Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 07:08 PM) Again, the ability to either reach base or drive someone is much, much more important than the ability to steal a base. He is simply not a good offensive player. Having a balanced lineup capable of winning in as many different ways as possible much, much more important than building a team strictly according to OPS. I'm done arguing this for now. The stolen base gods are pleased by my incredible performance and curse all of you who deny the talents of Willy Taveras. For those of you who still refuse to understand the importance of a dynamic lineup, and the improbability of acquiring a better lead-off hitter without dealing the farm, I leave you with one last question: are you as prepared to defend Brian Anderson as you are to ignorantly brush off Willy Taveras? And are you ready, should the great Brian Anderson fail, to defend the indefensible Jerry Owens? That is all (for now) and may God have mercy on you assholes.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:56 PM) He also doesn't hit XBH hits like good big league hitters, or even below average major league hitters. Good big league power hitters and below average power hitters - because you're talking about SLG% not batting average - do not have the elite speed and base stealing ability of Taveras. Therefore while the are more dangerous at the plate as far as the XBH goes, they are less dangerous in terms of scoring should they get on.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:51 PM) Plus, Taveras doesn't have quite as many miles on his tires. He spent so long in the minors, and he really wore down his body and his legs stealing bases, because that was the only way he could prove to the Mariners and then Brewers he belonged in the big leagues. Not to mention Paulie had the rib cage pull/tear and hurt his knee down the stretch. When he was closer to 100% in the final 6 weeks, he was back to the normal Konerko we've come to suspect. True, and Willy is a far more talented player than Pods, who we got for his Age 29-31 seasons.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:47 PM) 1. Yes, but some are more equal than others. That's academic. 2. So what if he and Thome have the same LD%? That proves nothing. Thome's LD% doesn't prove anything aside from that fact that Taveras does hit line drives himself just like some other good big league hitters, he's not like a slap hitter only like Gathright or something. His problems come when he hits the ball in the air.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:44 PM) Not only that, but one tweak of the groin sends Taveras from a modestly acceptable player to nothing. We saw what being bothered by a leg injury did to Podsednik in 2006. Taveras is only effective at 100%. Over an 162 game season, even more with playoffs, that is quite the risk. Having 100% of your effectiveness based on your legs is a recipe for disaster. That's true for anyone though. We saw what a hand/thumb injury did to Paulie last year. All it takes is something small for anyone, but Taveras doesn't have the injury history that Pods does. He'll be 28 next year so he's still young enough that we'd get him in his groin's prime.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:06 PM) Your statement that AJ plays defense "well" ruins any shred of credibility you still had. 1. Not all tools are equal, that statement is f***ing amazingly ignorant. 2. Not really sure what you're getting at with this contact argument. Sure, Willy makes good contact, but he doesn't walk or make good contact, as evidenced by his horrendous XBH totals. AJ's defense behind the plate is more than throwing out baserunners at a poor rate. He's great at preventing WP and passed balls which then expands the strikezone for his pitchers. 1. All tools can be equally effective to a team. It's a team game. When there is no one on base and you need a run against a good pitcher for example, it's much easier to score in a bunt hit, stolen base, sacrifice situation then it is to hit a home run. 2. He doesn't have power, so his flyballs are pretty much all pop ups and s***, but he still hits line drives. His LD% has been pretty much equal to Thome's over the last four years. Power in contact is not the same as contact. He puts the ball in play.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 06:11 PM) What are you talking about? COL averaged 33,127 fans in 2008. CHW averaged 30,877 fans in 2008. And when Willy played in HOU in 2005 and 2006 the average attendance was 34,000+ and 37,000+ respectively. I guess we really don't want Willy now because he'd be playing in front of even fewer people. Ok so fine. But the Colorado fans didn't care. They threw s*** at him and called him names and when he stole bases they tried to charge the field. Something in Colorado f***ed his head up.