caulfield12

I read somewhere that, if they were revising the list to take into account the first half of the season, that Chris Getz was even getting some consideration for #1 and definitely #2 prospect in the system. In some ways, that's a little depressing, because many don't project him to be much more than a good utility player in the majors, but it shows how far and consistently his stock has risen as a prospect since signing.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) from 1987-90 we were amazing McDowell followed by Thomas followed by Ventura followed by Alex Fernandez. we have many problems. Usually we have not had a top 10 pick. but we've wasted money on guys like Borchard and Fields, who lost good developmental time to football Need to stop that. We've been burned by injuries -- Honel and Stumm. And we don't do a good job of developing talent. Not to mention Corwin Malone, Rauch, Jim Parque, Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo, to name five more pitchers that were projected to be contributors. Didn't Tyler Lumsden have a lot of health issues not long after signing with the Sox, also? The whole football/athlete thing didn't work very well with Brian West, either. Was he at LSU or he gave up a scholarship for football to LSU to sign with the Sox? Can't remember.

We would never want Teahen at 3B defensively (I lived in KC for ten years and saw enough, no matter what the stats say)...and he's a little like Ross Gload, not hitting for enough power to play corner infield or outfield spots and not quite athletic enough to play the middle of the field. Peralta is a disaster defensively, I'd like to try to improve our defense if we are giving up offense (see Uribe). Inge would be a great utility player and back-up catcher and still has a very good arm, but I don't want to see him whiffing 200 times of playing 140+ games for us. I think the Angels will hold onto Wood and see if they can increase his value again. A lot depends on the Figgins situation. They held onto McPherson and Kotchmann for a long time, same with Kendry Morales. At different points, they could have had huge returns for these players, along with Wood and Aybar.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) If rules allowed it, Carter would #1-30. What's the story with Carter? What's his arsenal? Does he project as a starter or reliever? Obviously, I can look at his stats and peripherals and be impressed (as with many stats in Rookie League or DSL/Venezuela), but who has "eyeballed" him in person? Why was he drafted relatively low? Signability issues? I always look at players drafted outside of the first five rounds with a bit more skepticism, but there are tons of examples like Buehrle and Piazza who weren't high drafts or who weren't noticed by most teams (Pujols).

Even though Silverio is struggling right now, isn't he still only 17 years old, or maybe 18? When they were signed, which one was thought to have more potential (compared to J. Martinez)? I know Silverio has a good arm, by glancing at his stats, it doesn't look like he's stealing many bases. Of course, this is not a huge indication of basestealing and speed at the MLB level, many Sox prospects like Fields have had in the vicinity of 30 steals and Josh is a slightly above average 3B in terms of speed. Maybe now average to below average with his injury problems. How many of you have seen either Silverio or Martinez play? Are they similar to Ramirez in build? Do you still think both will make it to the White Sox, or it's just impossible to project until they at least have some success in Winston-Salem down the road?

would it look like, after the Danks and Beckham signings? 2) Do you still think we are the worst system in baseball, or can we argue we've gained on anyone in front of us? 3) Assuming we lose Cabrera and Crede and decline/buy out Griffey, but retain Thome, what are the projected compensation picks? Isn't Crede going to be lucky to be Type B/C after the last 2 seasons? What about Uribe? I haven't followed the minors at all this season, so I would guess our Top 10 would have some of the following players... Getz Poreda Fields (i don't think he qualifies as a rookie anymore, although technically a prospect as far as i'm concerned) C. Richard Jose Martinez Juan Silverio Danks Beckham Broadway Adam Russell John Shelby, Jr. Others under consideration Brandon Allen Egbert Ely McCulloch Daniel Hudson Po-Yu Lin Dexter Carter

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 06:30 PM) Yet Williams is still a complete moron to some..... That's not unusual...looks at startribune.com/sports or the Twins' boards after losses. MANY of their fans feel the same way about Gardenhire and Bill Smith, despite their unprecedented level of success getting lemonade out of lemons. It kind of reminds me of Braves' and Yankees' fans, they're getting spoiled...combined with their lack of belief they can actually get somewhere in the playoffs and that ownership is cheap, cheap, cheap. Well, the new stadium will bring up two interesting questions. Will the Twins' homefield advantage evaporate, and second, will the Pohlad family suck the profits out of the luxury suites and new revenue streams and not plug in an extra $20-30 million into the payroll?

