beck72

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 01:29 PM) By the sounds of it, seems Minaya is looking more towards Buehrle. "He is looking for someone with a more established pedigree." I would think Buehrle would qualify as that. He is a proven winner. Any chance he'd be willing to part with Pelfrey and Milledge or maybe even Heilman instead of Milledge? The mets would likely only make such a deal if they had a window to sign Buerhle. No long term deal, no trade. But I think the sox would make such a deal. But the mets probably wouldn't and rightly so.

IMO, there's a reason the talk keeps coming back to the sox being interested in Baldelli--he fits in with the sox short and long term plans almost perfectly. He could eventually replace Pods as leadoff hitter [though Pods should start the yr in LF--though I wouldn't be surprised if Sweeney started in LF and Pods was traded before spring], and allow the sox to move both Fields and Sweeney into the lineup in the next two yrs. The sox shouldn't have BA, Ryan and Josh trying to adjust to the majors at the same time. Rocco's blend of SB speed, hitting for avg and power and CF defense for the next 5 yrs compliments the current lineup the sox have built. And we all know, when KW sets his sights on someone, he usually gets his man. The only question is how us fans will react when the sox "overpay" for Baldelli.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) I'd be pissed if we gave up Gio or Danks. How long is Baldelli under contract for? 5 more years QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) I'd be pissed if we gave up Gio or Danks. KW's got a huge mancrush on Danks. He's worked too hard to give him up now. Yet Gio is from FLA. With him probably ready to help in the bullpen in '07 [the DRays biggest hole], and ready for the rotation in 2008, the D Rays would have to be interested in him. If the Sox didn't have Danks, I'd say Gio wasn't going anywhere. But KW did move him once before.

QUOTE(Finkelstein @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) On the radio this morning Bruce Levine said that the Sox and D-Rays are talking again about Baldelli. Levine said that the D-Rays would want BA and 2 quality pitching prospects. If the Drays need/ want to move Baldelli, somehow I think KW will offer the best package for him. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) So if we send Anderson, Floyd or Danks, and another arm, does that change people's opinions of either the Garcia or McCarthy deals depending on which guy gets dealt? Danks isn't moving. Though I could see one of Floyd or Gio in a move for Baldelli

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 11:47 PM) We have the makings of one of the hardest to hit bullpens in the game. We will have electric power arms from the 6th on. Why f*** with this. You want to fix the LF situation. Play a platoon of Mack and Ozuna. If history holds, MacDougal may not be able to pitch much for the sox the next 3 yrs--no matter how good he is when he's healthy. And Mack and Ozuna won't cut it. The sox will have to get younger position players into the lineup sometime. The sox need a balance between rookies and guys who are older, with maxed out contracts.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:18 PM) You are entitled to your opinion, but I think blind faith in any GM is misplaced. Blind faith in KW and his scouts?! I guess you missed what happened in 2005. And in sticking with guys like Uribe, Contreras, Loaiza, Thornton, Garland, Crede, etc. I believe in KW's judgement. I liked BMac. But the sox wouldn't move Bmac if they weren't damn sure of what they got in return. Guys lose their jobs over trades like this. I have a question for you--do you have more faith in the 29 yr old Texas GM? Wasn't he the one who traded Chris Young the SP, Adrian Gonzalez for 1 yr of Adam Eaton?

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 05:57 PM) Since when has so much stock been placed in the performance by someone in Winter Ball? Didn't Arnie Munoz dominate Winter Ball a few years ago? If Winter Ball is so important, then we shouldn't have had all of our players return after a few weeks this year. The sox were linked to Masset before he went to winter ball. The key is KW's and his staff's proven ability to find not yet fully developed talent and get the most out of those players. They have done that very well.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 05:57 PM) From where does this great optimism in Masset come? Is it just his stuff? Because his statistical record doesn't look that good. It takes more than stuff to excel in the majors. I'll repost something I posted earlier in this thread about Masset: From the way KW was gushing about him, and had targetted him from early on. KW said he wouldn't have traded another SP after Freddy unless it helped the sox in 2007 AND the future. KW as GM won a world Series, based largely on scouting and picking up talent such as Masset. I'll give KW the benefit of the doubt that Masset and Danks [or the sox 5th SP--Haeger or FLoyd] will equal what BMac could have given the sox in 2007.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) There is a lot of room for debate over which pitcher will eventually be better. But I think all evidence, common sense and rationality tells you that in 2007, McCarthy >> Danks. That isn't the entire deal. McCarthy will probably contribute more than Danks in 2007. But it's Masset + Danks vs BMac. Masset is the key. He'll likely play a large role in the sox 2007 bullpen.

