michelangelosmonkey

Because I was trying to show the hypocrisy of your position? Of COURSE it's not Pelosi or Cuomo's fault. It's a new virus, it was early day's and humans try to make the most of sketchy information and balance hundreds of interests. No one knew until everyone knew.

OK that's all sounds reasonable but how...how do you have flight or airports that aren't cesspools for diseases? How do you enforce quarantine? How do you deal with damnable Americans that say "no one's going to tell ME what to do". And are we certain that this is the right path? How much economic destruction can we tolerate? And what happens after we have a 12 month shut down and some idiot comes from China with it and infects five people? We are right back here and the country falls off a cliff.

But see that's the problem with something unknown. You make firm conclusions about what would have happened and what's going to happen and we just don't know. I still can't figure out why there aren't ten million dead in China if all you say is true.

I really think it is fascinating what has happened in China. I mean there should be ten million dead there, right? Everyone has damaged lungs from the smog, everyone smokes, backwards medical care compared to US, massively crowded cities. Sure they shut down Wuhan...after a MONTH...and after letting hundreds of thousands travel all over China for the New Years...to every village...to every big city. They aren't telling us something or there is something unique about the virus. There is a missing bit of evidence. How can India have only a couple of thousand deaths? Its really weird.

I get so twisted in the arguments. He was an asshole for not doing anything about the spread of the virus from Italy and he is an asshole for doing something to stop the spread of the virus from Italy. And you are really positioning yourself as arguing in a non-partisan way?

You honestly can't believe the numbers from China??? Still India, Indonesia, Pakistan? Something weird about this virus. Oh thats right...they don't have Trump as president intentionally killing us.

And three days later he shut down travel from Europe. You pull little quotes out of the 10 million words the president has spoken in the last four months and twist them into a narrative that makes him look like he wasn't doing anything. The total deaths on February 26th from Corona virus in the US were zero. ZERO!!! Should we have shut the country down then? Hello all Americans...I know no one has this and no one has died from this and the cure will cost trillions of dollars but we are going to shut this place down February 26th. Honestly its stupid hindsight argument.

I was JOKING to my class. But yes...the president should have done something...like declare it a public health crisis and put in travel restrictions from China a few days later...which is what he did in spite the criticisms of racism that he received (and both Pelosi and Cuomo encouraging their citizens to go to Chinese New Year celebrations over the warning of the Federal government. But...you know...all Trumps fault. What would have you done?

It was completely ridiculous of me to try to come to DNC headquarters and try to argue that the virus is a virus and people are going to die almost no matter what we did and that non-stop blaming of the president is boring. But you win.

Sorry...yes I was thinking of 1918...100 million people and 675,000 dead, 1957: 172 million people 116,000 dead, 1968 200 million people 100,000 dead. Today 330 million 85,000 dead. So balancing for today's population 1918: 2.2 million 1957: 222,000 1968: 165,000 Today: 85,000 And just for fun, bubonic plague Italy 14th Century: 200,000,000 How do you figure it is 6 times more deadly or 3? Not semantics...math. Either way its a deadly virus. Viruses can be bad. China's actions were those of a totalitarian state that was purposely hiding things. I've looked at the time lines we took and the deaths and trying to be fair minded thinking how do you decide where the prudent decision is. I think the president took, and was deeply criticized for, some big decisions. He missed on some too. If you want to live in your tent and blame all unknown on him...whatever.

