Chombi

You don't think this team has a happy medium between this season and the two previous? Obviously additions and subtractions hurt/helped but I'd like to think that this team played a little under their standards this season. If not, and I am mistaken then all the more reason to not have kept lots of these guys around.

One thing that I am twisted about is this...Let's say we do this deal. Yes, it makes our team younger and potentially better down the road. If we add some quality FA's, then maybe it makes us better now. If we don't though, I can't see this team being better. I can see them having a better record next season as we all can agree this season seems to have been a fluke, but overall I can't see this team being better. The part that is bothering me through all of this is what was above, as that was more of an outline. It is that our front office seems to have no clue what they are doing. Now, Maybe the value they were getting at the deadline for some of these guys wasn't as good but either way the resigning of Dye just kills me. He of everyone seems he will age the worst. He is back to being injury prone and he plays a demanding position for an old guy. Why would we resign instead of dealing him for prospects, or letting him go for the draft picks?

I didn't like this deal at first glance. Kotchman is a good young player that I like and will continue to improve but he, shields and figgins i didnt think were good for us. I think we could get much better results by dealing Garland and Kong seperately, if that is our intentions. I do not want Figgins at all. So if there is a way to stick Adenhart, Kendrick or Wood in this deal then I would say go for it. Personally I would hope the Sox insist on one or two of these guys. Even if Shields gets dropped from the deal, adding an Adenhart can let you move a young prospect of lesser value for a different reliever. So long as this freed up money goes to a good cause (IE Arod or some of the SP available next year).

Ironically, I think Torre will be fired or let go and is actually going to be better suited for the team they are trying to mold. Sure he handles the "ego's" of these high paid stars but him being laid back might be better for the young talent that they're turning to. For the young kids, it's nice to have someone always in control while being calm and collected. Someone to tell you everything is fine. You know what I mean? It to me is funny because it looks like he is out the door and that his style just didn't work with the big payroll. Then they are going to make over the team and hire someone else who is probably not as well suited for the job as Torre would be. Kind of makes me smile. I really do hope that they promote Bowa.

Totally agree with you. That what I was getting at by bolding somewhat in my statement. I think there is no question he is a great manager. However, being in NY for one and with the Yankees inparticular, things tend to get bigger then they are. Whether it is a good thing or if there is a problem. Those Yankee teams he won with were still the best teams in baseball and they had good pitching. It was right before and during the beginning of the big boom in spending with FA's. I wouldn't say anyone could've managed them to win at least one of those titles, but many could. He did a great job and his stock rose to the top. In recent years though, the blunders he has had with some of the teams and situations they have had makes me question him just a little. So like many stocks, it has to fall. Losing to Boston is a perfect example. You don't lose a series when you're up 3-0. You just don't. Part of that is on the team but part of that is on him. He routinely gets a team of allstars handed over to him now and fails to win. Their talent alone is enough to get them into the playoffs but something else has to be able to bring them to a title. Some of it is inside of the players who need to dig down or it and some of it falls on managing. I understand spending doesn't buy you a great "team" and in their case they seem to lack dominant pitching but I wouldn't go as far to say it's bad (minus Wright and Pavano...Who didnt se that one coming btw). Anyways, if you can't get 200million+ in players to get up for the playoffs then you aren't doing your job. If those players are just assuming they will talk through their opponent because of previous success against a certain ace or dominated them for the season series, then you aren't doing your job. It's those little things that I think an everyday manager would do. I think Torre used to do it but he is now just so laid back that I think it is part of the Yankees failures when it counts. Maybe thats just my thinking but thats how I see it. I totally agree and didn't mean to lead everyone on to thinking he wasn;t a good manager. I think he is a great manager, just not the end all be all of coaching.

