ILMOU

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2014/...e-rough-sunday/ Recap posted. Adam Lopez makes his 2014 debut. Finally. And a good inning to start. It's been an encouraging week for the future (short, medium and long term) of Sox pitching, from Noesi down to Guerrero. Lopez another AFL candidate?

Not really sure what the point of the batting-behind-Miggy stats was - he's always had credible threats behind him is what I gather from it. If you allow Abreu to be treated like a #8 hitter in the NL, he will suffer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) Prince hit behind Miguel during his MVP years. Good catch (had forgotten already, lol), but no slouch, and VMart moved right into that slot when PF was out.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) Also, lineup protection is largely a myth unless the guy hitting behind you is Barry Bonds. They're going to pitch to or around Abreu early in the game no matter what, and if they bring a lefty to hit behind him in, they'll still pitch to or around (or walk) Abreu regardless of the lefty behind him. VMart behind Miggy to the tune of back2back MVP's says otherwise. If there's a huge dropoff in quality after Oso, he won't get pitched honestly, ever. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) No, it's terribly misguided. Yes, more playing time represents a more significant sample size, but if people are really swayed by 40-50 additional at bats, then I have ocean view property in North Dakota to sell them. The guy absolutely deserves a chance, and I've never denied this, but there's no rush to get him to the majors. The larger outcry should come from the group that wants to see Semien/Johnson/Sanchez given an extended look at 2B, but even I've admitted that there's not going to be a signficant difference in how we feel about those guys going into next year no matter what they do. Frankly, getting Wilkins some starts in the OF, even if he's got absolutely no range out there, isn't the worst thing in the world for his prospects of making the MLB roster out of Spring Training. A player will get closer to 100-120 PA's in a whole month of action - there's still about 80 to be had before September. Not insignificant. Been calling for the idea of trying him in LF for a month now.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:45 AM) The chance to dump Danks is long over. He's been pitching lousy for a month. Sox are stuck with him for 2 more years. Maybe the pen will work better. If true, they can't just make him a starter by default. We'll need at least 5 guys who are better SPs. I really don't want to watch another 400 innings of a player, who I used to really enjoy watching, shotputting the ball up there at 86mph.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:06 AM) Then people are terribly misguided. More AB's yields a better sample is not misguided. Spring Training is illusory (you never know what you're facing) and who knows where the offseason money will be spent. If it's spent on a DH, will Wilkins ever get an honest look? The time is now, or ten days ago, actually, and each day of lollygagging is a lost opportunity. No, it's not life or death or anything, but as I recall us discussing, and you echoing, one of the primary purposes of this entire season is to learn about what we have and what we need. Nothing to be learned about Dunn - plenty, potentially, to be learned about AW, regardless of how remote the chance of success. They've operated with learning at the forefront on the pitching side all season - but they're dragging their heels now on position players. This is how you make a rebuild season valuable, and we're screwing it up. Things can still be salvaged, as it's only the 11th, but waiting until crowded September, where he'll also have to fight Paulie farewell sentiment PA's, would just be wrong. In general, this kind of points to July 31, 2014 as the day the rebuild went askew, and RH hasn't yet recovered. It was a sort of triple whammy: - they failed to improve the team by acquiring near mlb ready talent in exchange for veterans that aren't part of the future - they failed to provide opportunity for learning about young players by clearing the dead weight - by not unloading any payroll midseason, there's less in the offseason till to acquire positions of need Of course, most of this is on the players non-performance - essentially, Beckham, De Aza, Dunn and Danks played themselves into untradeability, so Plan A went out the window. But if Plan B is to merely wait it out, that's another fail. This midseason stumble, coupled with the failure of most of the young/reclamation pitchers, necessitates some new strategy from RH to get the train back on the rails, imo. QUOTE (Lillian @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) Another point, which I made in a previous post, is that a left handed power hitter, to protect Abreu, is a top priority of the organization. There are very few candidates to fill that role, whom they could acquire in free agency, even if they were that eager to spend big money. Wilkins is the only player in the organization who could potentially fill that need. Why not do everything possible to try to get a better "read" on his chances? What is the point of leaving him in AAA? ^^^

Charlotte lineup making a really tough pitcher in Henry Owens work really hard.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 11:18 AM) Tim Anderson ‏@TimAnderson7 23h Throw A Ball, Hit A Ball Saturday #Day2? Good to hear. Should we expect him to be in a fall league to make up for lost AB's? AFL?

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 07:59 AM) Danish has excellent stuff. His motion is the biggest thing holding him back in the eyes of scouting services, followed by his size. Scouting services hate short pitchers, even when their present stuff is plenty good - look at Marcus Stroman. He has well-regarded, but obviously fell too far in that draft So true. And it seems like such a unfounded bias, because there's been so many high quality shortish pitchers over the years. How many before it's not considered an exception?

Wilkins 1-1 double.

It's August 10 and we're still watching Gordo and Dunn. The midseason fail continues.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 07:50 PM) Don't sleep on Luis Martinez either. Got an eye on Guerrero too.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 06:42 PM) Chris Bassitt continues to prove doubters wrong. Hope he can do the same in AFL this year and gets a chance to battle for the 5th spot in next ST. The Hound is dealing tonight. 11K 0R thru 6 IP. Six consecutive K's.