Do you know how big organizations work? There is $3 billion funding within the CDC specifically for preparing "Protecting Americans from Infectious Diseases at Home & Abroad". I'm sure within that $3 billion they had a special pandemic preparation team that was set up during the Swine flu epidemic and has just lingered around. When they reallocated resources within that budget that doesn't mean they fired all those people and burned all the plans...it just means they didn't meet every Tuesday for three hours. * In late February there were 68 cases in the US. Would you have closed down the country at that point? Was it unreasonable to tell people to be calm at that point? * I'm not sure what you mean by peddling snake oil sales..hydrochloroquine in conjunction with zinc and asythromyacine still could be useful...but your omniscience seems to know a cheap, readily available solution is not even worth looking at. * Back in February the demand was to ramp up production of ventilators and he did that but now that's not the narrative because it doesn't fit into your idea. Shift the goal posts. * Really? President Trump today announces Illinois won't be getting masks because NYC needs them more...Illinois residents respond...well we're cool with that. * He got crap because he wasn't going to force the states to close...so he said he was going to and then he got crap for that. In a time when no president has ever done anything like this. But sure...you're criticism is fair and balanced. * The CDC is a hammer and they see every problem as a nail. They have one goal and that is to make every citizen 100% safe from every disease. I have friends that started businesses in the last year that are just wiped out because of the shut down...lost everything...to protect the old and inform (90% of the deaths are people that are over 65 and/or have comorbidity). We cannot afford to shut down forever even if the CDC wants to...want to see their funding levels when we have no federal taxes? So yes, as I have said, the president made mistakes, as would President Obama or Lincoln or Jefferson. It's hard dealing with the unknown and it aggravating to have the peanut gallery shouting insults at every misstep. Can't wait for President Biden to save the world.

Oh the president is incredibly arrogant and smug. I just don't want to play the way the president plays.

I told my students January 27th..."well that's it, the end of the world has arrived...don't worry about your homework now". I mean really, when China closed down all traffic in and out of a region covering 40 million people because a few thousand had a new flu? There was something terrible that we didn't know about. That they knowingly allowed hundreds of thousands to leave the area the days before the shut down and travel all over the world was negligently launching the missile? Everything that happened after that was just waiting. I was right but not proud of it (and thankfully this thing is not as deadly as initially thought).

You know "I am right and you are wrong, I'm gonna sing the 'I was right song'" is not really an argument. It is arrogant smugness. But still have a nice day.

And you realize that's how politics work...you ask for a 10% raise, I offer a 10% cut and we settle somewhere in the middle. In the end the president signs every budget and it becomes his budget. To not only not give him credit for his budget when it doesn't suit your argument but to say he was forced to swallow the bitter pill of increase CDC spending just seems silly. And even if there was a little cut...$2.5 billion of the total CDC budget is specifically for the preparation of the country for Pandemics...and that has been the amount for a decade...so how did that $25 billion in government spending pay off when the monster was out of the cage/

A few days??? They announced to the WHO on December 31st about it. On January 6th a doctor and 13 nurses working on patients came down with it. On January 20th HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of residents of Wuhan left the city for the new years festive and traveled all over the world...including one of their favorite overseas destinations...Italy. Then January 23rd they closed up Wuhan. And you say we dithered about people coming in from Italy in February? Come on Balta that is just partisan hate...and yes hindsight. On February 18th there were THREE cases in Italy. By the end of February there were only 1,000 cases in a country of 60 million people. But a week and a half later we shut down travel from Europe. That is lightening speed. Please tell me the day that you, with perfect hindsight, shuts down Europe. Because its nonsense.

Fired the pandemic team is such a lazy argument. CDC funding in the last year under Obama was $7 billion...it was higher in every year of the Trump presidency. I showed the timeline...I'm not sure a reasonable president would have acted much differently. But yeah partisanship!! Go your team!

Sure I'm happy to go with a narrative of "The CDC REALLY botched this". The smartest scientists and it's their sole job to protect us from this sort of thing and they completely let us down. That is way more interesting a narrative that the president did nothing and that's why we are where we are. I'm also happy with a discussion about the virus and why the Chinese lied and lied and lied (and continue to lie today) and that led to tens of thousands of Americans dead. Interesting. The cure that biotech company in California said they found...interesting. The possibly early introduction into the US...maybe as early as mid-December in California...interesting. But comment after comment after comment slamming the president is lazy and boring.

If your argument is...President Trump is an asshole. I'm fine with supporting that. Go start a discussion page with that as a title and let free the vitriol. But the rest is utter nonsense. China announced the Virus on December 31st...and by the 3rd of January we were offering experts to Wuhan to help combat it. By January 6th the CDC issued a travel advisory against going to Wuhan. By the 11th they issued a level 1 health advisory against going to Wuhan. By the 20th the NIH began working on a vaccine. Also on the 20th the FIRST American came down with it...an American that had come from Wuhan. The administration declared the Corona virus a national health emergency on January 31st...and started travel restrictions...at that point there were SIX cases in the US. I guess it was when we hit the 7th case that we should have shut down the country??? Study what is happen...the virus is very interesting...but please leave the idiotic hindsight someplace else.

