Chombi

I am sorry. You have too many "should's" and "could's" in there. Being a .500 team doesn't make us a contender IMO. If it does, it means our division is beating on eachother and if thats the case, we won't be a .500 team. We will be near it, but not above it. Even if we are, it's a waste cuz we spent 100 mill to play .500 baseball and not make the playoffs. 1) I can agree with but with those numbers...they "should've" won more games this year and didn't. Javy isn't someone you can completely rely on yet. Mark B I am hoping wins 15 but who knows. As far as top 1-2...Idk. We don't even have the top 1-2 in our division. If Liriano is healthy, we are 3rd in our division. 1-2-3 I'd say with Garland may be the best in our division but even that has a case for not being true. 2) Should have a good year in a contract year. I am one who believes in that theory until it comes to our own players. It is a 50/50 thing and maybe moreso untrue then anything else. So this I do not buy. The shoulder troubles and what not I agree with but...how do we know he is healthy? So for #2 we disagree. 3) Why can't they be as bad? I for one think they don't need to add anyone via trade or FA and I think it would be stupid to do so, but I seem to be in the minority. Our bullpen is trouble but I think some of those guys who failed last year can turn it around. 4) Nothing says Richar will improve. We hope he does. I hope he does but I have little faith in him. IDC what JD does, he needs to be healthy. AJP I think will bounce bat because I think he is a good natural hitter. All that said...It doesnt make us a contender. This team is getting older. Our speed isn't baseball worthy yet. We have a lot of issues and you can't expect oft-injured Dye, Thome, Crede to help this team. Banking on those things leads to trouble because you aren't prepared for the "what if's"...Think Cubs w/Wood and Prior. This team contended a couple years ago. That window may have a crack left but I'd say w/how good Cleveland and Detroit are and w/Minnesota and KC not being a bad ball club, that our team just doesn't have enough to beat those teams the way they did in 05/06. I think being a .500 club is potentially there if everything goes right. However, I'll plan for the MEAN and not go too pess or optimistic. To me that is no good though. At best, this team isn't a playoff team. They just aren't. It would take a complete flop out of Cleveland and Detroit...and trust me, they will be better. They have much better talent from their farms coming into play this season then we do. I do not want to spend 100 mil and hear JR complain about how much we spend now and how we won't spend when we need to because of our poor performances when the payroll was high. I'd prefer to go all in, or fold. In this case, I'd say we are much better folding and dumping our vets for as much young talent as we can.

If they get Garza for Rolen..I'll be completely shocked. I'd imagine something else has to be with it. I mentioned this in another thread a few minutes ago cuz my buddy from STL told me they were in talks w/Minnesota the last two days. He said they called about Rasmus and don't have enough for him I guess. He said they're interested in Rolen, Rasmus, Ankiel or Duncan. Rolen, Ankiel and Duncan I can all see worthy of acquiring Bonser. Still leaves Minnesota with Santana, Liriano, Baker, Garza and Slowey. Rolen though would have to have some of his contract eaten like someone said. No way the Twins pay him 11 mil to sit on the 60-day.

My buddy in Stl said that the Twins inquired about Rasmus and that they are discussing Rolen/Rasmus/or a different young OF (ankiel young? and Duncan). If they are looking at Rasmus for one of those arms they are crazy. They need something else IMO. If not, I'd say we have a very slim chance if we were to ever consider getting involved.

Jones has been on Williams board forever it seems. Bringing him in now I just don't see happening unless it's at a discount. Boras has said he wants 15 mil for multi or he'll take the cheap end on a one year "rebuild value" deal. If that's true, I can't see us even bother. I did see something about a 13 mil deal but that was via mlbtr so I don't know if it was something of substance. If it is legit then maybe we will get involved. I'd say Rowand and Hunter may have to be off the table as well. Anyone have concerns w/Jones? Maybe he isn't 30? Maybe he needs to come into camp in shape for once. They said he has lost a step but I don't know where. So??? Tough call on him.

Let's hear it for Miggy! God I want a Cabrera jersey.

Yea Mt. Prospect isn't far from me. I would've perhaps grown up a Cub fan if it was there....That thought makes me very sick.

So then what do you think we do? Do we sell high and if no problems ever occur, so be it? Or do we wait for his first struggles so the media can blame his arm and then have to sell low? Maybe we can still deal him in a Mike Sirotka fashion if that were to happen with Jenks.

