Chombi

As each day passes, my optimism for this offseason disappears. It's going to be a long one and I am starting to believe that 05' may have been a fluke from the standpoint that our front office has no clue what it's doing.

Ok, our offense was bad for reasons other than power. Unless you mean the lack of power our 3-4-5 showed. Is Fields bat ready? yes... Is he ready? Yes...If the Sox keep Crede should they maybe give Fields a month in AAA to learn LF a little, why not??? I wouldnt say we need his bat. It would help, but we have enough power. What we need is some speed and contact in the lineup. He doesn't have anything to prove but he does have things he can improve on if the Sox chose to send him down. IE his defense, his knowledge of the strike zone, etc. Again, I am just merely trying to make out what KW would be thinking in this move. It doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion on it but I am getting the feeling some of you take it that way.

Yea I understand it is rediculous...My point is lots of teams have their top prospects up, and then start them in AAA the next year. Usually those decisions are made in advance. In Fields case, it may have been. They do the "No matter how well you do, you're going back down for the remainder of the season, or next season, etc." I don't agree with the idea in this case but it is what it is. Obviously Fields had more time to showcase himself w/Crede hurt, but if Joe comes back, what's the harm in giving Fields a month to get going in AAA. Don't get me wrong either...If he is here, I would like him playing. I am just looking at it from an organizational point of view and what KW would possibly be thinking to do it.

I have the same belief brother. I would love to see this team go Florida Marlins on baseball for a couple years. We won't compete anyways so why not. No chance w/ Detroit, Cleveland and Minnesota. Take next year to see what we really have (as of now and what would be acquired) and then hit the FA market and trade market hard. I'd love to have that. 3 years from now I can see the Sox and Royals breaking out. At least it'd be fun. No expectations would make their depressing play easier to stomach. As opposed to having a team who won the WS, 90 games and then nearly put me in the hospital. If we don't make smart moves we will be the team we were earlier in the decade. Top of the division until someone like Minnesota makes a run and leaves us in the dust with another 3rd place .500 ballclub. I hope your Hunter thing is right. Everyone is so hooked on that Texas club because of all the value they put into hometown stuff. IDK, I hope so.

If Joe is healthy I really would love to keep him. That corner is on lockdown with him. The Fields to AAA thing is weird but then again, many teams do that kind of thing. He isn't perfect, maybe a month in AAA to work on a few things would benefit him. If thats not what KW has in mind and it's a misevaluation of talent...then we are in trouble.

Ok again...Look at it from The Sox perspective since everyone just wants to dump Garland for nothing. Hall is not a SS RIGHT NOW. He is the CF of the Milwaukee Brewers. Had he played SS this year, it would make more sense. He didn't. So why pay them in Garland for a SS, when he can be had at a mediocre OF's price. Yea in our plans it'd make sense to move him to SS b4 the Uribe thing. Why show the Brewers our cards though? I mean, that is the point here. The Brewers need quality pitching and we need an OF. We signed Uribe for SS so the transaction would occur as one for an OF. One who has had one season above average in his career. He overall isn't a better SS than Uribe. Outside of OPS, he hit less homers. hit 20 points higher. .230-.250...o what a treat. He isn't a better defender so why acquire him at a SS price when he isn't much better than the one we have. Furthermore, the Brewers desperately need an arm like JG. If Bill Hall couldn't play next season for them, Gwynn or somebody would step in and easily replace him. He is nothing but a mediocre OF. Garland is a 2 starter. When did we become so desperate for mediocrity in our lineup that we have thrown logic out the window? A deal like that, we are in the drivers seat. We have the better player. They didnt play him as a SS so he isn't getting SS value. Think Soriano's troubles of trying to play that card. Or Cano in NY right now unwilling to move to 3rd because his value drops. Well it's no different here. Hall wasn't a SS this year so any team who pays SS price for him is retarded. If we do, we are retarded. And why did you mention his age. Isn't he like 5 months older than JG? Garland is going into the same prime years and not coming off a near career year worst.

