caulfield12

FRIDAY Scott "Sutcliffe/Sabathia" Lewis versus Jon Danks SATURDAY Zach Jackson (crafty LH) against Javier Vazquez (3 day's rest) SUNDAY Cliff Lee versus Mark Buerhle (3 day's rest) Obviously, if it gets to Sunday, that's a scary proposition. Let's hope it is Broadway or Richard starting that game...or Carrasco. That would also allow us to start Buehrle in the first game at TB or Boston. By the way, I think TB is a little vulnerable in the bullpen right now, Wheeler and Percival have been so-so recently. MONDAY ???? DET versus Gavin Floyd (3 day's rest) Not sure about Fausto Carmona's status, and if he will be suspended and miss his scheduled start Wednesday against Boston. If he starts WED, we would miss him. I guess that's good, he has a 5.19 ERA this season, but he's capable of being dominant. Then again, pitchers like Lewis and Jackson scare me too!!! Every opposing pitcher is scary right now for Sox fans, except Blackburn, which means he'll probably shut us out!

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 10:31 PM) If we take the first one, then we take one more, for two total. If the first one is a loss, we don't win any. I don't really EXPECT Javier to beat Baker. When's the last time Vazquez went out and won a huge game for us that was critical? I do expect Buerhle to beat Blackburn, who's been pitching terribly, in the second game. If we lose the first two, then I think it is likely that Floyd succumbs to the pressure and a very tough Slowey (especially in the Dome) knocks us into a tie (1/2 game back).

Well, the worst case scenario, I don't want to think about a sweep, can't imagine it, yet wouldn't be 100% totally surprised. If we can win just one game, then even if Minnesota sweeps the Royals, we only have to win one out of three against CLE to at least get to a Monday game against the Tigers. The key is to win at least one...I think a sweep and we're probably history, although the way this season has gone, neither team has been able to sustain any sort of long-term momentum for more than a series or two, with one or two exceptions for both teams earlier in the season. If they sweep us WITHOUT Liriano going to the bump, then they deserve the division. They also have to pitch Perkins (9.75 ERA his last four starts, skipped and pitching on more than a week's rest like Danks) Saturday night and then face Meche on Sunday. Not to mention the fact that Trey Hillman could be a real bastard to the Twins and skip Duckworth and force the Twins to beat Meche and Greinke back to back on normal rest. Right now, Meche is slated to pitch the finale.

Wow...bringing in Jenks in the 8th.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) Nice play by Alexei. DJ is saying that this is Danks' last inning. Why in the hell would that be the case? Why would we want to hand the ball off to our horrendous bullpen when our starter is cruising and has a low pitch count? He definitely should be given the 8th, and then hand the ball to Jenks for the 9th. He's at 90 pitches now...I think you have to let him face Maier, if he gets him, you let him pitch to DeJesus. But I have a feeling we might see Thornton.

83

This is the best chance for TB to score. I think they're using rookie Jose Mijares (their fourth lefty) instead of Reyes/Breslow/Guardado.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:47 PM) Good, I didn't see that. Wonder if he was at home in Missouri and decided to make the journey to the park. I wonder if Crede and Danks are going hunting tomorrow on the off-day at Buehrle's farm? Maybe that would help Mark to relax before the big series next week.

Danks at 72 pitches. I think he can get the game to Jenks in the 9th...although they might use Thornton against DeJesus.

QUOTE (Felix @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:38 PM) If you're going to say things, at least look them up before you do so. It might prevent some embarrassment. Blackburn in September: 7.58 ERA, 26 H, 17 R in 19 IP GENIUS Thanks PK. Insurance is always good, especially today while the Twins are already winning. UMMMM....do you even read, dude? I said why would anyone assume that Blackburn, the way he has been pitching, would beat Buerhle? Your what hurts? Has everyone around here been hypnotized by Sarah Palin-itis and lost IQ?

Especially that Blackburn, the way he has been pitching, is going to beat Buehrle. I can see us losing the 1st and 3rd games more easily.

QUOTE (sox1844 @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:32 PM) Whew. Got out of that one. If you're so unhappy his defense at second, can you imagine Lex at short next year? You have to remember this is the first time Ramirez has played a 162 game season. He was playing essentially mid to high A ball last season in Cuba. He'll be fine. Nobody could be worse than Royce Clayton, by the way.

