ILMOU

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:31 AM) Flowers has struck out 36% of the time against lefties this year, 35% overall. De Aza 31% vs lefties, 22% overall. And if you're talking about hindsight versus the specific final pitch of De Aza's at bat, you must now admit that we are way, way beyond talking about managerial strategy. 450 points of OPS. Four hundred and fifty. Tyler was a better option. Anyone can cherry pick here. I'll take my cherries over yours.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) Not irrelevant. If you are saying this experience is required (which BTW, Robin has over 400 games under his belt)yet you don't have it, wouldn't that mean, using your own critieria, you have no idea what you are talking about? If you need this experience to manage, I would imagine this same experience should be needed to be qualified to know what is the right move and what is the wrong move. Well, I wasn't the one making the no experience=bad hire argument. My take is that he was hired for his personality, rather than his intelligence, which I believe is wrongheaded. I'm just a guy on a message board, not a bigshot like you, Brooks. Verducci (who I'm generally not a fan of) made a good point yesterday that I think is at play here. He essentially said that in the current era, a team's culture is set by the FO and that most managers are mere extensions of the FO now, with a few exceptions. (Maddon, Showalter, maybe Girardi) In the case of the Sox, all logic has been discombobulated by the Ozzie experience - they merely want a dutiful soldier. That's aiming too low, imo.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) But you seem to know what he should be doing strategically. Can you share your resume? We're not candidates, so, irrelevant.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) Ravelo is getting dinged for playing a power position and displaying a lack of power. Barnum ranks ahead of him because, for all of his faults, the kid has power that will play at 1B. Ravelo is a guy that seems to have reached his ceiling in that he is a really solid contact hitter but really offers little else in the way of tools. If he played 2B, he would be a top 5 guy, but as a 1B/DH his long term projection is as a bench bat. It is tough to see a lot of upside in Ravelo at this point, and that is what this list really reflects more than anything is their perceived ceiling of these players. In a new era of pitching dominance, many scouts are severely undervaluing the hit tool, imo. The Sox play in a league with a DH, and both of ours are departing shortly. To somewhat paraphrase the original Robocop. , "Good offense is where you find it."

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 07:12 AM) Ravelo is a serious head-scratcher. On the flip side, so is Adam Lopez. During the offseason, he didn't make anyone else's Top 20 or 25 or 30 even. A couple of us FS voters had him getting a couple low-end votes on a T30, but then we heard about the knee surgery. Now, he's missed most of the year, was already old for level, and in addition to the knee is now having "elbow problems". And he's #16? WTF? Actually , Lopez was somewhere around #15 on Callis' offseason list. The average poster here has a better take on our system. People just like lists, apparently.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:44 AM) Tyler may have been more likely to get a hit there, but he was also way more likely to strikeout and way more likely to hit into a DP. Vs. a lefty with a sweeping breaking ball? no. The pitch ADA struck out on was two feet outside. Same pitch might have hit TF on the ankle, tying up the game. Only half-joking here.