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:43 PM) Seriously, why do you have to be such a douche about the fact that everyone thinks (read: knows) Taveras is a below average ballplayer? And no, nobody believes SLG and OBP are equal; if they do, they shouldn't be commenting, as anyone with half a brain knows OBP trumps SLG by quite a bit. Problem is, your boy Taveras offers neither OBP nor SLG skills. Also, the "hater" in me will note that the guys posted above are actually good at other facets of the game or are extremely young. Why do you have to be such a turd sandwich then? That is your opinion that OBP trumps SLG%. I'd say it does in certain positions in the order, like say Mike Jacobs can fit his power and very low OBP in the #6 slot of a team much better than a guy who gets on and doesn't have power could. For lead-off OBP does trump SLG which makes it stupid that I keep seeing comments about SLG% and OPS regarding a lead-off spot. You do not need to hit home runs if you lead off, and you don't need a whole lot of triples or doubles if you can steal efficiently. I don't know how you can say Willy offers no OBP skills. He makes contact, he does walk some, and his speed allows him to hit for a higher average than most players because he can put down bunts and beat them out. His average strongly affects his OBP and if he hits .320, which he did in '07 and can do again, he'll get on at a .360-.370 clip. It is a lot easier for a player like him to hit .310-.320 because he can put bunts down when the IF are playing back, or hit the ball past him when they come in and give up range.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:46 PM) Says the guy who actually created a thread saying Taveras needs loud fans in order to be a successful player. Unreal. So you think there's no mental aspect of baseball then or what? The thread I made showed that statistically he has become absolutely horrible deep in the count, specifically on 3-2 when he should feel like he has control of the situation. His poor numbers there indicate something mental. Being in a winning environment where tons of fans cheer his strengths is probably going to be better for him that 25 people in the crowd or whatever in Colorado who don't about anything he does because the team is garbage. He needs to take his mind off the numbers he's playing for in Colorado and just react naturally like he did when he came up as a rookie. If he does that, the numbers say he'll be a very good player, because every other part of his game has actually improved.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:41 PM) Way to play the strawman. Speed is an asset if you do something else remotely well. Taveras hits a bunch of singles -- fantastic, that's great. He doesn't take walks, he doesn't hit for power, he doesn't get on base a great amount of the time. You can't steal first base. This first comment is moronic. Speed is an asset if....? Speed is an asset in itself. Every single tool is an asset in itself. You don't need high average or high walk totals or big power in order to run fast. That is ridiculous. As long as you can play defense and help your team in the field, then the speed you offer on the offensive side of the baseball is an asset in itself. Besides, power is dependent on contact. OBP is dependent upon contact. Contact is the most important plate skill despite what you may think, and Willy makes contact. That actually increases his usefulness as a speed player, even though his speed is not entirely dependent upon contact because he can put down a bunt. Look at our roster. AJ plays a premium position and his asset is contact. That's all he does really well besides defense. Fields' asset is power, and right now that is all he does well. Thome has two assets offensively - eye and power - and can't play the field. Uribe, who we started for years, has zero assets aside from defense because his power actually depends on his contact rate which was abysmal. The point is no one tool trumps the other. It is about fit and that's it. Willy plays defense and offers more than anyone we have and anyone we had last year, because he can actually play CF.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:40 PM) Nobody thinks those guys are prominent hitters at this point in their careers (sans Crawford). I have no idea what stretch of a point you are trying to concoct. They're not the greatest players on their teams or the greatest lead-off hitters, but they did lead off a lot for their teams.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:30 PM) BTW- the OBP of some other prominent leadoff hitters this past season Ellsbury- .336 Pierre- .327 Carlos Gomez- .296 Crawford .319 Gaithright .311 O Cabrera- .334 Chris Young .315 Adam Jones .311 Now I obviously was picking and choosing with that list but there's some big names on that list that haven't done much more than WT. The haters will counter that some of those guys either hit of power or have power potential. The haters seem to think that SLG% and OBP are more or less equal, which is why they parrot that OPS stat for everything, and as long as a player either slugs or gets on base at a high rate he's an acceptable lead-off man. Completely ignore speed and the way it affects a ballgame because real baseball games that count in the standings are not played on the field, they're actually simulated in Baseball Prospectus' offices.