Well you left that cut off for the Gio and fields scenario since u didnt put a SS with them... First of all, I understand your point and I don't disagree with it. However, Fields next to Gonzalez isn't much better. Gio hasn't proven anything so I don't feel more comfortable w/him outside of him on a piece of paper at this point. He is viewed as a 2-3 starter but he can end up like Kris Benson (who was supposed to win 100 cy youngs in Peter Gammonds eyes). If things always worked out the way scouts see them, no one would ever be dealt from farm systems. That is the thing I look at. Yea it will hurt to move those guys. However, Gio isn't a Kershaw so he is replaceable. Fields isnt Cabrera. Fields is not in the same league as a hitter. Miggy is a proven superstar. None of our prospects are blue chip guys. If there is a chance to get him, you get him. It's up to the front office to rebuild the farm system after that. A guy like miggy is a rare chance, a guy like Fields...well there is plenty in the same boat that are a lot better then he is (Braun, LaRoche, Stewart, Longoria, Wright, Zimmerman, Miggy, Gordon,)...Miggy and Wright I would say are elite. The rest are studs too. Fields, not so much. And who says Gonzalez has to be the SS or Haeger the starter. I mean, for all we know, none of these guys pan out. Cabrera already has. Thats why you get him. It's up to the front office to rebuild the farm. A farm system can be re-done, landing a HOF is much harder.

Victory tastes good. Now back to the actual thread. Damon for Crede... Anyone know the Yankee's plans if they aren't trading him? What happens w/Giambi or one of their OF's. I'd assume they are looking to deal for Johan or Miggy, but if they don't...Are they really going to play Giambi at 1st and hit Damon/Abreu/Matsui/Melky @ DH?

I am still open to a huge firesale if we don't look improved very soon.

Pitching wins titles. Maybe being in SD they don't show baseball games but that is a pretty well known thing among baseball. Brewers problems stemmed from lack of pitching last season. Garland slides in as a clear #2 in the NL. Garland has experience and an expiring contract. He can easily be resigned w/ the money they'll have free and most likely would be re-signed over Sheets simply because of money. He isn't expensive as it is and with the money they just spent on a guy who had an era over 5 in the NL the previous season...I think they'd pony up the extra 3 mil a year it'd cost for JG. If he isn't, he will be a B talent...If not an A talent since his numbers will most likely increase in a weak division w/pitchers hitting. Bill Hall is one less homer, hit, etc. shy of not even being a B talent. Since that all has been uselss to you because all you Bismark fans care about is a contract for a middle of the pack CF...I'll break it down in 5th grade terms or your senior year. Above average AL pitcher > above average hitter > Bill Hall (mediocre NL hitter) AL > NL AL pitcher to NL > NL hitter to AL Performance, ability, potential > meaningless contract Garland > Hall Any questions?

The thing about that is that was the tribune. I think everyone on here has expected more to be in the deal. I wouldve done that deal w/o consideration at all. It also reflects how poor everyone else views our prospects. Gio = a 3 starter yet we view him as an Ace or something. All the more reason to make a deal like this. If our farm system is truly this weak then why would it hurt in the long run to dump a bunch of 3 starters and a 3rd baseman like Fields? DLS, Gio, Fields, and...

I saw that but I find it hard to believe they want to play the Giambino at 1st for a whole season. Unless they plan on moving Abreu, Damon, or Matsui idk. They have 4 OF. Giambi to me is a DH but if they are all for having him at 1st and Damon I guess DH'ing then go for it.

I hope Richar isn't the front runner for starting 2b unless it's in AAA. I didn't mind acquiring him because my understanding was we were looking at him as a backup/utility guy. His hot streak in AAA apparently has earned him the starting nod which makes me sick to my stomach. Go get Iguchi back if there is truly nothing else. I don't mind Tad. I'd hate to say put the old team back together but it's better than Danny Richar.

Yea but I am happy with the Yankees doing that...Maybe boston will follow suit and others as well. Drive his price down a little. Texas got a pretty gamn good deal for Texeira which is what scares me with this deal. At the same time, the braves, considered the wisest team in baseball made the move even though they gave up 3 of their top prospects to do it. KW should follow suit.

Yea...the deal was from last year. I guess I should've made it more clear. In my headline I put "I doubt it". I find it hard to believe Kenny isn't interested in a deal for him. In that Cabrera article in the other section he says "we have guys on our target list, some have been on it for years" or something to that tune. Tejeda we all assume is one of those guys and I doubt that he'd pass on an opportunity to go at him again. For last years deal, obviously not. They want more and definately don't want Jose. We probably wouldn't give them Gio. But for him to say that they have "no interest" is doubtful to me. If they came to us with the "right deal" (as kenny said), we'd have interest.. Sorry I didnt make it more clear...I was eating lunch as I did it.