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:51 AM) Edgar Renteria anyone? http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../808130396/1004 They really hate Renteria in DET, almost as much as they have turned on Leyland, Sheffield and Doug Jones. It would be ironic if we replaced one Colombian for another, being that they are the only two players from their country, and they basically had a falling out and hate each other now (wonder if that was also over a call to the box reversing an error on Cabrera and taking away a single from Edgar???) I just read the article. The author reached the obvious conclusion that Ordonez (at 34) is their most marketable/tradeable player at this point...and, also, that if he stays healthy, they will have his $15 million dollar options vest in 2010 and 2011 when his contract takes a turn for the Alphonso Soriano universe (due to Magglio's age and weight/body type/injury issues). They do have to wait until Porcello and Ryan and some of their other pitchers mature. Luckily, Andrew Miller and J. Jurrgens were traded out of the division, so we can still deal with Robertson, Verlander and Bonderman. Maybe the White Sox will take a shot at Kenny Rogers? We passed him (a lot of teams did) in 2003 and then again when he came to DET, and he made remarkable comebacks, although this will undoubtedly be his last. For the Tigers to become competitive again, they really need for Dontrelle Willis to get his head screwed on straight...otherwise, they will have to dump Miguel Cabrera or Ordonez and completely rebuild.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:33 AM) I dont know where you come off saying that, everyone is entitled to their opinion.... It's is not like there havent been a number of times people here have questioned a move that turned out to be a disaster. Sometimes we are wrong but just because your not a GM of a team doesnt mean your wrong about something. This reminds me of 2006 all over again. Everything KW did was "magical" and the past (Ritchie trade, trading for the wrong "Barry/Berry" with the Dodgers, dumping Durham for Adkins and getting no draft picks back, "Moneyball," etc.) was forgotten. I think KW is an average to above average GM, somewhere between 12-18 in the majors. I try to be pretty objective about the guy...last year, I didn't think he was the worst GM in baseball by a long stretch. I don't think "KW won a World Series, have/did you?" makes every move he has made perfect and unquestionable. I just really hate that kind of logic or argument. Eventually, even the Bulls had to part with Krause, as most realized that it was MJ and Pippen and not the "wizard" GM who was responsible for the team's success. He's a good GM, but not a great one. He's made some super acquisitions, but he's done almost nothing in Latin America or the Pacific Rim, and the White Sox drafting history/success rate has been horrible, especially first rounders. OTOH, the White Sox, I think, are behind only the Yankees and Braves (maybe the Red Sox now too) if you go back and look at organizational winning percentage since around 1990 or 91. Of course, this leads to the other main point for Sox fans....until 2005, lack of success in the playoffs, and letting the Twins, with a much lower budget, get the better of him year after year after year.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:28 AM) A nickname he got for his way with the ladies. Wasn't there a heavy metal band in the 80's or early 90's with that name, "Slayer"? Maybe it was "Grim Reaper," lol. I get confused sometimes. I prefer "Twins slayer" as his nickname, or hoped-for results at least.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) Sounds like somebody pissed in your Cheerios this morning... Apparently Byrd cleared waivers before Jose tore his Achilles. In other words, there was no room in the rotation for him at that point. Also consider that the Indians got jack squat in return from the Red Sox. So, even if Kenny did claim him, why would they want to deal a solid pitcher to a division rival for that price? They would save a whole month and a half's worth of salary (whoppie!) and lose the draft picks. The draft picks might be worth more than what they got from Epstein. The Sox need to stop rolling the dice and they need to develop players. Kenny's the best wheeler-dealer GM I've ever seen, but he's not going to be able to continue trading for ML-ready players if he stays on this course. The Sox have very little left in AA and AAA, which is why a washed-up Griffey was Kenny's big deadline move this year. Wow, you have some serious anger issues. Why would I "hate" anybody on the Sox? Especially somebody like Thome, who is pretty much universally-liked around the league. I don't have a massive hard-on for him like you do, but I still like the guy. I also think that we have too many players like him right now and would like to move his salary in the off-season and spend it on something that we actually need, but that's probably not going to happen. That said, I'm not exactly sitting in front of my TV and shaking my fist at him when he comes to the plate. The Sox pen has gone to crap because Dotel, Thornton, and Logan aren't that good. It's pretty simple. Dotel hasn't put up a full quality season since the Tommy John surgery. Thornton was a cast-off from the Mariners and he sucked last year as well. I don't think that Logan has had a single solid year in the majors. Look at their career stats, for crying out loud! Is it really any wonder that these guys are getting hit?! :wacko: Wow, all of this for saying that Kenny needs to focus more on player development. One would think that I cursed your mother or something. That's the essence of set-up guys these days. If you look at the MLB "holds" leaders, you barely recognize half the names on the list, and that's if you are a die-hard Roto player looking for potential closer fill-ins. Linebrink was as close as you can get to a known quantity for the past five years, but injury/durability/overuse concerns clouded that picture for many GM's. With Thornton, you can argue at least he had first round talent. Of course, you can same the same thing about the likes of MacDougal, Sisco and Aardsma, among others. At least I give KW credit for trying a new approach...instead of throwing a bunch of talent against the wall and hoping that some of it would stick or "figure things out," he went to more veteran/proven relievers in Dotel and Linebrink, and it worked for 67% of the season. Of course, then you turn to the development angle again. Maybe Richard, throwing just an inning or two, can replace Logan (the Logan of the first half of the season). Just the fact that Logan made the same jump as Scott Radinsky in 1990 without having anything close to Scott's pre-injury/health problems stuff says a lot about the state of the Sox farm system. Even if your minor league starters fail, there should be enough quality arms to come up with a couple of serviceable pitchers. Right now, the best we can say is that Adam Russell is learning on the job and might be the next Jon Adkins at worst and Bob Howry at best. The fact that Carrasco is such an integral part of the pen (over the likes of Logan, Wasserman, Russell, Link, Rodriguez, etc.) should tell you all you need to know. Of course, you can look at the Twins...who are at best, a little worse off than the Sox with Crain/Guerrier/Reyes as set-up men for Nathan. Losing Neshek, Rincon imploding (due to the steroids case?) and Grant Balfour (now pitching well again for the Rays) all going south really was a blow to that organization, but those were three critical pitchers. When the Twins had Romero/Hawkins/Guardado and then Nathan later...or when the Sox had Politte/Cotts/Hermanson/Jenks or Dotel/Linebrink/Jenks, things worked like clockwork. It's also telling that Politte and Cotts pretty much came out of nowhere and faded...the same thing could be said of Hermanson, only Jenks has had extended success, and nobody ever questioned his talent. Bottom line...you just never know what the heck will happen from year to year. Look at the Indians and Tigers this year, or the Royals for the first half of 2003.