QUOTE (G&T @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) I wonder if I could steal on this pitching staff. Didn't you see the video from Spring Training with Joe Cowley betting AJ that he could steal off him...it was pretty funny.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:25 PM) We can't expect any more favors from other teams regarding Minnie. Don't teams normally play the scrubs the day after wildly celebrating their title? Their line-up isn't that bad. Zobrist and Hernandez are in, Navarro and Akamura are sitting. Longoria hasn't played the best defense, and they simply can't get the big breakthrough hit against Liriano, who keeps flirting with danger. The best hope is the bullpen messing it up for the Twins now.

Send Wise...why not? Jermaine hasn't been hitting recently.

If we do make the playoffs, I would have no idea how to order our first four guys. Realistically, Danks has been our best pitcher this season...but you have the feeling Coop would go with Buehrle and Vazquez, then Floyd. At least that's who they wanted to face the Twins next week.

Juanie needs to get on one of his patented one week hot streaks again.

But didn't we lose 2 of 3 against the Royals near the end of the season that final month? There was one really sloppy and frustrating game (maybe it was raining) when Buehrle was pitching...not to mention that game where we had a HUGE lead against KC and somehow blew it. That was a nightmare, waking up the next morning and seeing the final score and staring in disbelief.

Did we honestly look any better against DET and KC at this point 3 years ago? I remember watching the likes of Blum and Borchard hopelessly flail away...more frustrating than this.

"Dude, you're just not getting it. Man, and I thought I was a fan who lacked knowledge and insight. Wow. Yeah, and once the team was done overachieving, Ozzie's mismanaging become quite apparent, didn't it? NOTHING you are saying is actual logic to the argument. All you are doing is rambling, changing the subject, comparing other managers, and throwing around irrelevant statistics. You presenting just about everything you can that's NOT relevant. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but you're like a desperate woman in an argument. You'll go on forever and ever and say nothing relevant, but never give up spouting the same meaningless babble because that's your nature. You're another statistic guy who thinks the statistics he's presenting have any relevance to Ozzie's inability as an in-game manager. Not much point in arguing with you further. I'm beating a dead horse here. It's clear no "Ozzie defender" on this board can read or provide any solid argument. I don't see how you people can't see the truth. Ozzie makes f***ups so much it's ridiculous. He has no idea what he is doing with his technical managerial duties. This is a fact. Are you going to deny it? If so, fine, be in denial. If not, then just stop trying to defend him and give it a rest." You can just wait for the White Sox to "choke" this week and then spend the rest of the off-season telling everyone that it's the manager, not the players, that need to be replaced. It's a fun hobby for some who have never even managed a Little League team or worked in professional baseball but think they know everything about the game. I missed the memo from the White Sox where they hired you to do a comprehensive evaluation of the manager because you have insight or knowledge that no other Sox fans apparently possess about Ozzie Guillen. Therefore, I am forwarding this thread directly to the organization so Reinsdorf and KW can clearly see what a mistake they are making by continuing to grant a contract to Mr. Guillen, and that if only you were the manager, they would undoubtedly have won every AL Central title contested in the last decade with ease.

"And as far as his motivational abilities, that's fine and dandy, and that's one thing I LIKE about Ozzie, but what good has it done? How good have the Sox looked since 2005 ended? Ask yourself that question. The actual BASEBALL MANAGING ABILITIES need to be there. They are absent from Ozzie. It's a simple FACT, so why all the defense? I'm not looking to crucify the man, I just don't get why there are still people out there who deny his incompetence." 2004=83-79 (Pythagorean, 84-78) 2005=99-63 (expected 91-71) actually, 110-64 2006=90-72 (expected 88-74) 2007=72-90 (expected 67-95) Every year but one, he's done better or much better than would be predicted statistically (even then, it was only a one game difference in 2004). I think we all understand that the 2005 team overachieved (and you have to give the manager some credit there). but even in 2006 and 2007, the team's overall record was better than it should have been. What more can you ask of the manager? The guy's 66 games over .500 in his career managing the Sox. That's nothing to be ashamed about. You can do the same analysis (it's not perfect, but it's certainly one barometer) for any manager (the ones I listed earlier) and Ozzie ranks right up there with the better ones in the game. Phil Rogers wrote just such a column a year or two ago, I think. In 2006, the starters died in the second half, along with Jenks and the offense. In 2007, when you're playing Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens and Josh Fields for significant numbers of games, you can see why the analysis would have projected 67 and not 72 losses. We had the worst bullpen in the American League, qualitatively if not quantitatively.