Idk. I'd like to be optimistic about it but I just can't. We have 2 holes in the OF. Essentially 2 holes in the infield. I am high on our bullpen's potential, but I was high on it last year. Potential is nothing but I think bp is very hard to improve. Our rotation I just can't figure out how it's good enough to get the wild card....MB needs to pitch well. JV is giving me a Contreras vibe where I am finally content w/him, he is getting to where his stuff says he should be and then....boom...we all saw what Jose did. Garland I doubt will be here, if he is, he isn't going to make us a wild card player. The Royals will be better. The Twins have better pitching then we do. Cleveland is better in every aspect of the game and Detroit is better all-around as well. This team is no better then 3rd. I do want to see what you have to say though because maybe you'll give me some hope...but please don't invest hope in moves that haven't happened yet cuz that's not going to help me. I hope what you have to say is right.

I'd be ok w/ that gaping hole if it meant we landed a HOF bat. I don't think Jenks is going to turn into Rivera or Hoffman. Also, am I the only one concerned about Jenks arm? Doesnt he have like a screw holding it together or something? We all have voiced are complaint on Miggy's "weight problem" but I am much more concerned w/ Bobby's. I have no problem keeping Jenksy. I love the Michelin man. I do have my concerns with him and they outweigh Miggy's, both figuratively and literally.

So does the weight fall on KW, or does it fall on our poor scouting, player development, where? Do you think that a few years in the dumps would do this organization good? I don't see us being contenders with how tough this division is. So would it make sense from a business standpoint and an organization standpoint to go with the "kids can play" moto and let them develop up in the show. We were the only team excluding NYY or maybe just the only team in general I believe to not have a top 10 pick in the last 15+ years. I forget the stat, but I believe prior to this upcoming draft we hadn't had one. Deal for prospects, scout better both for our draft and also internationally. Then be ready for 2 years from now. 100 mil a year to get a top 10 pick is a joke.

My opinion is you are correct. I thought this opinion was correct last year. I did it as a joke at first to play devils advocate and take the pessimist approach to my roommate, who is a glass half-full guy. As the first weeks went by though and I saw it coming true, only much worse then I thought. I didnt back off all year. I was hoping for a huge firesale at the deadline so we would could evaluate what talent we would've gotten and see what we would need to do in FA since we wouldn't be contenders for a few years anyway. Now, the offseason has started and unless there is a few tricks up KW's sleeve, we will have another long season. Won't be as bad IMO, but it'll be bad. There are alot of problems and issues as you said, but to our credit, our team isn't as bad as they played for 2 reasons. 1) Bad years everywhere. Somewhat flukey. (2) we play in a tough division and it takes it toll....That said, we still have a division that is only going to be one year better. So I don't see much improvement. Our bullpen I think will bounce back. I still have faith in guys like Mike Mac, I like Thorton, Logan has grown on me, and I think we will have a couple young future SP's up in that pen this year that will help. Could we use another arm? Sure. I don't want it through FA cuz I am not spending 8 mil on a bp arm...unless... Idk how you guys feel about it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Contreras out of the pen after watching how bad he looked all year. I've said it alot on here. I think mentally he may not have the late inning make-up but for a long or middle relief guy I think one or two innings could work out of him. He needs to throw strikes but for one inning having to see his stuff and his arm angles, it could work out. IDK, something I have been pondering. Our offense is bad. No leadoff hitter and our power is old. I was very upset to hear Thome wanted to retire here b/c I am all for it, but I really thought he would've had some value at the deadline last season. Same goes for JD. Richar is not our guy. We made the deal, I thought he was going to be a back-up not our starter. If he is, I'll be very upset. Our 3rd base situation sucks. If Crede is healthy and shows he has it, I want to keep him. Maybe it's more of a personal thing but I love Joe Crede. I think his glove is so valuable and I think that with a healthy back finally maybe he'll field even better and hit. If not, I don't see a difference between he and Fields bat...Fields, idk whats going on there. KW says he wants Crede but doesnt want Fields in the OF. To me, that means one of those two is out the door. Odds are in Crede's favor, but I wouldn't be shocked for something different. I don't mind Owens in LF. He performed better then I thought he would so why not take the gamble. Hunter scares me but I like the move. His age is a problem but it's more of a morale thing in getting him. One of our biggest division foes is now on our side. I mean, everyone remembers that burke play and how it just sucked the life out of us. I was there that night and outside of everyone threatening to kill Hunter, it was lifeless. So a great defender, great guy, morale booster and what appears to be a vastly improved bat going into our park would be nice. Uribe I am cool with because his last name isn't Eckstein. There really was much else out there and it wasn't like a long-term thing, it was a one year thing. I am all for it. His glove is worth 4 of that 4.5 mil. Our rotation is Enh. Hopefully Javy can repeat. I hope MB has no pressure on him anymore and will perform. If he doesn't, send him to STL already. Garland i'd be happy to have back but I see him being moved. Jose, you know my feelings on. So that 3-4-5 spot are basically up for grab and I am excited for it. Have some youth in that rotation who need to compete for that job daily since we have such a "surplus" of young 3/4 starters in the minors. It'll be bad w/ no Garland but it'll be fun to see them mature. I think I addressed all of your questions and I agree with you for the most part. God I'd like to see a firesale still. It'd be fun if you ask me. No team should have a 100 mil payroll and end up with a top 10 pick. If so, they all need to go and you can get your top 10 pick playing with kids and see what you got.