Impressive. That's the first thing I thought of while talking with Gordon Beckham late Wednesday afternoon. Beckham, the White Sox' first-round draft pick, was officially signed Wednesday, and he'll join Class A Kannapolis Thursday. Considering he was the No. 8 overall selection in the June draft, Beckham could have commanded a signing bonus between $4-5 million. He "settled'' for $2.6 million, which tells me a lot about the 21-year-old shortstop. The other thing that stuck out with Beckman was this statement: “I think everybody is different, everybody plays the game a different way. I play it my way. I would like to lead the White Sox one day the way Derek Jeter leads the Yankees. That would be the kind of leadership role I would like to take.” Had just about any other kid tried attaching himself with the great Jeter, laughter would have ensued. With Beckham, though, you actually can picture his face being out front with the White Sox for 10-15 years. Of course, he’s still got a long ladder to climb. But the bonus baby is off to a flying start. from dailyherald.com First, how can a veteran sportswriter think that someone "slotted" in the first round would be offered that kind of money? That's why there is collusion or salary fixing now in MLB, NFL and NBA, more or less. I hope all the Jeter/Yankees bashers won't be too hard on the kid for making that ambitious comparison.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:39 AM) They are both on the 40 man roster and would have to clear waivers for that to happen. In other words, forget about it. Poreda > Haeger, Broadway, McCullough, Richard and Delray Brooks in one package

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:10 AM) Just seen this on WSI. Hopefully its true. "My guy in PR that told me about Beckham signing on Tuesday, just told me that Danks has agreed to" to a contract? or too?