Hmm...I hope it wasn't Everett b/c then we can have fun with this for a few pages. With Uribe signed, this is over with otherwise. I wouldn't mind Patton and Sapp at all. I was anti-astros deal last year if it didnt have Patton in it so if his value is lower this year, then I am for it. With Towles around maybe Sapp is expendable early but I doubt it. I can see this deal honestly happening if we went the Astros route....Garland for Qualls, Patton or Paulino, and a Sapp. A reliever which KW is creaming his pants on a daily basis for. A good young arm. A top-notch catching prospect.

Gio and Broadway? Wow. I figured Broadway had minimal value in a deal like this. If we can keep one of Gio or DLS, I am all for it. Fields I'd assume would be in the deal but...I bet they'd take a risk on Crede if we wouldn't budged on Fields. Assuming Fields is who they covet. Something tells me they will want something different. If not, give them Fields and deal Crede elsewhere. If you can land Miggy by giving up 3 prospects. You do it. You can replace one, if not two, via a Garland deal. Better yet, a Konerko deal since his bat has been replaced with a better one. If I were Kenny and this is truly on the table. I'd act now. I'd fire away with those 3 kids. Once you have Miggy, you hold the chips. If you want to deal Garland, you can. Paulie, you can. Hell, if you want to turn around and package Miggy to the teams who miss out on Santana...You can.

This is per mlbtr.com but they got it through the Baltimore sun. Didnt see it posted. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basebal...0,7074657.story Idk how high I am on the idea of trading Gio just to force a team to take Contreras. IDK. I can't say I would've been totally thrilled with this deal. Part of me even thinks it's not done yet. I can see Baltimore coming back when they have nothing else brewing.

Yea it is going nowhere. Both too stubborn I guess. You won't give up the useless contract part, and I won't give up the factual evidence and logic end of it. And don't say WS has been the argument the entire time. You were about contract. You have steered away from performance b/c Halls was pathetic, while Garlands was above average (excluding wins itself) especially in the NL. It's no secret his numbers will look better going to the NL. Not to mention, the weakest division in the NL. If he doesn't, even minor regression is still worth more in total WS. A team who wants to keep a guy for 36 wins over 3 years I have no problem with. It's when they have an opportunity to deal him for a better player, inparticular a pitcher, that I laugh at. They just cut Jenkins loose so clearly 12 win shares isn't that important to them. That means it's replaceable. Very easily replaceable in fact. But since Hall is under contract, that means we should keep mediocrity around and not make our team better. I can already see you as the Brewers GM... "Why make our team better? Why trade for a pitcher who will give us one year of better baseball? Why? God forbid he won't resign with us since it's such a lock he will leave for FA. I mean odds are more slim with re-signing Sheets next offseason, his contract will be huge. It'll also free up some money for JG if we want to keep him though...Jeez, those first round picks Garland would give us sure would suck in comparison to keeping Bill Hall for 3 years and watching him leave us and we get nothing for him...But we have him for 3 years of bad CF and a .250 BA or .315 OBP. Yay! Yay! Yay!" Hall is not more valuable then Garland. Never Never never. I'll take a starting pitcher who gives 200 innings a year, never hurt, w/playoff and big game experience and above average numbers. If he wants to re-sign, great. If not, so be it...we'll take the 1st round picks and go sign another 12 win shares a year outfielder. It's done. You're done, I am done. Clearly you have no interest in evidence and clearly don't follow enough baseball to know that SP is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more valuable today then hitting.

Yea..I love them though. As much as I hate how they do business, it has been remarkable how successful they have been. I mean, if they get in the playoffs...they win it. Kind of fun. At the same time, it gets rediculous in some cases. The Red Sox got Beckett because they took on Lowells seemingly bad contract. If Hanley would've flopped, it'd be bad. Even now the deal is lopsided. As long as they don't lock themselves into dealing with the Yankees or Boston then I am ok with what they do. I wouldnt mind seeing them relocate but not contracted. I'd contract the Nationals before I contract them.

I agree with you Rockren. He is still immature. Nothing in Florida offers you the discipline you need. They honestly don't care about baseball. They are just a minor league all-star team that competes until those guys are MLB stars. Once they are, they go sign the pieces to the puzzle and win. Then they dismantle and do it again. It's a shame but Miggy is that good where he doesn';t need to be 100% in it. They don't force him to be. As I said, a city like Chicago will have the media on his ass (not as much as NY or LA), he will have Ozzie all over him, our veterans will let him know their displeasure and he will even have our front office more proactive. All of these things will make this kid wake up and play to his potential (god that is a scary thought). I have given it more thought and I think Cabrera's value is high but not as high as I once thought. I could be wrong, but the fact that many teams are occupied with Santana on the trade front combine with their recent lack of willingness to trade young arms...Maybe we will get him for less. I still don't think we have anywhere near the talent level other teams can offer but they all seemed focused on Johan, Kazmir, Bedard or Sabathia. I'd do just about any deal that involved two of our top 5 prospects. Maybe 3. and then give them Brian Anderson for our mid-level prospect please.