My opinion is you are correct. I thought this opinion was correct last year. I did it as a joke at first to play devils advocate and take the pessimist approach to my roommate, who is a glass half-full guy. As the first weeks went by though and I saw it coming true, only much worse then I thought. I didnt back off all year. I was hoping for a huge firesale at the deadline so we would could evaluate what talent we would've gotten and see what we would need to do in FA since we wouldn't be contenders for a few years anyway. Now, the offseason has started and unless there is a few tricks up KW's sleeve, we will have another long season. Won't be as bad IMO, but it'll be bad. There are alot of problems and issues as you said, but to our credit, our team isn't as bad as they played for 2 reasons. 1) Bad years everywhere. Somewhat flukey. (2) we play in a tough division and it takes it toll....That said, we still have a division that is only going to be one year better. So I don't see much improvement. Our bullpen I think will bounce back. I still have faith in guys like Mike Mac, I like Thorton, Logan has grown on me, and I think we will have a couple young future SP's up in that pen this year that will help. Could we use another arm? Sure. I don't want it through FA cuz I am not spending 8 mil on a bp arm...unless... Idk how you guys feel about it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Contreras out of the pen after watching how bad he looked all year. I've said it alot on here. I think mentally he may not have the late inning make-up but for a long or middle relief guy I think one or two innings could work out of him. He needs to throw strikes but for one inning having to see his stuff and his arm angles, it could work out. IDK, something I have been pondering. Our offense is bad. No leadoff hitter and our power is old. I was very upset to hear Thome wanted to retire here b/c I am all for it, but I really thought he would've had some value at the deadline last season. Same goes for JD. Richar is not our guy. We made the deal, I thought he was going to be a back-up not our starter. If he is, I'll be very upset. Our 3rd base situation sucks. If Crede is healthy and shows he has it, I want to keep him. Maybe it's more of a personal thing but I love Joe Crede. I think his glove is so valuable and I think that with a healthy back finally maybe he'll field even better and hit. If not, I don't see a difference between he and Fields bat...Fields, idk whats going on there. KW says he wants Crede but doesnt want Fields in the OF. To me, that means one of those two is out the door. Odds are in Crede's favor, but I wouldn't be shocked for something different. I don't mind Owens in LF. He performed better then I thought he would so why not take the gamble. Hunter scares me but I like the move. His age is a problem but it's more of a morale thing in getting him. One of our biggest division foes is now on our side. I mean, everyone remembers that burke play and how it just sucked the life out of us. I was there that night and outside of everyone threatening to kill Hunter, it was lifeless. So a great defender, great guy, morale booster and what appears to be a vastly improved bat going into our park would be nice. Uribe I am cool with because his last name isn't Eckstein. There really was much else out there and it wasn't like a long-term thing, it was a one year thing. I am all for it. His glove is worth 4 of that 4.5 mil. Our rotation is Enh. Hopefully Javy can repeat. I hope MB has no pressure on him anymore and will perform. If he doesn't, send him to STL already. Garland i'd be happy to have back but I see him being moved. Jose, you know my feelings on. So that 3-4-5 spot are basically up for grab and I am excited for it. Have some youth in that rotation who need to compete for that job daily since we have such a "surplus" of young 3/4 starters in the minors. I think I addressed all of your questions and I agree with you for the most part. God I'd like to see a firesale still. It'd be fun if you ask me. No team should have a 100 mil payroll and end up with a top 10 pick. If so, they all need to go and you can get your top 10 pick playing with kids and see what you got.

