beck72

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 02:43 AM) If KW does give up pitching...he'll be giving up pitching at the same time as the phillies will be paying an enormous chunk of that contract in order to get the pitching...thereby making it so that we can afford more pitching down the line. If KW can pull something like this off...I just hope he can get it done soon, just so that we don't find ourselves scrambling late in the market (i.e. the Cubs last year) that the sox have only a few needs to fill, they should be able to get things done rather quickly. Then, if they need to move to fill PK's shoes, they aren't scrambling late. If they do a Thome deal, my guess is it would be pretty soon near the GM meetings in in early Dec.

With Thome's no-trade clause, the Phils will have to get whatever they can for him because few other teams will be willing or able to take on his contract AND be team that Thome wants to play for. If the Phils eat a lot of his contract, he's very, very affordable. And wouldn't affect the sox ability to re-sign PK A deal centered around Marte and El Duque could be very plausible. Who th ePhils get isn't as important is leaving a spot open for Howard to play and getting some salary relief. If he can put up 2004 type numbers, he'd make the sox offense better.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 10:18 PM) The main problem is I don't see the Phils dealing Abreu, but if they can't unload Thome, than this could be their only option. Both Thome and Abreu have no-trade clauses. Getting a team to take on thome and to who he'll accept a trade to would be more difficult

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 03:44 AM) Nomas isn't going to play DH for any AL team as long as he thinks he can still play SS. Plus he is not ready for super sub play time. The guy plays SS not 2B or 3B. The key is what decent team will take him as their SS? Not many

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 03:34 AM) The Nomar idea is something that might be worth looking into. However, he would DH for the majority, but Nomar might sort of go under the radar this off-season. I think there is still some gas left in the tank with Nomar, and maybe with him strictly being a DH, he could hit .290-.300 again.... I think he could hit close to .300. It'll be interesting what he does--go to a mid level team as the starting SS or go to a good team as a DH?

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 03:33 AM) Nomar won't be playing DH next season. He should be, but he probably will get a SS gig somewhere

If the sox were looking at a right handed hitting DH [which I don't think will happen--maybe if he's a switch hitter], a guy like Nomar would be better than Piazza. I'm surprised LAA haven't been mentioned with them for DH.

Piazza isn't the answer

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 01:02 AM) No -- I think he's saying he'd rather give Giles a contract (which will probably be similar to that of Abreu's) than give up players along with the money for Abreu. IMO, it's still easier to acquire a guy via a trade than via free agency. And Abreu would be easier to get than convincing a guy like Giles to sign

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 14, 2005 -> 03:11 AM) Erm.. didn't we just resign Widger? And isn't Widger.. like.. Widger? I don't see us carrying three catchers. Piazza would mostly DH

QUOTE(Whitesoxfan56 @ Nov 13, 2005 -> 11:54 PM) Thats what I thought, but I wasnt sure. Thanks It would be huge long shot it the sox got either. But my money would be on Abreu. But a case could be made for either. IMo, it'd also be far easier to trade for one guy, than outbid a boatload of teams for an in demand free agent.

QUOTE(Whitesoxfan56 @ Nov 13, 2005 -> 11:46 PM) Is Dye better then Abreu if the field? I really dont know, but Bobby did win a GG, but Jermaine is solid in RF. He we got Bobby, that would be a good situation to have, like you said we can rest one or the other and have them DH By all accounts, Dye is better all around in the field. Abreu may have a better arm. But the Sox wouldn't be getting him for his glove. It'd would be for his bat. The same would apply to Giles. He'd Dh as well.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 13, 2005 -> 06:36 PM) I'm still shaking my head at the fact that Abreu won a GG. Seriously -- what the hell are these voters looking at? He ranked second to last among NL qualified RFers in ZR (out of eight), his Rate2 was below average at 97 (IIRC, 100 is average), and his Fielding Win Shares seem to be okay, but not particularly great at 3.7. To go along with that, in Tango's 'Fans Scouting Report', he ranked below average. He seems to be like Timo Perez defensively -- all he has is a good arm (he's fast, but doesn't seem to get the best reads, too). If the sox got Abreu he'd be mostly a DH. Though if he was serviceable he could play RF to rest Dye.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 13, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) $30 million for two years, or $48 million for 3 years. Bobby Abreu isn't anywhere close to being worth that. Wake up Sox fans. How did we win this year? By jettisoning the overpriced guys and filling the roster holes with solid players. Now you want to go back to sinking the roster with guys who make way too much money for what they bring to the table? Sure, Giles is not as good as Abreu straight up. But that isn't the proper comparison. First, Giles is a Free Agent, so we don't have to give anyone up to sign him. Second, Giles would come for at least $10 million less over two years than Abreu. So here's the comparison. Giles, Jon Garland, AJ Pierzynski, Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand + Marte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bobby Abreu It would take at LEAST Rowand and Marte to get Abreu in trade. For the $12 million you save between Giles and Abreu, I can take that money, add it to current salaries, and re-sign Jon Garland for two years, plus pay for AJ Pierzynski's and Joe Crede's salary increases. Last year, it wasn't Lee for Pods and Vizcaino. It was Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque, and Pierzynski. What you're saying is it's ok to add a big salary like Giles but not Abreu? [though Giles should get a 3 yr $30 mill deal. Abreu would be locked up for 2 yrs at $28 mill. so it's a wash cash wise. But signing a 34 yr old to a 3 yr deal like Giles more than goes against your point that adding Abreu would hurt the sox. Bobby for two yrs would probably be more productive than a guy in his mid 30's playing for 3 yrs] It's basically a matter of preference. CAses could be made for either. But the sox could add abreu or Giles and it wouldn't effect the sox ability to keep Crede, Jon ,or AJ.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 09:41 PM) He's just not worth $15 million/year. Hell, his OPS wasn't even .900 last year. For my money, I'd sign Brian Giles, who you could get for $8-9 million/year. He's not as young as Abreu, but he can play all 3 outfield positions and hits just about as well as Abreu. Plus, you don't have to give up any players to get him. In 6 of the last 8 yrs Abreu's OPS was over .900 [and was pretty close those other two]. So that's not really fair What he brings [high OBP, power, speed ,avg, a #3 hitter] the sox could use. And the pieces it would take to get him wouldn't effect the short or long term ability for the sox to win

