release. B) The supply shortages are a part of releasing the product strategically, no consumer likes looking at a store full of unsold iPhones as they are about to make a brand new purchase. C) These products do take time to produce, and releasing a product from a line that has shown to have steady sales for months after release doesn't force them to risk bringing that amount of product out initially.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) I will say, I have NEVER gone over 2 gigs with 2 phones, not even close. I don't think I have either, since I am on wifi most of the time (though I do sometimes stream Netflix while working out at the facility located where I work, which requires 3G and that can add a load to it). That said, 2gbs for 2 phones per month may not be enough, and they don't even have any savings whatsoever to make that switch.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) You don't have to be so naive, trust me, you can change. Says the guy who knows NOTHING about business....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/verizon-ditc...-120639203.html Um, so it's just as expensive to have 2 devices on 2gb/mth individual data plans as it is to have them on a 2gb/mth "share everything" plans, at least have a bit of savings if you're going to halve the data limit!!

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) Yep. And Apple also underproduces their products at launch so that way people can talk about how fast they sold out of items. If people hear something is selling out fast, they are going to assume it must be awesome, and then want to get it. Point being? That it's good business? That Apple is there to make money? That you're knocking a company for wanting to market it's product as popular?

We would always have our N64 at our cottage, and then added an original xbox to the mix. We would never play during the day unless waiting for the shower after coming from the beach. We'd spend all day playing sports, on the beach, etc then come home to eat dinner, then would go back on the beach til it got dark out. Then we'd drink beers we snuck into the cottage and play video games at night, sometimes we'd go down to the beach at 3 or 4am.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 10:44 AM) i.e. niche market. I understand that they won't play Windows games, the Crysis thing was a joke. Not as much niche as you may think, there's a huge demand in business for graphic design capabilities.