For all those saying they prefer Vazquez over Chris Young... How many of you would even think of betting the White Sox (and Javy) to win Game 1 up in Minnesota? Any takers? Just for argument's sake, I would like to see those who have enough confidence in Javier that they would go out and bet $1,000 on the Sox Tuesday night? I think some good can come out of this season, no matter what happens. If we fall short, KW will be forced to think over and over again about the Twins and how he can put together a team to beat them more than once every decade. If the Twins are in the head of our star pitcher who has won playoff and World Series games and our manager and announcers and most Sox fans, KW will be forced to confront his failures again (although his successes this season are many) by the media, Sox fest and season ticket holders. If the Twins were to beat us yet again, it would expose the fundamental flaw in KW's logic of a power-only based team tailored specifically for Comiskey...because Minnesota also has to play on the road, both teams have equal home field and away discrepancies. Neither has an advantage or disadvantage inherently. It seems Buddy Bell really needs to think long and hard about why so many players are lacking in the basic fundamentals (players that aren't "power" hitters or 3-4-5 in the order) when they reach the big league level. Someone like Andy Gonzalez is the perfect example...the type of player that, if nothing else, should be able to do the "little things" to help the team, as he's neither a power nor a speed-asset player, and below-average defensively. How did a player like that reach the big leagues and get so much playing time?