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) How is this too much for a player of his caliber? Take a look at his numbers, his contact is not too expensive. Money could also come over from Philly with him if the right players were sent to the Phillies for him. The sox would probably have the players the phils would need---Rowand for CF, Mate for the pen, and a good prospect like Josh Fields for 3b in '07 to take over for David Bell. A deal like that and money would come over With the 3rd yr a team option the sox could cut him loose if things didn't work out.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) Beck -- one concern with Abreu is that he's a pretty bad outfielder, and that's only going to get worse now that he's what, 32 years old? 31? DH mostly

While most of the talk about a big bat has centered around Delgado via a trade, no one has mentioned Bobby Abreu [who has been mentioned as being shopped--though he has a no trade clause--maybe the Venezuelan would also agree to play for Ozzie]. Now, if a deal centered around Rowand and Marte [plus others] could net Abreu, any disagreements there? He could DH and play RF Delgado just doesn't do it for me. I could see him being very unhappy being traded away from FLA

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 01:13 AM) Rowand is our main trading chip this offseason, along with some of the bullpen arms like Marte. If we trade Rowand for a pitching prospect -- how the hell are we supposed to get a bat in here? Because, by the looks of it, Konerko is going to want more than 4 years/$52 million, and unless we land Brian Giles, there's no one else out there who can replace Konerko's offense. Rowand needs to be used as a chip for landing a big bat -- someone like Delgado -- not a pitching prospect. Unless it was one of those deals where you flip the prospect off to the other team, but by what you're saying, you'd want to keep that prospect. The offseason has just began. If PK leaves, then you're right. I'm going on the assupmtion PK will be back. But many big bats could be had by taking on salary. though

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 12:12 AM) And trading for extra pitchers is fine.. if you aren't trading a key player in your organization, which Rowand is imo. Anyway, I'm going to go watch 'Secret Window', so enjoy the debate If Rowand is traded, then he wasn't a key player. This debate is about whether Arow is a key part of this org. The early returns say he's not.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 11:34 PM) Why do the Sox need a starter ready to step in for 2006? Isn't that what Haigwood/Broadway are for? If things go as planned, they should be just about ready for '06, with Liotta and Gonzalez also knocking on the door. El Duque, if not traded, will be the our swingman. He'll be the fourth-seventh inning guy incase one of our starters has a rough (and short) outing. If he's relied upon to throw about 80-100 innings, I think that role is perfect for him. He should pitch a whole lot better when he's told to throw two-three innings at a time, rather than a five-seven. It was great seeing him in Boston actually blowing hitters away -- he hit 93! Did he ever hit 93 as a starter? He might have here and there, but I doubt it. You act like our staff is made up of five Kerry Woods'. You can pretty much (knock on wood) pencil in Garland and Buehrle for 200 IP. Freddy Garcia gets knicked up once in a while, but his 162 game average for IP is 222. Contreras hasn't missed any significant time (that I know of) in his career, and McCarthy doesn't strike me as the guy who's going to have arm troubles -- he's not throwing a blazing fastball, and he doesn't rely on a hard slider. He's a fastball/changeup/overhand-curveball pitcher -- not exactly a guy who should throw out his arm. Trading Rowand for a guy who might not even help the team this year (unless that prospect is then shipped off for a bat) is silly, IMO. The sox have missed the injury bug, eps. to their SP's. But it's always a chance, esp after a long postseason with extra innings. But saying that getting an ace pitching prospect is a waste?! Come on. Like stud pitchers won't find a spot somewhere, or can't be used at the deadline for trades. Stockpiling quality young arms isn't a luxury IMO. It's a necessity, esp for a team built on pitching and defense

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) He's going to be in the bullpen, good chance he doesn't get to 120 innings. The sox paying $5 mill for a long reliever next yr doesn't make much sense

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 10:05 PM) If he cannot throw 120 innings next year i hope they cut him. He is potentially a big waste of a roster space in more ways than one. Exactly

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:58 PM) And Duke is our 6th starter. You say you try and think like Ozzie and KW yet you rule out El Duque being the 6th starter for next year when that's more than likely what they're thinking about going with in '06. I don't think the sox will be [and shouldn't be] counting on El Duque to throw much in 06.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:57 PM) Ok now your just being silly... Ozzie built this team on pitching and DEFENSE.... DEFENSE... Remember defense it's important too... Their not going to trade their proven gold glove CF (he deserved it more then Hunter) and Ozzie sure as hell isn't going to want to replace one of his defensive stars with a maybe rookie where you don't know what your getting... Especially for another Felix Diaz like pitching prospect that can get shelled his first game out so you can post tball pictures of him... If KW is going to get an insurance starter it sure as hell won't be a rookie or a prospect... Thats one lesson he's learned from the last 3 years... If Anderson can play defense like Rowand, how is trading him taking away from the sox team defense?! I'm not a scout. But if the Sox think Anderson can play defense like Rowand, Aaron's expendable