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) Has everyone forgotten how effective Pods was at disrupting opposing pitchers when he was on base? They spent more time checking him at first base than they did worrying about who was in the batter's box, and considering how dangerous this team will be 3-6 next year if we had a player who was dangerous on the basepaths that would be great for us. I don't give a damn that Taveras doesn't hit for high OPS or slugging, that's not what he does or needs to do. A single for him is just about the same as a double from almost anyone else on the current team because he's such a good base stealer except for one important fact, he can an will score from second on just about any single to the outfield. Finally- for all those who say he's crap. PLEASE TELL ME,,, WHO ELSE WILL WE BAT LEADOFF AND PLAY CF???? Please give me a name of someone else who we can get on the cheap and has at least a relatively proven track record. Taveras is worthless. We shouldn't trade a bag of balls for him, no, we should trade Fields, Getz, and Poreda for Roberts instead. That way we can spend a bunch of money on a 3B and deplete the farm in the process. Great idea. You're basically comparing Anderson's value to us to Taveras' value to us, and Taveras has accomplished much more in his career than Anderson may ever will, and he also fits a need. Who else should we get? I dunno, but someone with great OPS. Speed is only okay unless a player has to rely on it, because if a player has rely on his speed that that player is garbage. Speed is not a real baseball tool, it's nothing but smoke and mirrors, and it does not affect a baseball game in any way. Only OPS do.

QUOTE (Felix @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) I simply don't understand why everyone is so fascinated with the bunt. It's a bad play designed to give outs to the opposing team. Isn't the point of offense to not get out? It's even worse and more idiotic when you're doing it in front of a 3/4/5/6 that hits nearly 130 home runs per year. With the power that this team has, and will continue to have since the majority of the middle of the order will be back, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest the team should get a leadoff man that doesn't get on-base and bunts as much as Taveras (or someone similar) does. Some of the responses in these threads are so beyond idiotic, and this is clearly another one. Bunting is a bad play? The worst Taveras has ever hit after dropping a bunt in his career is .491. He hit over .700 one year while dropping bunts. His sacrifice bunt totals are way down compared to his bunt hit totals, so that means he's very, very good at getting on first base when he decides to run. Bunt you don't like that? Why? What is the difference between getting on via a walk and getting on via a bunt? Here's the difference: bunts are something the hitter can control, a good bunter is much more likely to get a bunt down and reach first base, whereas to draw a walk you have to count on a pitcher throwing 4 balls out of the strike zone. A good bunter only needs one pitch in the strike zone to get on. Did bunts kill your dog or something? Why don't you like them? Somehow people seem to think that a .330-.340 OBP guy, who gets on 182-187 times in a 550 PA season, distracts the pitcher and can easily put himself in scoring position via the SB, is SOOOO much worse than a .350-.360 OBP guy who gets on 193-198 times over a 550 PA season and just stands there doing nothing to put himself in scoring position. In order to understand the value of a stolen base, you have to actually watch the damn games. I don't know how anyone could've actually watched us in 2005 and come away thinking stolen bases and bunts are practically worthless, but I guess it happened. Teams need to be able to manufacture runs because you can't always take walks and hit home runs.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 08:25 AM) It would be like the sox trying to change Alexei, who sees few pitches during an AB. You take away the natural aggressiveness of a guy who hits early in the count, and then when he falls behind, he's toast because he's got too much thinking going on. Taveras can get on base better than Alexei, with the bunts and will take more walks [though that's not saying a lot]. One of the things Ozzie and Co. do best is to simplify things for guys, talk to players in straight forward, crystal clear terms. Give a guy like Taveras clear expectations [be aggressive at the plate and on the bases, and bunt a lot], and then sit back and let his talent take over. Focus on what he does well, rather than tyring to overcorrect what he does wrong. You can make minor adjustments to a major league hitter instead of wholesale changes such as making an aggressive hitter become an On base machine. Egg-zaktly.