Well I don't understand what the problem is if he does want a big contract. Right now we are all sitting back hoping that we throw 35 mil at Arod. I'd like to take my chances with Miggy if it only costs us a few prospects. I don't see Fields best year competing with Cabrera's average year, and there is no age difference. I agree the attitude is cause for concern but thats where these next couple years come in. I think he is under team control til 2009. I may be incorrect. If he is, we will pay him well below his value for those years and if he doesn't look to have righted the ship, we trade him. The numbers he would put up in our park I'd assume would be massive and if we need to move him to DH, that will probably save us from an Arod/Manny contract. One thing is the Marlins will get a lot for him, but not as much as most teams. Simply because everyone knows they can't afford him and/or will not pay him. If he is on a team like ours, who have the funds and just may not be willing to spend it, our threat of keeping him until the right offer hits is serious. Most teams have better prospects seeing as our farm system looks weak, so we will probably get back more then what we dealt if we act early on him. I think we all agree he is one of the best talents offensively in baseball. His defense may be an upgrade over Fields, seeing as I think Fields was dead last in the AL. The Chris Young situation was different, we weren't getting a potential HOF in the deal and Josh Fields has a better shot at winning a Super Bowl then he does becoming a better play than Cabrera.

Yea I saw that. That's terrible. When Wang was coming out they said it was the 15th inning that the starting pitching had gone in the series.

The deal was made in December of 2005. Before there list comes out I think. Usually Baseball America puts it out at the end of February or early March. So as of the day of the deal, Anderson looks to be their higher ranked prospect. I am open to proof showing otherwise. Idk about BP's list and they appear to have hit it dead on with him. Was the 8 ranking for the 05' season though? Either way, it was a dumb move and the more I dig...The more I can't figure out Anderson's promotions. Young had a great year in 05'. K's were high so maybe that was concern. Anderson doesn't appeared to have played in 04' and hardly at all in 05'. I am not sure why but I guess his high draft choice and success at Zona' must have been what carried him. Even his 03' numbers weren;t that great. I remember hearing about Young in 05' and how great of a talent he looked to be. I also heard about how Anderson was in front of him though. When I heard we dealt Young, it made me sick. I can't say I thought he would do this as a rookie, but based off potential and word of mouth, it seemed he was the guy to keep. Where they were ranked and all that is irrelevant because ultimately it comes down to our organization and trhey looked to have been higher on Brian Anderson. All of this is just funny to me because I can see our front office gathered around the top 100 BA list and calling their writers to ask for inside info on the 06' list while trying to make this move.

You're correct that it doesn't void the arbitration and I sort of skimmed that part. I don't want to nitpick and avoid the main point of section/post but if "none of it was correct" then why did he sign a year deal like I said? Clearly that would be just the void part being incorrect, not everything in red. I'm stubborn. I know. Thanks for the help with the contract voiding. I thought it was a much bigger thing with Prior then something that simple. I had it in my head after his contract that they had to buy him out, give him this new one year deal and yada yada to get to where they are now. My bad.

I went on Cot's baseball contract site and it says he did sign a one year contract to avoid arbitration. I don't think it voids next season if he is still entitled to arbitration. So the red section appears to be accurate outside of the voiding of the contract and like I said in that section I don't know how it effects him for 08'. I then went to look through the web for stuff and I saw on yahoo per rotowire they plan to pursue him this offseason. I doubt that would be let out there if it was a plan to trade for him seeing as the Cubs value on him would rise. Who knows though. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Av6X...ype=fantasythat

I don't think we will spend money to fix this problem. Doesn't seem to be JR's way of doing things. He has been unhappy about how much we have spent the last few seasons and the only way I see us increasing payroll dramatically is for Arod. If we do that, we can perhaps still sign a Hunter because I would imagine guys will be dealt to fill other holes and absorb some of the Arod hit. Renteria I think would be a mistake. Especially if it involves giving up Garland. There is a better market for JG then Edgar. He will be 33 and this is his first season of .300ba in 4 years and it isn't because he is "finally healthy" seeing as he missed more time this year then any other year since his rookie season. Everyone knows the Braves are trying to deal him. When teams know we are trying to deal guys, we can't get dick, but we will trade them exactly what they want? I would prefer not. At the end of the day, if there is nothing else going for us then make the deal and hope for the best. I wouldn't mind another season in the dumps. Well, I would, if we don't take advantage of it. With our pathetic scouting and limited resources to plug in, it may be a bad idea. I would hope we use this season and a potential bad one next season to our advantage to play our kids and use our good draft picks to our advantage. The drafting is key and resigning Dye I think was a mistake because we could've used those picks for next season and had an outstanding draft class. We will continue to be in this position if we spend tons of money and finish mediocre. We have been spoiled with an average team the last X amount of seasons and maybe it's time to firesale and reload. There are few moves that realistically we would make and turn us into contenders. You said we should do what the Cubs did but with all that spending they barely won the worst division in baseball. The Giants, Tigers, Mariners, Dodgers and Mets all spend and it doesn't gaurentee success. We don't want to go this route while being in the most competitive division in baseball because it's even less likely to survive. We half-ass spend our money. We will spend just enough but not go for it all and that's not how you do it if you're going to throw money everywhere. Gotta be all or nothing.