Of course the president made missteps. I guess on a sports talk site where "I can't believe he threw the curve ball with runners on second and third and a pitch to waste" is de rigueur. I also think when the loudest and most energetic voices that come here are Democrats, non-stop criticism about the president crowds out other voices. Still this section was supposed to be about the virus and as I said...it started off interesting but the streams of hurled accusations followed by "I can't believe HE made this political" is "not compelling". As for the government scaling things up...again perfect hindsight. The government should have just taken the government factories and started producing testing immediately. In fact it's amazing that we didn't have an enormous stock pile of tests for this never-before-seen virus in government warehouses someplace. And imagine our incompetence that 60 days after this never-before-seen virus started invading our country that we were not 100% prepared. If you start with the end point..."The President is an idiot" then you fill in the evidence to make it work and throw out evidence that doesn't fit the narrative and then shout it from the rooftops and have it echoed by people that think exactly as you do it may seem as if you have the truth. It just doesn't seem convincing to me. I think the president is an egomaniac and I hate his NYC aggressive style...it offends my Midwest sensibilities. I thought President Obama was one of the most decent men to ever be president...but to say he would have done better is farcical. President Trump is not trying to kill off his voters. He and his advisors are trying to make heroes of themselves...which is exactly what I want my leader to do in a crisis.

Interesting...so you are saying you trade your 6 WAR SS because you have a kid a AAA who will be a 3 WAR and in return you get a 4 WAR outfielder to replace your 0 WAR outfielder? The net result being 7 WAR for your team? Still it seems you could trade your 3 WAR AAA player and get a 3 WAR outfielder and your team is much better. I'm not sure how trading 6 WAR for 4 WAR is ever a good idea even in your scenario because it ignores opportunity costs.

I think that is already been proven about NYC virus coming from two spots. But California is the main entrepot for people coming from China. I think we may find out that it has been circulating in California for six weeks before anyone else. If someone died of flu like symptoms in California mid-December to mid-January no one would even have thought to look if it was Coronavirus. And again...the president did cut off travel from Europe pretty quickly. With perfect hindsight we know that it should have been sooner...but honestly condemning a leader for lacking hindsight on something that has never happened before? I can't recall the US ever quarantining other countries.

Honestly Australia is not like America, it's 8% of the population of US...it is 91% White....three cities have 50% of the population...equivalent to NYC, LA and Chicago each having 50+ million people. It is not a business, tourist or education hub.

US population in 1957 was 1/3 of what it is today....and we were MUCH less mobile. A person in Springfield, Ill in 1957 was unlikely to go to NYC much less Milan or Wuhan. We were also much more rural. I think the 1957 virus is going to be very similar to that one...maybe a bit worse. But we won't know for a while and certainty is a casualty of chaos.

Hydroxycholoquine has been used for a hundred years on patients. It's side effects are well known, it's cheap and easily produced. It would have been great if it was helpful and maybe it is...but it needs to be tested together with Zinc and Arythromyacine and there are still promising results. And really...you don't believe the President says..."ok...stop all fronts...we are going to only devote our time and energy to Hyrdo..."? This thing is coming at us from a hundred directions and we are pushing back in a hundred ways...and to say...Look...he recommended that and it didn't work...he's an idiot....just makes you a partisan with perfect hindsight. There is no country like the US...we have the #1 economy in the world so we have more business travelers coming here from overseas than anywhere else, we are top tourist destination, we are #1 destination for international students our citizens are rich and mobile and travel frequently all over the world. We have unfettered domestic travel...with hundreds of possible destinations for overseas people to come visit...we have massive urban and rural places. We are the oddest country in the world. To think that US wouldn't be the hardest hit is a misunderstanding of what America is. Doing worse than Iran and China? There are no way those are true numbers. Doing worse than India...that is SO weird. Why is California been so lightly hit versus NYC? So many weird things about what is going on with the Virus...making this a political screed is not one of them.