LMAO

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 08:01 AM) Good work. You do have too much time on your hands. I did read reports about Hurdle and staff trying to change Taveras' hitting approach. Trying to make Taveras be more patient seems like trying to change Alexei. You take away his aggressiveness, and you make a guy lose confidence and have him thinking at the plate too much instead of letting his natural abilities take over. And esp. last year with benching Willy early in the year. Throw in a young Latino who moved from a diverse Houston to a lily white Denver and the cultural changes/ adjustments of the trade may come into play as well. He should be far more comfortable with the sox clubhouse and the diversity of the city of Chicago. I remember watching Taveras in the 2005 World Series. Here was a guy who showed 5 tools during that series and was an exciting player. He's not that far removed from that success. For the cost of acquiring him [which should not be much, a bullpen arm that really won't help the sox in 2009] the possible reward far outweighs the risks involved. I decided that staying up and trying to figure out why Willy Taveras was bad last year was more important than sleeping. Don't need it anyway. The surprising thing about the numbers though is that when you look at he often he ends an AB in 1-2 pitches, or 3 pitches, or 4+ pitches it all comes out very, very close and is perfectly in line with his career. The guy wasn't any less aggressive early in the count last year, he just was late in the count, which was a continuation of a slide that began in his second year. So whatever Hurdle and those guys told him, you can see that it only affected him with 2 strikes, and it hit him really, really hard in full counts. I think he was going up to the plate ready to swing, but when he ended up getting 3 balls he completely changed his mindset, probably because of what Hurdle or whoever their hitting coach had said. His AVG w/ a full count completely fell off the planet, and he had a lot of AB with a full count last year. If he lifts that, given that he improved every other bit of his game, he would have had a career year or close to it last year. God damn, I feel like I'm like a Willy Taveras expert now. WTF?

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 07:43 AM) When Ozzie "called out" Javy about not being a big game pitcher [i forget which game it was late in the year], and Javy responded by being too cautious, and trying to be too fine with his pitches instead of attacking hitters, he probably wrote his ticket out of here. His starts after that were all the same--he wasn't being aggressive. That's been Javy's MO all his career. The sox gave him every opportunity to turn it around. But if it's not in his makeup by now, it probably isn't going to happen. When a guy has the pure "stuff Vazquez has, and can't step up when his team needs him for a big game, and he has an ERA in the mid 4's, it's time to move on. The sox have [or should have] consistent guys in Buehrle, Danks, and Floyd who can give the team 6 innings and give the team a chance to win even when they are struggling. Javy can do that for the most part, especially vs. weaker teams. But he's been MIA in games when it's mattered. The sox should expect more from a guy with Javy's arm and salary, and be able to come up big like Danks did vs the Twins in the 1-game playoff. That said, Javy has very good value for teams out there needing someone to give a staff innings and a decent ERA. After 2007 I never thought I'd ever say Gavin Floyd is more of a big game pitcher than Javy, but I guess that's how it's going to turn out. Gavin flashed his ballsack all over the place last year and really showed some emotion, plus he went out there with nothing a few times and still found a way to come out with the W or else keep the team in the game. He didn't get it done against Tampa, but it was a long year and he couldn't find his breaker. And we all know about the enormous girth of Danks' and Buehrle's respective nutsacs. So yeah, see ya later Javy.

OKay so I just realized how long this is. If it doesn't make sense just let me know. Basically, the numbers say the guy doesn't suck. The numbers say he's probably having some mental issues late in AB's that have caused his batting average to drop and his OBP which is tied strongly to his batting average to drop as well. All he needs is to get whatever it is he's thinking about out of his head and become aggressive. He was obviously seeing the ball last year or else he wouldn't have been able to still hit at a very good clip in about 60% of his AB's last year which were early in the count.

I would have posted this in the other Willy Taveras thread but it's about real analysis, not trade rumors or bulls*** about whose OPS is better, so I started a new thread. Sorry if that pisses anyone off.