Tyler was the clear choice to PH for De Aza. Despite having a lousy year, and small sample sizes, granted, he's OPSing 450 points better than ADA vs. lefties. And he's currently a "hot" bat, regardless of the reasons or their validity. Two batters ahead of DeAza I noted that Tyler should hit for him if it came to that. Yes, the players failed, inexcusably. Yes, many other changes are also needed. Frustration with players does not excuse Robin's incompetence.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) Bad, bad trade. Good idea to trade Reed, but a terrible move to waste 40 save value on such a flawed player. They were fooled by his semi-successful cup of coffee in the bigs - a 117+ wRC in AAA translates as a borderline MLBer. Bad scouting, I guess. Eaton trade looks good. RH will need to do better than 50-50 for the team to turn the corner, though.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 04:21 PM) I guess white sox management don't wanna win cus they aint winning s*** with ventura as manager They want to win. There's just a cloyingly-sweet family atmosphere among JR's inner circle that makes objectivity difficult. I just hope that someone is actually evaluating Robin.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 04:09 PM) He was just extended so I doubt he gets fired Nope, won't happen. They love him because of who he isn't. And that's rather specious reasoning when you think about it.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 03:43 PM) Ventura's really bad strategically. He would have been a lot, lot better had he spent 5 years on a ML bench, managing in the minors, or something. This. 15 games in a season is ridiculous, of course, but somewhere between 2 to 5 games isn't. Many, many playoff appearances , or lack thereof, are decided by such margins. This team can't afford any handicaps beyond a mediocre roster.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) There are some games where I agree robin messed up. This is one of those games where his correct decisions didn't work out so children convince themselves they were incorrect decisions by a stupid baby idiot Look, the OP is way over the top. But, in no universe is batting DeAza there a correct decision. Guy's got an army of publicists here. I tried.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) On this team, with 3 hitters (2 starters) who the manager insists need pinch runners and uses them liberally, you need to have some pitchers ready for the job. Even without that, making sure a .083 hitter doesn't bat against a lefty closer is a bigger priority than making sure the trailing runner has a PR. And he still could have used Flowers to bat. Truth.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 03:07 PM) There's just no way you let PK run. Having Rienzo do it is not automatically an option; there's a reason you almost never see this, especially in the AL, especially in a non-extra inning game. Pitchers need to have a lot of notice to get their legs loosened up because they didn't prepare to do any running that day. Perkins is an excellent closer and several guys didn't get the job done at the dish. Gillaspie was a pinch hit candidate as well, but of course we didn't do that either. The real issue we witness here, other than just run-of-the-mill guys not quite getting their jobs done, is the continued hamstringing of our bench due to the fact we have two DH-only players. Regardless, literally NO excuse to let DeAza hit there. Could have anticipated being boxed-in like that, but didn't. Gillaspie is having a breakout season and it makes sense to give him some non-platoon rope and see if he can improve v. lefties. Everyone knows what 30 y.o. DeAza is, and isn't. Not comparable. Not excusable.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) Not being able to see the game, but really Ventura's best option might have been having someone like Rienzo run for PK, as it was obvious De Aza was going to have to face a LHP in that inning. Oh well, still doesn't change my mind this team should sell in the next week. That would have been smart. The best option is clearly NOT to have DeAza facing a lefty in the game's crucial AB, and yet that's what he did. Sorry defenders. Love the guy, but Robin does indeed suck as a manager.

Most critical AB of the game, and we put up a .083 hitter.

QUOTE (almagest @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 02:52 PM) Twins announcers wondering why DeAza is hitting, since he's hitting .083 against lefties. I don't think we have any outfielders left on the bench besides Leury. He could leave either Leury or Sierra in the game. And... ADA strikes out. As I said, just ONCE....

Please PH Flowers for De Aza.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Again, all I blamed Robin for was not going out to find out what was going on and to give his pitcher a little support and show his players he's into the game and has their backs. I didn't blame him nor imply he was to blame for any of the pitches Beli threw. If you inferred that I did you are mistaken. Some here seem to think Robin never does anything less than perfectly. Only a few. It's hard to blame him for specific losses, but just once I'd like to see him be one step ahead of the opposite dugout. Get used to him, though. The anti-Ozzie will get a long leash.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) The Sox TV crew was commenting on how Carroll was starting to leave the ball up. Thanks. Yeah, the pen blows. Team just can't handle any success. Sucks.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 02:18 PM) He was leaving ball up and it was getting hit hard albeit to defenders. Did not bode well. Pitch count is not everything. "watching" on gameday, which indicated a lineout in the 6th, but also a K and a soft groundout.

Why was Carroll pulled after 78 pitches?

In the 115 year history of the franchise, the current club has it's best-ever pitcher, and 2nd or 3rd best-ever hitter (don't want to offend all the Jackson fans out there). This is something that can be built around. Get it done, Rick.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 01:52 AM) He's got a thread, and he was totally never abandoned, not even once, and certainly not for like 3 years... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry3026904 Ah, so YOU'RE the AAP slacker.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) How was that a strike? Mike Schmidt's "force field" can't arrive soon enough. They'd have something going here if Conor had got the walk he deserved.