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:32 PM) More rambling that ignores the point, changes the subject and does nothing to counter my argument. And again, you're just comparing him to other managers. Apparently, Ozzie defenders can't read English correctly. I never mentioned a specific manager could win more. That's another flaw to your argument. You're trying to counter an argument that isn't there. You're not arguing with me, only the idea of what you want to THINK I'm saying. Wake up. And Like I've said, watch the games. See the horrible calls to do or not do something, timing, his decisions of pulling people too late or too soon, mismanaging his bullpen (not just this year so don't start with that "we have nobody good in the pen"), and everything else. He does it so often it's blatantly obvious he is a CLUELESS in-game manager. "Oh, but he has the passion! And he gets them fired up! And he gets them motivated! And he knows how to treat his players (which is not true at all)! But he gets the best talent out of his players (more bulls***)!" Really? Then why do the Sox still look like a terrible team for 2 1/2 years in a row? And BTW obviously he does NOT get the most talent out of his players. That's obvious this year. Another contradiction (actually it's a flat out LIE) of the prototypical Ozzie defender. Being a good "motivational" manager (a huge cop out to Ozzie's inability is all that is) and being a good in-game manager is two different things. I'm not saying Ozzie is a bad motivational manager (even though he does f*** that up sometimes, too), I'm saying Ozzie is a bad in-game manager, which is OBVIOUS, and it costs your team a lot of games, which it has. So far you're just another Ozzie defender in denial that fails to make a logical argument to back up your (and his) case, simply changing the subject and twisting other people's words around into your own "logic." You can say the same thing for those fans who always think getting rid of the manager/coach or putting in the back-up quarterback will solve everything...I always hear complaints about Guillen, but not as much before-the-fact second-guessing as afterwards. It's easy to look back on any game in hindsight. The problem is there's no way to say YOUR choice or idea would have worked better. It's why the ratio of praise versus criticism (especially after games) is always 1 to 10... Guillen was very patient with Ramirez, quickly identified him (from spring training on) as the "baseball" player and not just a raw athlete he was, and kept him around on the big league roster, waiting for the warm weather, which he correctly predicted would help...as well as regular at-bats. If you look at every scouting report on Ramirez, and what the other teams that went to his tryout that passed on offering a contract said...you have to give some credit to both KW and OG. Same with Ozzie's almost overabundant praise of Iguchi as the MVP. When Guillen has players on is team that can play the game the right way, he's always effusive with his praise. He gives players many chances to fail (see Boone Logan) and always has been very patient and supportive of the starters (Garland, Contreras, Vazquez...now Danks and Floyd, too)...I remember that this was something that Manuel was always attacked for, not letting Garland pitch out of trouble. Two seasons ago, it was that Javier could never get past the 5th/6th inning, yet Ozzie stuck with him and they got through that season and seemingly turned things around, without giving up on Javier and trading him yet again. Would Contreras have succeeded equally well with another manager and pitching coach? Thornton? Jenks? You can look at "in-game" tactics all you want, but if those players don't have the right clubhouse environment around them, they don't believe and trust in their manager and teammates...then they usually don't make the playoffs. Another example, in 2005, everyone was crucifying Guillen for his Sunday line-ups and playing the bench players so often. Well, apparently that "rest" kicked in the final week or so of the season, and players like Blum and Willie Harris went out to make key contributions because they got enough opportunities to play down the stretch. Any tactical/strategic manager is still only as good as hunches and past statistical analyses and trends. You can have all the books and computer printouts in the world, but you can't teach intuition and having a feel for the game. Some managers have it, others don't. You have to find the right button to push with each player. While motivation is sometimes overestimated in baseball (it's not football), you can't sell that part of Guillen's contributions short. Seemingly every time the team has needed a mental boost of lift, Ozzie getting on them at just the right time (but not too much, where it loses all meaning and players roll their eyes) has worked well this season...when the team has struggled, Ozzie has focused the attention on himself, Mariotti, the Cubs, etc., and the team has usually relaxed and played better baseball after that.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) We dont have enough to get Ichiro. He isnt coming here. But that wasn't the point of my comments, you stated about Swishers OPS is only .10 worse. Beckham looks like a line drive swing with some power. Hopefully we A.) keep him B.) dont let our minor league instruction mess him up. C.) he stays healthy. Which goes back to the whole Chris Young trade again. He's young, dynamic and affordable. He does everything well besides throw. 46 doubles. Everyone will just throw out his OPS and OBP and say he's horrible, but I don't buy that argument. Obviously, he's a much different player than Ichiro, but I am not convinced we're so much better off with Javier Vazquez. At worse, he's Mike Cameron. And that's a lot better than our CF situation has been for the last three years. It's like just looking at Tadahito Iguchi's stats in 2005 on paper. They don't come close to telling the entire story. With Ichiro, how many errors did he force on the infield with his speed? How many pitchers gave up RBI's because they were concentrating on Ichiro at 1B or 2B? How many runners didn't advance because of his presence and arm in CF and RF? How many times did he move a runner over successfully? Don't get me started about our inability to bunt. Listening to both games today, it struck me the way that most teams' announcers say "and they're off to the races" as soon as a somewhat speedy guy gets on against anyone besides Buehrle. Mauer, you simply don't run on that guy. I kind of miss the days of Karkovice or even Miguel Olivo...when Harrelson was hyping him to be something he wasn't. But it was fun while it lasted.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 09:32 PM) Did I EVER say anything about Ron or the Twins? No, I'm just saying OZZIE is a horrible manager and that if we had a better one we'd have a LOT more wins under our belt. It seems like the #1 (maybe ONLY) "Ozzie Defense" is comparison to other managers. How bad Ozzie is has nothing to do with other managers, period. And I don't mean to be rash, but the fact you credit Guillen for us being a few games up in a terrible division when Minnesotta has lost what... 8 of ten or something and we've hardly gained anything... you HAVE to be f***ing joking. That makes me laugh REALLY hard. And those managers would be who exactly? LaRussa? Maddon? Scioscia? Torre? Jerry Manuel? Francona? Piniella? Dusty Baker? Cito Gaston (only bring his name up because he almost got the job instead of Guillen)? I don't buy it. None of those guys would have the same pride about managing this team that Guillen does. The White Sox had/have a much more difficult schedule in the last six weeks than the Twins. I think something like 3-4 more series with teams over .500. It's like the whole Phil Jackson thing...how can he manage without great players? Is Leyland horrible after being great before? Well, what happened this year or in Colorado? What happened to Torre at the end in NY or in Atlanta? What about Piniella in TB? Isn't Maddon winning with many of the same players that Lou couldn't get to believe in themselves? Everyone says Manuel was the worst manager in their lifetime, with the exception of Bevington, right? Yet he's done okay in NY so far. You can't simply say XYZ manager would have the White Sox 5-10 games ahead of the Twins. Is Eric Wedge horrible or great? That team has pinballed all over the place over the last 3-4 seasons. Who's to say they wouldn't have won the WS with Guillen there?