Okay, so I have nothing better to do than look over some statistics to figure out what went wrong with Willy Taveras last year and why he was so bad. PS all the stats here were found at Baseball Reference, and whatever stats aren't there are stats I made by using Baseball References numbers, just so no one thinks I just pulled this out of my ass. Here goes... Last year Willy Taveras either did the following things right or he did them better than he'd ever done before in the Majors: 1. Sacrifices: Willy had 18 in '08, previous career high 13 2. SB total: 68 was career high, previous career high of 34 3. SB%: 90% success rate was career high, previous best was 78% success rate 4. BB total: 36 was career high, previous high 34 5. BB rate: Career high in '08. If you take (PA - SH - SF - HBP) / BB to see his actual walk rate you get these numbers: 14.3 PA/BB in '08, 18.7 PA/BB in '07, 16.6 PA/BB in '06, 24.6 PA/BB in '05. 2008 was his career best walk rate. 6. K Rate: 2nd best of MLB career. If you take AB / K to look at his strikeout rate, you get: 6.1 AB/K in '08, 6.8 AB/K in '07, 6.0 AB/K in '06, 5.7 AB/K in '05. 7. Bunt hit total: 22 in '08 and .500 AVG on bunts ranks low for him, but still impressive. '07: 37 bunt hits, .712 AVG; '06: 21 bunt hits, .553 AVG; '05 28 bunt hits, .491 AVG So what happened to Willy last year? His batting average obviously weighed him down, but why? Willy is an aggressive hitter, and he statistically resolves the PA by the third pitch. At first I thought his struggles might have been the result of a hitting coach telling him to be more patient and work the count deeper, but that wasn't the case. Here are the numbers: Willy's numbers when the PA is resolved after 1 or 2 pitches: 2005: 216 PA (34% of total PA), 206 AB, 69 H, .335 AVG 2006: 169 PA (29% of total PA), 156 AB, 50 H, .321 AVG 2007: 144 PA (35% of total PA), 134 AB, 57 H, .425 AVG 2008: 181 PA (34% of total PA), 175 AB, 56 H, .320 AVG Career: 33% of PA resolved after 1 or 2 pitches, .346 AVG Willy's numbers when the PA is resolved after 3 pitches: 2005: 264 PA (42% of total PA), 252 AB, 65 H, .258 AVG 2006: 217 PA (37% of total PA), 205 AB, 61 H, .298 AVG 2007: 162 PA (40% of total PA), 155 AB, 49 H, .316 AVG 2008: 216 PA (40% of total PA), 193 AB, 50 H, .260 AVG Career: 40% of PA resolved after 3 pitches, .280 AVG Willy's numbers when the PA is resolved after 4+ pitches: 2005: 155 PA (24% of total PA), 134 AB, 38 H, .283 AVG 2006: 201 PA (34% of total PA), 168 AB, 36 H, .214 AVG 2007: 102 PA (25% of total PA), 83 AB, 13 H, .157 AVG 2008: 141 PA (26% of total PA), 111 AB, 14 H, .126 AVG Career: 27% of PA resolved after 4+ pitches, .204 AVG The most obvious conclusions are that: 1) Willy does a lot better hitting early because he will get bunt hits early 2) The numbers deep in the count are obviously going to be much, much smaller because he has two strikes on him 3) The count is a factor in deeper AB's because there is a huge difference between being down 1-2 and being up 2-1 This is all true, but the 3rd part about the count, Willy doesn't seem to be all that good much of the time when he is deep in the count, even when the count is in his favor: 2008: went 0-for-7 after up 3-0; went 18-for-64 (.265) after up 2-1; went 2-for-20 (.100) after up 3-1 2007: 1-for-4 after up 3-0; 12-for-55 (.218) after up 2-1; 3-for-14 (.214) after up 3-1 2006: 1-for-4 after up 3-0; 24-for-99 (.242) after up 2-1 2005: 0-for-3 after up 3-0; 20-for-78 (.256) after up 2-1 Admittedly I'm picking the unfavorable numbers