Hmm...I didn't know he threw that many fastballs. I don't have a BA account so I usually go off of my own combination of things. He was a guy who I have liked for his control. His homers scared me but as you said, he didn't have an out pitch. I figured most teams would know that kind of thing and work with a pitcher to develop one. Kershaw's ceiling is through the roof. I honestly think I may have given more credit to Slowey from a minor league thing months back asking who I'd rather have on the mound...Price, Kershaw, Slowey and someone else. I forget who. I was already high on Slowey because of his control but maybe that is why I linked them. Uncharacteristic of me, but that is the only reason I could figure out for that. *Someone mentioned quality over quantity. That is exactly what I am getting at with this. A guy like Garza is worth more to an organization like this then a everyday 3rd baseman. Due to the lack of hitting we have, Fields may be more helpful for us right now. If we didn't have a piss poor farm system, I wouldn't see why trading Fields for Garza isn't done 10 of 10 times.

You're right. Stuff wise I agree...But Slowey is a talented arm. If Garza would prove his game a little at the mlb level I would go along with what everyone says about him but for now, Slowey pounds the strikezone and doesnt walk anyone. He easily is top 3 or command coming from the minors. Homer prone though. He may not be what Kershaw projects to become. He may not be David Price, Homer Bailey, or Andrew Miller but he is a good arm IMO.

Cordero I wouldn't mind. Maybe a one year deal for Gagne (Boras).

That's kind of my feeling too, although part of me still thinks of the Garza hype from when Liriano was dominating. I kept hearing they had someone as good or better then both He and Santana, that being Garza. I struggle getting it out of my head. I'd still probably move Fields for him. Obviously our lack of depth plays into not wanting to but I have a feeling once all our other trades are done this offseason we will have a few new offensive faces in that farm.

I see what you're saying but landing a Garza or Slowey is pretty close to a Kershaw. Slowey I would rank right under him. Garza was Kershaw a couple years ago, and as you said, sometimes things don't go right in the majors. Right now, I'd still say Garza is a darn good pitcher. To me, getting a guy like him is just one more "definite". Idk if I can use that word to describe a player but he would definately be in our rotation for years to come. Some of our young guys have huge question marks...Sisco, Massett, Floyd, Haeger and even some doubts on Broadway and Danks. If you did deal a bat in our thin farm system, I think it'd have to be for a better bat or a better arm then what we have. I go back to something I said in another thread about Miggy but this is how I see things like this...If you have a chance to upgrade in talent, you do it. It's up to the Front Office to do it and then it is up to them to make moves to replace that talent that is gone. In this case if you deal Fields for Garza lets say. You have to turn around and deal a Danks or something for young hitter like Fields. Thats just how I see business. If you add a young arm better than your best, you take one of those other arms now replaced and deal for a team looking for that arm and get a back. Lets play it like this if I am still not being clear....You deal Fields for Garza. Turn around and deal Danks or Broadway or Gio for a guy like Conor Jackson, Gomez, Gonzalez, Milledge, etc.

It shouldn't but most organizations have a top-flight guy when they enter in these biddings. We really don't so it's unfortunate but true I think. I have said it a few times and haven't gotten much feed back. To me, Jenks would be our equivalent to anything anyone else has to offer. He is a young, proven closer. Would they bite on him or no? Jenks, Danks and Fields.

http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1536123.html The article says the new gm Bill Smith wants to deal a young arm for a young bat. My question is...Obviously they're in our division so trades are rare (unless you're the pirates and give people to the cubs) but... Would you trade away a Fields for Garza or Slowey? I don't think they'd be open to it at first if they are commanding Delmon Young but that doesnt seem to be very legit. It's no secret they're in need a power bat to control so why not at least check. To me, you trade in your division if it's a win-win. Garza's mlb struggles make me think he has fallen off of that "may be even better then Santana or Liriano" talk they had before he came up. Slowey is a stud in the making so I doubt Fields would land him. Anyways....What do you all think? If it could be done, do you do it? Even if it's a division rival. Or is Fields not the bat? Do you not want a Garza?