6 IP 0H 0R 2BB 5K 10GO 2FO

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 07:58 AM) I definitely agree with Wilkins and Semien, Sanchez I feel could still benefit from more AAA seasoning, as he is still really young. Semien would produce equally if not better than Beckham. Wilkins would probably struggle, but you have to see if he can be an MLB bat because of how valuable his contract would be, especially with the Sox HUGE need in the rotation. I think Hahn is still holding out hope that someone will make a waiver deal for Dunn/Beckham down the stretch and he wants both of them to keep getting ABs to get a hot streak going. Unfortunately, I think you're right. And I think this is foolishly chasing scraps, when we should be learning about our assets or lack thereof. Perhaps JR doesn't want to eat any more contracts after Keppy, but this is getting more aggravating daily.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Leury's spot is irrelevant unless it would have been Saladino, as those guys in AAA (Micah, Marcus and Carlos Sanchez) need to be getting regular at-bats and wouldn't even if they were promoted. Whether Marcus or Carlos could benefit from sitting on the bench again, that's arguable. They wouldn't do it with Semien, so it's really do you want Carlos Sanchez to be playing 1-2 times per week instead of Leury Garcia? Add in platooning with Gillaspie, giving Lexi a day off here and there, and a few looks in the OF for Marcus, and there's plenty of AB's for both him and either Sanchez or Johnson IF Beckham AND Leury are removed from the equation as they already should have been. If Leury's ever going to be a legit major leaguer of any sort, he needs the regular AB's the most anyway, and he can get them in Charlotte.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) They're not going to waive or send down Viciedo. They are much more likely to do that (DFA) with DeAza, IMO. Or simply send down Sierra until September. DeAza HAS to be living on borrowed time, one would think. Beckham, Leury, De Aza and Dunn should all have seen their last PA's in Sox uni, is the gist of it. These are opportunities wasted, and it's making a poor midseason for the rebuild (so far) worse.

Still. Raking. 1263 OPS in August so far to back up his July. Regardless of how remote his chances of MLB success may or may not be, they're screwing the pooch here. We should be watching him now instead of Dunn, but aren't. And it might be Andy's only real opportunity against real MLB pitching. Sucks.

Avi for De Aza or Viciedo or Sierra Wilkins for Dunn Any two of Semien, Sanchez and Johnson for Beckham and Leury Should have been watching this for a week already now. Make it change soon, RH.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) I wasn't trying to be condescending. Look around this thread - there are people in here with a wide range of knowledge on this stuff. I don't really know how much you do or don't know, so I start simple. Wasn't meant to offend. No problem. It's AG

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) Evaluating talent in the minors cannot be as fully about stats as you want it to be. The question being asked is about future MLB value, not who is doing best in the minors. Those are sometimes two different things. On Hawkins, you have to keep in mind: A) He was assigned far too aggressively last year, B) He's still quite young, C) his physical tools in a number of areas dwarf that of some of the prospects you'd bump him for and D) no one is ignoring any reports. On that last point, there's one particularly loud BP kid who fancies himself as a younger Jason Parks, who has been saying his ceiling is a 4th OF. Ceiling. Someone like that should be ignored - and if you read the rest of his tweets, he's obviously immature and lacking in much idea of the gray reality of prospects. Hawkins has improved, a lot, while still quite young for his level. On both Hawkins AND Davidson, you can't fully abandon ship based on part of a, or even one entire, season. You have to look at the complete picture. It's easy to ask what someone as done for you lately, but that isn't always the right question to ask. Numbers in the minors can tell you things, especially if you look at the right ones. But they are only part of the picture, especially at the younger/lower levels. There's been more than just a few negative reports coming on Hawkins. He's young, as you say. There's definitely hope. I have him between 5-6. I'm much more concerned about Davidson's prospects. He just looks a guy whose contact issues will overwhelm any usefulness against advanced pitching. Struggling mightily in repeat full year of AAA in apparent hitter's paradise. I have him between 11-13. And you can spare the condescending attitude about the relative meaning of MiLB numbers - been following this s*** a long time, and I think I know what I'm seeing and not seeing. One thing that is hard not to notice, is that when a player such as Davidson repeats an upper level of the minors, for a full season, and he regresses badly in it, and it's not due to injury, and the previous season was already a significant downgrade from the prior, and he doesn't have the physical gifts or the youth/inexperience (like a Hawkins) to earn the complimentary raw label - then his chances of becoming an effective big league player are miniscule.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 06:30 AM) You're right about Hawkins. He has rebounded a little bit, as you said. He's hitting around .250, not as many strikeouts, decent extra base hit numbers, good speed, -- he has improved. It'll be interesting to see how he handles AA next year. I don't know what that has to do with my placing Davidson in the bottom half of the top 25. But you said it -- 6, count 'em 6 seasons in pro ball. That's a lot of experience to have this bad of a year. It's not out of the question to see both Davidson and Ravelo as teammates next year at Charlotte. Who do you think will have better numbers? I say Ravelo, who is younger and a better prospect IMO. Hawkins and Davidson especially are ridiculously too high. Apparently the "still looks awful" scouting reports about Hawkins are being largely ignored. Davidson's the only guy in Charlotte who can't hit. I have serious doubt that either contributes anything at the MLB level. Don't let anyone give you crap about Davidson, oldsox. Denial dies hard. Adams also a little crazy-high due to SSS.

Wilkins continues to rake in August.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 06:51 PM) This is why I was advocating taking ANYTHING from the Yankees, not playing hard ball. Get out from under this terrible contract for a pitcher who is just bad now. No doubt about it. Ship has sailed along with Danks' ERA.

Game over. Danks can't be in next year's rotation. Things went south in a hurry. Have a good night, guys.