here, but it looks like Willy seems to lose a bit of confidence as the count gets deeper. If you look at the numbers above organized by amount of pitches per plate appearance, you see a precipitous drop-off in batting average in plate appearances where he sees 4 or more pitches. It starts in 2005 and just falls like a rock all the way to this year. There's supporting evidence for that BA after 4+ pitches drop too. Look specifically at the following counts over his career: AVG on 1-2 Count: .194 in '05 (98 AB); .191 in '06 (68 AB); .176 in '07 (51 AB); .162 in '08 (74 AB) AVG on 2-1 Count: .318 in '05 (22 AB); .417 in '06 (24 AB); .294 in '07 (17 AB); .321 in '08 (28 AB) AVG on 3-0 Count: .000 in '05 (4 AB); .000 in '06 (5 AB); .000 in '07 (2 AB); .000 in '08 (8 AB) AVG on 3-1 Count: .364 in '05 (11 AB); .308 in '06 (13 AB); .286 in '07 (7 AB); .200 in '08 (5 AB) AVG on 3-2 Count: .286 in '05 (35 AB); .203 in '06 (64 AB); .212 in '07 (33 AB); .096 in '08 (52 AB) Batting average on a 1-2 count drops steadily. 2-1 remains consistently good and 3-0 consistently bad. 3-1 batting average is falling, but the decline in 3-2 count batting average is scary as hell. THIS is where Willy's problem is. Over his 4 year career, and I'm not counting a cup of coffee in 2004, Taveras will take 27% of his AB to the 4 pitch mark or beyond and end up with a .204 average overall batting average in those AB. Had Willy equaled his career line of .204 in AB past the 3 pitch mark he would have had 9 more hits raising his AVG from .251 to .269 and raised his OBP from .308 to .325. Now here's my thinking. Willy came up in his first full season of '05 and played relaxed the whole year and that is why his numbers deep in the count, most specifically in the 1-2 and 3-2 counts are so good. He was not thinking about getting on base and fulfilling expectations of a lead-off man, he was just watching the ball and reacting. I cannot believe that the level of pitching in the National League improved so much to cause this, because if it did his other numbers would be affected, which they have not been. Somehow after '05 the pressure on him mounted and he probably ended up overthinking at the plate. When he went to Colorado, maybe somebody told him to walk more or something, or he felt that he needed to. If there was a stat about called third strikes on 3-2 counts it could be very telling in regards to Taveras. All Willy needs to be a better player is a manager that will 1) encourage early and often bunting, especially on the slower grass at the Cell that will make it harder on the 3B to come in and will force the catcher to make a throw behind the runner more often, 2) a hitting coach who will take pressure off of him and basically do nothing at all except tell him to NOT worry about the walk and instead be aggressive, especially on 3-2, and 3) a winning environment in front of loud fans who will cheer him for every stolen base or bunt hit and boost his confidence, allowing him to focus on his best skills and forget about whatever it is that is causing him to lose confidence late in his at-bats. So in all, TRADE FOR WILLY TAVERAS!!! He's a great buy-low candidate and all he needs is a confidence boost, which I strongly believe he'll get in Chicago. Don't wait around, he could end up our next Podsednik, except this one can actually play CF. Oh, and get Maicer Izturis to play 2B too if he's available. He'd be a great second baseman, 2-hole hitter, and complement to Taveras until Beckham arrives. Then he can be a UT guy.

QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 11:52 PM) Who gives a s***, you cant just pluck a .380 OBP to leadoff and get on base at a ridiculous rate out of nowhere or we would have done it by now.. If he hits .280+ and steals 60-70 bases (and possibly more) and plays good defense that's more than enough in my opinion to make up for a .330 OBP Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Or, hes been in the league for 4 seasons and both teams hes played for have reached the World Series with him leading off Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 12:03 AM) Thats not the ONLY reason we acquired him, yes we dumped salary but we also wanted his speed at the top of the lineup.. And big deal if Uribe out OPS's him last season.. Uribe struck out 15 times less than Taveres with 155 fewer at bats, Taveres also stole 67 more bases than Uribe.. They aren't the same type of player, so whats the point of saying Uribe can out slug Taveras.. so what, we have more than enough of that on this team anyways.. how about someone who can steal a base? Or score from 1st on a double, hell how about score from SECOND.. This team is station to station, and its sickening to watch sometimes.. and on top of that, the word is all it would take is Lance Broadway or Boone Logan.. Whether thats true or not, gimme a break that's all day Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 12:13 AM) Thats not my reason that we need to get him, but he brought up an "interesting fact" so I also tossed a fact out there as well.. pretty sure I have explained my pro wily stance already in here Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 12:57 AM) Pfft, if he was a pitcher maybe ide agree with you.. but speed is speed no matter what league you are in An infield single in the NL is gonna be an infield single in the AL.. the bases are still 90 feet, hes not gonna get slower coming over here Staying in a hitters park like ours playing with much better people around him, there's no doubt in my mind he would have a good season with us.. and like I already said, whether it be leading off or batting 9th Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:11 AM) The last 3 seasons (2006-2008) for Wily T... Pre All-Star: .273 avg .324 OBP 72 SB 17 CS Post All-Star: .290 avg .349 OBP 62 SB 8 CS U.S. Cellular Field: 21 ABs .333 AVG .414 OBP 9 SB 0 CS Point is, if we could acquire him for pretty much a give away I see no reason why anyone could be against this move.. If we trade for someone better, great.. If we sign Furcal, sweet.. but if none of that happens and we do get Taveras I dont see why people are against it Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:20 AM) Man some of you need to learn how to understand better I guess I need to make myself clear once again, I did not say Wily Taveras means you go to the World Series.. It was just a fact, like the one that was posted BEFORE I posted that jesus Agree. QUOTE (Shadows @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 01:38 AM) Why does this matter Agree. Good job Shadows. You win the prestigious Internet Award for Defending Willy Taveras. I've defended him at length before as well, but sometimes people just don't understand. He's better than anything we have - unless Anderson breaks out which is just about impossible considering the Sox hesitation to play him regularly - and as far as a lead-off man, he's not ideal, but we're NOT GOING TO GET an ideal lead-off hitter BECAUSE THEY DON"T GET TRADED. The caps are me yelling BTW. Edit: And if a lead-off hitter does get traded (because it is technically possible) it is going to cost a lot more than we'll want to give up. Especially if it's Roberts. Dumbass Baltimore dickwads probably would want Quentin, or Floyd, or Danks, or Alexei, or something equally unrealistic like Poreda + Fields + Beckham around the All-Star break. So f*** them.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) LOL. I'd hate to see where you'd slot Wes Whisler. Behind Tomo and in front of Broadway because at least he's unintentionally left-handed, and there's always a chance we run into a team like the Sox. I have to clarify the Death option though, because if Death were voiced by Adam Carolla he'd immediately leapfrog all those clowns and find himself right behind Egbert.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) I still like Broadway as a backup option if we ever get ravaged with injuries to our rotation. Keep in AAA, and go from there. On the other hand however, we could throw McCulloch in as well. You're more optimistic about Broadway than I am then. I'd rather pick up some AAAA garbage with Major League experience and look that route if we get hit hard with injuries. Actually, I'd much rather just go with Egbert in that situation, but if the Sox wouldn't want to do that, or try an experiment like Justin Cassel, then I'd go the AAAA route. For me, Broadway would be the option on the depth chart that sits below Tomo Ohka and right above death.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 28, 2008 -> 03:54 PM) for the month of april I want Thome to power bunt it to the left side for the sheer gimmick and gaudiness of having a player bat 1.000 no matter the detriment to our production. Agreed, and I've been wanting him to do that for a while now. They practically give him first base if he can bunt it past the pitcher, so all he has to do is show the opposition he'll do it a couple times and then you'll see teams start to reconsider the shift. I don't see any way bunting could hurt him, especially in April when he's typically bad. Bunting, at the very least, will force him to watch the ball longer.