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 02:24 AM) My guess is that Broadway starts tomorrow, then after the game is optioned back to Charlotte and Richard pitches in that spot next time through the order. With Clayton going up, Charlotte is short a starting pitcher. So I doubt any relievers or Wise will go to Charlotte. Unless somebody is going on the DL. It could be they're just taking it game-by-game depending on our place in the standings and which team matches up better with L/R and their respective pitching styles. I think OG and KW decided with Linebrink's uncertain status, it was better to conserve Carrasco for the bullpen to use 2-4 times per week, rather than just one start every 5-6 days (also taking into consideration there are at least 3 skipped starts for the 5 hole down the stretch).

QUOTE (Drew @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 12:53 AM) Two words: Cory Snyder. Put up stud numbers in Cleveland, lasted 50 games with us and not even getting to the Mendoza line. It could be argued that he was a flash in the pan after his first three seasons. I remember watching him slide to catch a ball in LF, which he missed, and then got up to look at his hand before locating the ball and getting it back into the infield. Cory Snyder Steve Sax Steve Carlton Bo Jackson George Bell Dale Sveum (well, that's pushing it) Dave Stieb Jon Kruk Chris Sabo Jim Abbott Dave Righetti Rob Dibble Joe Magrane

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 04:24 PM) So who blinked? Just curious to see how 2.6 million compares to what expectations were... maybe the draft guys could shed some light? The slot was projected at one point around 2.23 million, so about $370,000 over what the Sox were hoping/expecting to pay. Hey, after all the bonus money wasted on Honel, Broadway, McCullough, Borchard, Ring, etc., what does it matter? Heck, Dave Wilder probably took more than that. I know we're paying MacDougal significantly more just to sit in the bullpen at Charlotte. Not to mention we signed the irreplaceble Po-Yu Lin for $300,000. I hope KW gets Danks signed so we can get some quality outfield depth that can play at the upper levels (AA) relatively quickly.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) He screwed up by leaving the clubhouse during a game. Was that the Tigers' game he started in freezing conditions at home...then he got roughed up and left before the game was finished? I can't remember clearly, but it seems like there was an "impasse" with the front office, he went on the radio and made some comments, and basically KW and Ozzie eventually decided to exile him from the organization. Maybe the actual trade happened later in the season.

Ramirez is obviously the SS of the future. He's out of position at 2B, and has still shown flashes of GG caliber defense that nobody in the majors can claim...and his bat's even more of a plus at SS. Beckham will go to either 3B or 2B, depending on what happens with Crede/Fields. Then you have to keep Uribe in the mix as well, especially if he continues to play better defense than Crede showed the first half of season. He's saved more runs (and big runs) in the last 3 weeks than we've given up offensively by having him in the line-up. Actually, he's had some good moments with the stick, too...I remember in 2004 he basically carried the Sox for the first two months of the season (or was that 2003?) One of those seasons. (Note, the only thing that will affect Beckham's final position is what KW does with Fields...as Crede, if he did come back next year, it would be on a one year deal with incentives. And that's completely dependent on what he does the rest of the seaason, if anything). Getz could become the heir-apparent at SS, with Beckham then going to 3B. If gets becomes an "Aaron Miles" type player, he will probably just become the utility infielder (Ozuna role). On a playoff-caliber team, I think Ramirez and Beckham are up the middle and Getz is on the bench as the swing man (Uribe/Ozuna). We'll see. I never thought Aaron Rowand should be an everyday player...so prove me wrong Getz. I don't think he could come close to being the debacle that was the Andy Gonzalez Era of Sox baseball. Thankfully, that didn't last very long at all (but it seemed to be forever!)

