Eminor3rd

This is the problem. A strong, negative opinion without ever lifting a finger to understand it. Literally judging a book by its cover.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) I guess it also depends to what extent you want to declare something as sabermetrics anymore and which is traditional. Hawk trashes sabermetrics but he uses OBP, which has been tracked forever but was only given the name and used by sabermeticians in like the 70s and 80s. Personally, I don't even consider OBP/SLG/OPS to be saber stats any more, but that was how they originated. In 15-20 years, we may not be talking about UZR/150 as a saber stat either. More and more, you see that sabermetric websites focus so much more on pitch location and angle and the repeatability of mechanics, and they can look at that from release points of the baseball by pitchers and graph them out to figure this out. Agreed. Sabermetrics is really about the idea of advancing our understanding of baseball through the quantifiable measurement. The irony in the "saber vs. old school" debates on TV is that both sides are arguing with numbers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) You find it ironic that when data is questioned by someone, that person is labeled as being dumb? No, I think you missed my point. Questioning is FANTASTIC, and it is at the very core of the objectivity that sabermetrics promote. Being dismissive without questioning is the problem. People like Hawk are dismissive, and probably so are the majority of anti-data people. I have no problem with questioning and disagreeing with interpretations of data and/or the quality of data. I have a huge problem with the attitude that it's all "nerd garbage" and that it's wrong because it you (the proverbial you) don't consider it interesting to understand.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) Tell that guy to get off my f***ing TV. You and the guy with the pink Cubs hat at Wrigley can go away forever. But whose seat will Southpaw take to do the wavey arm thing in the third inning?

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 08:27 AM) Scored Scout seats at work. They better win if I'm missing the draft. If you'd rather watch the draft, I'll gladly take those seats off your hands

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) If Dunn returns to his 2012 form and a couple guys get back from injuries, the offense should be good enough to win. They were 4th in the AL in runs last season. I do agree, I don't know why Dunn is batting 3rd, 4th or 5th. I didn't understand it in 2011 or 2012. I guess the thinking is trying to have as many on base as possible when he bats in the event he doesn't strike out. When he doesn't strike out, Dunn is a .307 hitter during his White Sox career. Just FYI because it gives context: league average BABIP is pretty much always around .300. So, you would expect nearly all hitters to be +/- 15 points from there in a given season.

It's ironic that those claiming that sabermetrics exude "elitism" tend to be the same people that refuse to even try to understand them because it goes against their "traditional" ways. Ignoring the possibility of progress for nothing but the sake of tradition is about as elitist as it gets. I've pissed some people off on this board regarding the subject of sabermetrics before, but when I get worked up and vitriolic it is NEVER because people disagree with a sabermetric claim or don't concern themselves with the subject -- it is when people vehemently denounce it without even attempting to understand it. That's the kind of BS attitude that fosters an "us vs. them" s***-show in the first place. This isn't people being elitist, this is people being overly defensive on both sides. There's no magic answer to most baseball questions, sabermetric or not. You can disagree all you want and I'll respect it. But your claim deserves no respect if you are making it without bothering to be informed. That is the problem with Hawk's opinions -- they are all rooted in a bias he created when someone made him feel threatened. That's the immaturity that most of the most public voices on BOTH sides of the "debate" have shown, from my observations.

And the streak begins.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) The only way you do that is if you have zero intention on bringing Beckham back next season. Yeah, especially as well as he hit before he got hurt.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) I think playing with his brother has made 100% the difference in his game. I think he's just been hot. It's April 24th.

Probably, a hitting coach operates like a therapist. When a player is stuck, the coach can suggest some different things, run some drills, and offer an outside opinion, but ultimately the player's success depends on the player's ability to get through it with some encouragement.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 02:26 PM) Hitting coaches don't matter. There was a recent narrative coming out of ATL about how Greg Walker massively has helped Justin Upton. And I believe that just as much as I believed the people here that demonized GW when he was here as a Sox. Yeah the hitting coach is essentially employed to be a fall guy for managers

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) I believe that's what it's called when Brent Spiner analyzes your baseball stats. Rofl

Did Farmer just say "cybermetrics"?

Yeah I'd be alright if he just manages 300-400 ABs this year, honestly. I, too, wonder about Viciedo -- if Konerko hints at retirement later this year, it might make sense to start getting Viciedo used to 1B. I guess Keppinger could move to LF in that case, unless Jordan Danks becomes good somehow. Realistically though, Gillaspie and Keppinger make a very natural platoon. They both have a history of issues with same-handed pitchers.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 01:19 PM) I hope they find a way to keep him in the lineup once Beckham comes back. Yeah, me too. If they keep digging themselves into this hole over the next few weeks, the development of guys like Gillaspie will have toi become a bigger priority than winning this year, so it's possible.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 10:19 AM) Going along with that, Dunn's big problem is his strike zone contact percentage is awful. I actually thought it would be lower. The O-contact is what jumps out the most -- and that's the difference, I guess, between striking out and fouling pitches off to stay alive. Of course, we're looking at this in context of a team full of undisciplined hackers. Look at Alexei and Dayan's O-Swings. Disgusting.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) The advanced data suggests he's not swinging at many bad pitches, which might be even more troubling. Well, I should be more specific. By "bad pitches" I don't mean balls vs. strikes, but rather including breaking balls that (at least) start out in the zone as opposed to exclusively fastballs in the zone. This philosophy strikes me as intuitively dumb, considering that pitchers throw breaking balls in the zone for the sole purpose of tricking hitters into swinging at them.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 10:05 AM) No, they'll either make it up on an off day or do a day-night doubleheader some day when it's warmer and the kids are out of school. Ahh yes

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 24, 2013 -> 09:49 AM) Better keep batting Done 4th. I've always been a defender of him in the 3 hole, but now that Manto/Baines have convinced Dunn to swing at bad pitches, I'd rather have him batting 9th than anything.

So this is not a make-up doubleheader?

Semien was highlighted on FanGraphs today as part of Cistulli's "Fringe Five," as someone who is performing his way into some level of noteworthiness: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-...-april-24-2013/

QUOTE (danman31 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 09:22 PM) Who cares how interesting of a prospect they are? It's a results business. I don't care high school or college and no one should (or does) in retrospect. It's all about what they turned into, not where they came from. But age is a massive factor in how players turn out. Guys drafted out of HS have 4 years more at-bats in a professional system.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 01:55 AM) Mario Mendoza is not the worst hitter ever. So irritating to consistently hear such nonsense. Yeah, come on, Passan should understand the definition and implications of the Mendoza line. I really don't like Passan the past few years.