The more I think about it and the more I look at our "real" options, the more I become ok with Uribe's option being picked up. I don't want anyone else thats in the FA market. I don't want to make a deal for Furcal or Greene unless it costs us nothing. The only positive I see about Uribe going is that I believe he is a B player so if we replace him with someone else equally as bad, we will get some compensation picks. How Uribe ended up in the top 20% for 3rd, 2nd, and SS is beyond me, but I am ok with it.

Also, we are making too much out of his weight. At worst, he goes to 1st base. It's not like he is Cecil Fielder. He isn't David Wells balloon size or even a young talented Prince Fielder. I dont hear The Brew complaining? All that said, Ozzie would seriously do this guy a lot I think. I have a feeling With all eyes on Johan on the trade front, and all eyes on Arod for FA, that we may be able to snag him if we give a great early offer. I can see Ozzie lobbying like crazy to make him a priority now and years to come.

My buddy informed me that they had an espn journalist at their newspaper today as a speaker. It's kind of funny. There isn't any proof to this as I just found it out tonight. He said Miggy has been eating some crazy unhealthy dish and that he has been told to give it up by like the team doctors or something. "I guess he is absolutely addicted to this traditional Venezuelan dish....it's like a sandwhich only insted of bread it has cornmeal and then the whole thing is deepfried" Sounds like a plan for a heart attack to me. If that ESPN writer is accurate, at least we know what to take away from him.

3 years is better than 1 if the guy is worth it. In the Contreras case yes, in Garlands no. Jose was a stretch but my point I made is truthful. Teams love expiring contracts and they love it when they can get twice the value (money free and compensation). Contreras and Garland hold more value then we think. Garland leaving and freeing up money while getting you picks is more valuable then keeping a mediocre Bill Hall who is doing nothing but blocking LaPorta, Gwynn, etc. The Hall contract has started off as a bad one. So those 3 years are basically in question in Mil eyes. You keep presenting Hall as though he is a stud with one bad year. He is a mediocre player with one good one. A mediocre SP is worth more then a mediocre OF. Bill Hall won't be retained thats why you care if he is a type A player. If you can land Garland, without giving up much you'd do it. Bill Hall isn't much. He is the least cared about player on that offense excluding Mench. The reason what type player they are is huge. If Milwaukee can keep loading up on prospects they'll do it. Type A, type B, whatever. Hall is hardly a B. He will get them nothing if they don't deal him. I am sorry but comparing him to AJ is useless....They arent based on the same system. AJ actually had a down year, while Hall's is appearing to be on his normal end. You're only using OPS for some reason in that comparison too...Why not compare errors to with Paulie? It's like comparing him to Uribe, who everyone wants gone. Just doesn't make sense. I understand you desperately want an OF. Bill Hall isn't our answer and regardless of how much you disagree, the facts don't lie. Garland's value as an NL player is much greater then Bill Halls NL value, let alone his AL value. Even if Hall returns to your yahoo fantasy baseball elite level that you are hoping, I still wouldn't have made this move. The Brewers get a no.2 NL starter and we get a mediocre at best CF. Garland is worth 13 win shares which is his lowest the last 3 years. 13 win shares while playing 32 games? Sabathia led the league with like 23 win shares....Hall is worth 12, while the best OF had 36 (maggs), Arod had 39 and the best cf had 33 (sizemore). So we want a guy with essentially a 3rd of the WS the best CF does as opposed to a pitcher who had over half of the best SP had? If you'd like to keep disagreeing go ahead. We all have our opinions and I respect yours. I just don't agree with it and would like to try and get you onto my side. If I can't so be it. Unfortunately, I like a little more analytical process in my way of viewing things. A fluke season got Hall a long-term deal, if they Brew could take it back...I bet they would. Garland would give them that chance and a lot more. I am sure there are other numbers that would warrant Hall being a better player but I haven't seen them or heard of them. For Mil its a great deal for so many reasons both statistically and theoretically. If they care that much about his contract or how he did well in comparison to an AL central Catcher then I'd say you're right. Something tells me though they use a little more than that.