I think it is that there doesn't seem like he has a tremendous upside. As of now. I don't see him changing into an OBP machine. He has had success thus far, but not for a leadoff man we would ultimately need him to be. Maybe I am wrong about that, he started to make me somewhat of a believer over his stint in the show. He shows no sign of developing power and his arm is pathetic at best. His fielding seems to be above-average. I haven't looked at the deeper statistics on him but I dont imagine they will be bad/ He is basically a cheaper, younger Scott Podsednik without any mlb proven stuff or reliability. That said, if we build the positions around him then I don't mind giving him a chance. As of right now though, we have so many holes that having him in the lineup is a wash. One other thing I would like to point out. We are all excited about his base stealing abilities but stealing is gradually becoming a lost art in baseball. Meaning it is either overrated in today's game or completely underrated and a gem if you have it. I am unsure which though.

Hmm...If that is true then thanks for the update. I do remember hearing news about him last season and going into this season that he would be available this offseason for teams. During the season I heard less and less so maybe this would be why. The only reason I don't know how accurate that is is because I thought he signed a deal with the Cubs. Maybe it was to just avoid arbitration but usually doesn't a contract void your upcoming arbitration years? If so, it was a one year deal and I don't know about an option for 08'. Also, I thought Prior was called up in like May or June before he had that surgery? Does the 60 day DL not count against you for those things? Anyone know?

I think he is entitled to a bad game. I don't know why there seems to be so much hatred towards him in this thread. I suppose because he gets a ton of press but let's not be so quick to assume he will continue with this type of play.

I think Crisp would be a mistake. I would've liked to have landed Mo Pena and given him a few months but we didn't.

I didn't read everyone's comments but I do agree with those who think he is somewhat overrated. I think dealing with the "Ego's" is overrated. He did win titles when the team wasn't the 200 million payroll machine so he deserves credit for that. His failures when it has been a team of AllStar signings though has been what has brought down his legacy. If he goes. I sure do hope they promote Larry Bowa. He is a nut and I would love to see the antics that happen in NY with him in charge. It could be some of the most entertaining baseball we have seen in years. Also, maybe him being so animated will give this team the life it seems to lack. Torre is always so calm and collected I think it has a negative effect on his ballclub sometimes. Just a little pulse out of him would do wonders for that team on occasion. Especially, with them appearing to be going younger next season you will need that. Leave the reserved types for hitting/pitching coach. Get someone fiery to lead the club.

I don't agree with that statement. Manny is 35 years old (at least) and is aging. This seasons absence was due to the strained muscle and I think moreso the Red Sox wanting him healthy for the playoffs. If the Yanks had tied the Sox, I'd say he would've been back. Even last year's absence was from his hamstring that they thought may have been a tear. He does take little breaks and has for years, and while I in no way support it...he also has put up HOF numbers in the process. If we can have Cabrera for the next 10-12 years and have him put up the same lazy numbers that he has so far through his career (add in our inflation of the ballpark and his maturity) or the lazy numbers Manny has put up, I will most certainly take it and not avoid him. Furthering, Manny is just a goof ball. He is unpredictable and the concerns are his head isn't in the game outside of when he is in the box. Cabrera's knock seems to just be discipline off the field, like keeping his weight down and focusing more on the team instead of being a "cancer". If he brings that attitude here, then I agree that I dont know if he is worth the risk. But as I said, there is something to be noted about his relationship with Ozzie and what Ozzie could do for his mental makeup. Ozzie would do wonders for him because he wouldn't tolerate Miggy's antics.