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 06:45 PM) the francisco and rupe trade was for the first everett trade in which we didnt make playoffs. I think it was Rauch and Majewski the 2nd time Yeah, that trade was in July of 2004. I guess you can argue that it was worth it...although it would be nice to have Rauch back now. Seems he had a lot of problems with KW and Ozzie in particular, I think he was late one time and there was the intimation of an attitude problem and I think Rauch also felt they didn't give him enough starts to prove himself?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 08:27 AM) True, but Contreras was injured when Byrd cleared waivers, and to my best recollection remained injured when he was dealt to Boston. Ozzie was quoted in the suntimes that they believe/d that their internal options were better...although how you argue Carrasco/Broadway over the veteran Byrd is beyond me. Maybe that's KW's official "company line." Second, with three off days in the coming weeks, we can skip the 5th spot at least three times out of the final 8-9 starts. I guess it will be interesting to compare what happens (beginning tomorrow) with Bryd's Boston starts and compare the results in terms of quality starts and innings eaten. I mean, when KW had a chance to make an official claim, he passed...at that point, the bidding was open to the best deal that was available. Because BOS has both more financial resources and minor league talent, and they're not in the same division, and Epstein was concerned with Buchholz and Wakefield was just DLed, he was probably the most aggressive and earliest bidder. They they announced exactly what the trade was yet or is it PTBNL?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 05:31 PM) I greatly appreciate everything that Jon did for this team. That said, I agree that he's not that great. For some reason, he never developed a good offspeed pitch. And because he can't keep hitters off-balance by changing speed, he's ultra-reliant on command. If he's not locating that sinker or two-seamer and gets behind in the count, hitters will sit on his fastball and pound the crap out of it. +1,000,000 Which is my real "sore point" about 2003, not the Ritchie trade which killed our depth (along with injuries and non-performance), but the single biggest swing in players was us bypassing Kenny Rogers as the 5th starter...a relatively cheap signing which paid off huge for the Twins and left us one pitcher short. I can't remember what his contract was that year, but it wasn't that large, as he had yet to truly resurrect his career at that point.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 12:58 PM) Ozzie The only reason for that is because he has serious misgivings and doesn't trust anyone (Fields, Wasserman, Logan, Richard, Haeger, Broadway, etc.) to actually come up and get the job. Say what you want about DJ Carrasco and his 83-88 MPH fastball, at least he's gotten some big outs since he joined the club. Look at the SunTimes today...Ozzie is expressing serious misgivings about taking Carrasco out of the pen, because that means there will be 2-3 games where he can't be used in the bullpen as the fourth guy after Jenks/Dotel/Thornton. We're missing that critical 6th-7th inning pitcher who can be relied upon. Obviously, it's not Adam Russell yet. As of now, there's no official decision on Thursday's starter. Since we're going out to OAK, if we can take a 1 1/2 game lead into Thursday's start, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Broadway gets the start at all. If it's 0.5 ahead or behind, I think he will go with Carrasco instead. Just a hunch. Remember, there are three times (at least) in the last 8-9 times through the rotation we can skip the 5th spot. I also think this was another factor in not acquiring Byrd...Ozzie said himself they didn't believe he was any better than their in-house options, although Byrd was admittedly having mechnical problems and has really pitched well the last 4-6 weeks for CLE. Also, perhaps there was the idea that the AL Central opponents were already more familiar with him...that the advantage of a new "look" from a rookie might be better than a veteran every team has seen 2-4 times in the last couple of seasons. Then again, that rookie theory didn't work so well with Boston's starter yesterday or Richard either (or any White Sox pitching prospect in seemingly 5+ years).

Matt Ginter was pulled off the 2000 Olympic roster late in the season as the White Sox were struggling with injuries to their starting rotation...but his impact was pretty marginal, about the same as Richard's I would guess. Actually, Richard did have more of a negative impact than someone pitching out of the bullpen in mop-up IMO.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) I don't care what anyone says, IMO, Javy is our 2nd best pitcher. Before I'd say he is our best, but that title goes to Danks now. Ummmm...no. Not until he has a stretch where he beats 2-3 above .500 teams consecutively (something like Floyd and Buehrle are much more capable of doing, although Gavin's been fading, despite the win total...heck, Adam Russell is 4-0) He's the pitching version of Thome (to many Sox fans)...great stats and looks good on paper...but sometimes he comes up short when we really need the big hit or clutch start against the best teams in baseball.