QUOTE(soxwon @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) We dont need to upgrade the offense- we have the best hitting team in baseball. The sox are PERFECT- thanks to KW. I'm pretty sure you forgot to put that in green QUOTE(knightni @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) Is MacDougal worth a hitter? Probably not by himself alone. But coupled with a bat like Anderson, and the makings of a nice addition would probably be there I think the Sox are higher Sweeney and Fields than Anderson. But getting all 3 bats into the lineup at the same time will be a problem.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 01:59 PM) Not that bad of a thought, because there are obviously still holes to fill, but I really, really like the way the bullpen is shaping up. Mac has some serious injury concerns, but when he is on, like you said, that trio at the back end is nasty. It's going to be nice to have that in the 7th inning of games. I guess if the right deal came along you make it, but I like Mac on the team right now. The key is the durability factor. Mac's stuff is very good. But if Ozzie has to handle Mac with kid gloves to keep him healthy, his value is far less than that of Aardsma, Masset and Floyd if they can be used at will. The sox should see what offers come their way. I'd certainly want the sox to trade a guy like MacDougal than Crede to fill the remaining holes. Teams will only trade quality major league players if they receive similar type players in return. Prospects aren't going to get deals done at this point. QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 01:41 PM) The double-headed monster of Thornton/MacDougal followed by Jenks is an awesome combination though. I would really like to have a full season of those guys in the bullpen together. I think that's the key. Will Mac stay healthy for an entire season, let alone the 3 he's signed for or the 4th option yr? The sox need reliability [esp. in terms of health] as well as electric/ nasty stuff from their bullpen guys. Esp. if the sox think Danks can win the 5th spot in the rotation, the sox would have Floyd in the 'pen as well. One of Aardsma/ Masset/ Floyd/ or even Charlie Haeger should be able to handle Mac's spot.

With the bullpen additions of Masset, Aardsma, and probably Floyd for 2007, would you use MacDougal as a trading chip to upgrade the offense? With his health concerns, I'm not completely sold on him. I love his stuff. But I'm not sure if the sox can count on him being healthy for 3 seasons. Also, IIRC, he'll turn 30 this year. Yet he would have to look good for a lot of teams looking for bullpen help, esp as a closer. And he has a reasonable contract, with an option for a 4th yr as well. Could the sox parlay MacDougal and peices [via a three team deal, such as Anderson, Mac, and another player for Scott Olsen who is then shipped to the DRays] into a guy like Rocco Baldelli? I would think so. SP and bullpen help are very hot commodities that most teams are looking to upgrade. It depends on how highly the sox think of Aardsma and Masset. And if they think either Haeger or Floyd could work from the bullpen. From the face of it, the sox seem very high on these new guys. Thoughts?

With the pitching set, KW will probably look to improve the lineup. Specifically the CF. Baldelli makes the most sense. Though it would likely require involve a team like the Marlins, and getting a SP from them with major league experience [like Nolasco].

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 25, 2006 -> 06:33 AM) I like KW's obsessions, he finds players that he thinks will be good and scouts them heavily to make sure and than he does what he needs to acquire them. Whats not to like =) I agree. And this way, when players he likes have a down year, KW can acquire them at a reduced cost.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Dec 25, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) There's no way in hell another starter can be traded now. Not unless Kenny was lying out his ass about trying to win it all in '07. Unless he's talking about a young arm--not one of the 4 vet SP's. KW said as much about those 4 not going anywhere after the Danks deal. QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) There may very well be another starting pitcher traded and I still think the Sox staff is looking strong and we will compete for #1 in 2007. If you're talking about Broadway or Gio, I agree, they could be moved in the right deal [such as for Baldelli]. But KW said the 4 vets aren't going anywhere.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 02:28 PM) Point taken, though Melvin is responsible for at least a very small fraction of that pitching development since the Bobby Witt era. My bad, it was Doug Melvin in charge of the Rangers from 1994-2001. Few of his pitchers turned out. But Hart was the one who drafted and developed these guys. And he drafted Hurley and Diamond as well. Doug Melvin 1994-2001 John Hart 2001-2005 Jon Daniels 2006-