Ok we will need to move more then any other team involved because we have by far the weakest package. The Dodgers are looking at 3 guys of several that we don't compare with Chad Billingsley, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Andy LaRoche, Clayton Kershaw, Scott Elbert, and Jonathan Meloan... We don't have anyone on their level. Any of them. Same goes for the Yankees w/ Melky, Hughes, Joba, Kennedey and even Sanchez IMO. Boston, although I hate Jon lester as a player, it's the same thing. We don't an ellsbury, lester, Bard, Buchholz. The list goes on....What we have is a surplus of low B talent. A bunch of 3 starters and a decent 3rd baseman. We have no real A talent in that farm we have. As far as the Mark Teixeira...Salty was one of the top catching prospects in baseball and they chose him over Kotchman so that should explain the talent. Especially for all those who wouldn't deal him for Paulie because they know how talented Kotchman is. I dont think salty is an A talent but I'd give him a B/B+. He is a switch hitting catcher. If you move him b/c of defense, he still has the power to fit in at 1st. They got Elvis Andrus who is going to be a stud. Long-term, I'd say he is more of an impact player for them over Salty. He is easily a B+/A guy and would be our top prospect. We might have even just brought him up over Uribe if we had him. They got Matt Harrison. Not the guy he was supposed to be because of shoulder problems but even w/his shoulder problems...the Braves still had his as their #1 pitching prospect. He is probably going into last season at the same level as Gio. Maybe higher? They got Feliez who is a developmental project but still has rediculous stuff. If we would have that arm in our system, we'd be lucky. So The Rangers got a ton for Tex. If we think we have anything that could've matched that deal for him, we live in a dream world. So, you can only imagine what it might take to get Cabrera if they really hunker down and demand value. (sorry to re-do the whole Tex trade review but the "low level" guys implies they are nothing when they are actually extremely highly rated, especially Andrus.)

Yea. I've been asking what their plan is w/that. I'd imagine they still anticipate dealing Melky or someone b/c I highly doubt they want to play Giambi at first and DH one of their 4 OF's.

Any big rap fans on here? PM me cuz i'll forget to come back and check.

We honestly do not have the stuff to land him if they expect a package like that from the Dodgers...Heck, take Kershaw out and replace him with several of their young arms and I bet Florida bites. The Sox may need to move Garland or something and hope to land another couple solid prospects. If you can do that, we can throw one of them into a deal w/ DLS, Gio, Fields, and even Danks. I still liked that idea someone mentioned of Jenks. I'd imagine Jenks holds more weight then a guy like Joba. Maybe we do Jenks, Danks and Fields for him?

Ok, maybe you missed the part you highlighted that said....If he is Healthy. Healthy meaning, he is the player and person physically and mentally that he was prior to this year. If he isn't healthy then clearly it changes things but Fields playing 162 games @ 3rd isn't going to make us a playoff contender. And Crede wasn't good in what sense? Comparing him to good 3rd bagger like Wright, Arod, Rolen, who? or u comparing him to Fields? If you ask me, they kind of have a similar offensive game and Fields doesnt have the gold glove ability at third that Crede does. I mean let's not forget we felt the same way about Crede when he first came up. His first real taste, not to two seasons where he played like one or two games, but that first season where he played like 50 games he put up better numbers then josh who played 100 this season. So why Josh Fields is being immortalized by us as this superstar is beyond me. If JC wasnt that good to begin with in your eyes, I can't imagine your opinion on Fields?

I don't disagree with Josh Fields being up. His .240 clip or .300 obp doesnt thrill me but no arguement he should be up. However, many people on this board have said guys like Ryan Bruan need to be moved or traded because of how bad they are defensively. If Fields has to play left, Idk if he wouldn't be in that category. Fields is a good athlete but it's not like LF is not going to take a lot of adjusting for him. We aren't moving him to 1st, it's LF. As far as 3rd base goes. Fields had a great year for us as a rookie on the offensive side. His defense isn't anywhere near being on Crede's level. If Crede is healthy, what leads this organization to steer away from the possibility he puts up a season like 06? It's something for a team that isn't going to contend to consider. IDC what Boras thinks, if there is no market of trade for Joe, he won't get a better offer then what we give.