He has had shoulder problems and his mechanics are flawed. But unless you believe in the conspiracy theories over the years, his main reason for missing time prior to his latest shoulder problem was for fluke injuries. The liner back at him, the collision with Giles at 2nd, etc. And in regards to his shoulder, isn't that what this whole rehab has been about though. Teams should be able to get him fresh and see what time has brought him in the healing department. Changing the mechanics and fixing that shoulder I hope have occured and if not, let our guys get a crack at it. Maybe Coop can work some magic, if he has any left. Also, Several players have come back from injuries to their shoulder or elbow so I would hope he could. Ironically, I remember the first time I ever heard about Prior the story to go with him was how some machine had him having better mechanics and stuff the Maddux. Maddux at the time had the previous high on this "machine". Looking back and having become more knowledgeable, I can't help but to think how gullible i had to have been to have believed it. Regardless, I would take the risk. As someone else mentioned. Everyone thought Dotel was done and he seems to have turned the corner. Gagne has seemed to have recovered from serious injury twice. I wouldn't want to pass on it without giving it a look. It's not like he is Jose Contreras we are giving this look to, the guy at one point had the brightest looking career in the majors.

Thanks for the info so far. As far as I know the cutoff date is like mid-November. I think when the official FA signings can begin. Egbert is a favorite of mine so I would hate to see him go. At the same time, I think his value has gone up over the last couple years and that we could get some value for him.

I am curious about the Rule 5 draft. I just want to know if the Sox can draft and if there are any guys the Sox may be eyeing. Perhaps an OF that can give us a Hamilton break through, or dare I say a pitcher with Johan potential. Or anyone that the Sox might lose in this draft.

Definately. We all like to make jokes or serious opinions about the Cubs. In particular guys like Wood and Prior. In all honesty though, Wood I still think was an overrated strikeout pitcher who had one game that carried his career. Prior just had those fluke injuries. If he is healthy, I think all he needs is a little confidence. What better way to give the man confidence then to have a rival team show belief in him and give him an opportunity to stick it to the organization that gave up on him. I'd say give him a good deal. Overpay a little and have it loaded with incentives and options. At worst, he doesn't pan out and just gives some of our young prospects more time to develop without being bombed in the show. If he pans out and can return to form, then we stole a 15-18 game winner who is still kind of young and not quite in his prime. He wouldn't have the desperation and "savior" pressure he got on the Northside and is still comfortable because he is in a place he has lived the last 6 years. All in all. I would at least try. I do think the Cubs will keep him though (just as they did Wood) but maybe they will want to rid themselves of the memories. And yes witesoxfan, you're right. He signed that 5 or 6 year deal for like 80-90 million. I remember it now.

I vote for neither. I picked Eckstein because I am sick of Juan Uribe...I call Juan "the lizard' because he runs like one. So to those who read this, if you see me refer to "the lizard" on this board...You know who it is. I think there are better ways to waste money. I'd rather take a risk on Caesar Izturis, Nioke or Alexi Ramirez. I'd imagine they'd be cheaper and they have higher upsides.

Definately...the SS market is weak. I had aspirations of Carlos Guillen but he re-signed. One guy who I am unsure about is Michael Young. I thought he was supposed to be a free agent but maybe I was wrong. Or maybe he had an option. Anyone know if he has an option and if they picked it up? As far as OF...I can see the Sox going after cheaper guys like Mike Cameron, Brad Wilkerson, or even Corey Patterson. Which speaking of a former Cub... If the Cubs don't make a play on Prior. Do you think the Sox should??

All that I read seems to be right on. He wasn't our top rated prospect and going from that standpoint Kenny didn't make the wrong move. At the same time, Young was looked at as a potential 30-30 guy the whole time. Prospects are tough to evaluate when they aren't the blue chip kind. Young in hindsight was a mistake to deal, but hindsight is always 20-20. That said. I have always hated Brian Anderson so I was upset to deal Young. Getting Vazquez and my hopes of him becoming the Javy of the Expo days made me forget about Young. It hasn't been perfect but it hasn't been bad. The main problem is still talent evaluation and we can change that. Young isn't coming back, so let's save and fix what we can.

They used to same the same thing about Manny. I think it's just him being uncomfortable. Ozzie is supposedly close to him and was his idol growing up. Maybe a change of scenery, Ozzie's influence and a little more media pressure will wake him up. Let's not forget, he is still a kid.