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 08:19 AM) I think anybody with a brain thinks we coulda got more for BMac. I appreciate the logic but wouldn't yu all agree with me on that? That makes this a bad trade. I don't agree. BMac profiles as a #3 SP. Danks profiles as a #2, possibly a #1. Masset profiles as a top set up guy, throwing in the high 90's now that he isn't a SP [though he could still be a SP]. Though BMac will probably more in the majors in 2007 than Danks and Masset, over the course of all their careers the sox should get more out of their new guys. Just taking pitching into account, the sox could hardly get "more" for BMac. IMO, it's a good deal for 2007 and definitely for the long term future. QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) Once again, Gavin Floyd sucks and shouldn't be counted for future plans. Did Floyd beat your dog or something?! I'll give the sox scouts the benefit of the doubt. They've done well with other teams castoffs.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 02:15 PM) I was thinking about this today. Having the Rangers developed a good pitcher since Bobby Witt? There are new guys in charge of the Rangers now. To say the new people in the Rangers can't develop pitchers because of mistakes made by others is comparing apples to oranges. IIRC, Bob Melvin was in charge of the talent. Few of his pitchers turned out. The pitching prospects in the Rangers system [not just the ones the sox got] are far more highly regarded than the arms of the past.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 12:23 PM) Can some explain to me how playing into the WS allegedly tires a pitching staff out, but this guy Masset is pitching in Mexico during his "off season" and he could be a guy in the bullpen in 2007? Isn't he going to be totally gassed for next season? Masset had been a starter for most of his career. He's thrown over 100 innings a yr almost every yr since signing. The extra 20 innings of work shouldn't be a big deal

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) I'd just like to add this for everyone who has said that we should have traded Vazquez to Texas instead of BMac. The reason the trade happened, it seems to me, is that Texas liked BMac for the same reason we all liked him - he is a combination of major league talent (middle of the rotation) for relatively cheap money. No way Texas takes on a big contract and trades us 3 kids, two of whom seem destined for the majors. I liked BMac, looked forward to seeing him in the rotation every 5th day, but I'm ok with the trade, even excited to see Danks and Masset. But Buerhle's future with the Sox? I say two things about that: he'll be traded by July 31st, and just about everyone here will say we didn't get enough. I agree with just about everything you said. Except the part about trading Mark. The sox will likely be in the playoff hunt. Trading away Mark would hurt the sox chances of getting to the playoffs and winning it all once there. With the additions of AA and AAA pitchers almost ready for the bigs, the sox can afford to take draft pick as compensation for Mark. I wouldn't be surprised if the sox did re-sign Mark--depending on if he wants to re-sign here or not for a 3, 4 yr deal under $15 mill per. QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) Kenny thinks he could be another Bobby Jenks. Hard thrower, reached 96-98 on the gun in Mexico, and has a power arsenal including a real good sinker apparently. Danks himself said Masset had the best arm in the Rangers organization

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 06:36 AM) I'm excited about Danks future. I'm much less happy about the White Sox present. The White Sox present is more important than Danks future. I think that is the nature of the unhappiness around here. We have (had) a good shot at the WS in 2007. Now those chances aren't so good. Kw had said that he wouldn't trade a starter if it didn't help the sox in 2007 AND in the future. The 5th starter [Haeger/ Floyd/ Gio/ Broadway] + Masset+ Danks collectively will probably help the sox more than what BMac would have given the sox next yr. Plus, the sox chances on winning the 2007 world series wasn't going to rest on his shoulders. BMac was all about the sox having a younger, cheaper, talented rotation for yrs into the future, more than expecting him to be a #1 , #2 type SP in 2007. This trade hasn't changed that thinking

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 01:15 AM) I believe the organization likes Haegar more than McCarthy. Think about facing Haegar and then any of six guys that throw 95+ out of the pen. At the start of the winter OG stated that he wanted 6 guys that could close. Well he has them. IMO, it's not that the sox like one guy more than the other. First, they must like what Danks and Masset can give the sox more than BMac can. But I agree the sox must like Haeger more than they are letting on. The sox must feel pretty confident that Haeger or Floyd can give them what Bmac can next yr.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 01:17 AM) Anyone think the Sox will use the acquisition of Danks as leverage in a future drafting of his little brother? It certainly might have an impact. Other teams might shy away from him, thinking Jordan would hold out for a sox deal. You see how guys drop into the teens just because of money. No team wants to lose their 1st round pick.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) Then deal one of the other starting pitchers who hit Free Agency after 2007-2008 at a much higher cost. Don't deal the one who hits Free Agency in 2011. Those pitchers wouldn't give the sox the top arms like Danks and Masset. If KW and Co. thinks that one of Haeger/ Floyd/ Danks will give the sox similar numbers that BMac would in 2007, why not acquire someone like Danks who has a higher ceiling than BMac, who is more likely to outperform him over a career? Not to mention that Masset sounds like the type of bullpen arm that teams would kill for, ala Jonathan Broxton from the Dodgers.

I think this also shows how much the Sox like Haeger and believe in what he can give the sox in 2007.