Eminor3rd

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 01:44 PM) Gavin Floyd and Jordan Danks to Arizona for Gerardo Parra and Patrick Corbin/Wade Miley. What do we do with Parra though?

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) But what is 'best case scenario'? I think every prospect has 'an upside'...and NONE have the upside of 'greatest pitcher ever'? But you are right, because this isn't an exact science Molina "could" become the next Walter Johnson. Reality speaking his upside appears to be a middle of the rotation pitcher (at this time). After we see him a bit more, he gains experience, the hitters adjust to him, then we are well within our right to re-evaulate him and adjust his 'upside'...which could be better (or worse) than initially thought. I don't think anyone knows (not even Kenny Williams) just HOW GOOD Molina can be. It appears his potential is all over the map, which for this deal...I DONT LIKE. To deal someone like Santos I'd have liked to have gotten multiple prospects (even one a bit lower ranked) or a single top prospect that has had more time at more advanced levels. There are still too many unknowns about Molina. Hell, i can't even get a good idea of where his fastball sits. I've seen high 80s...and I've seen 96. I agree with you, but here's how I see it: We have to admit that, especially with Paddy, the Sox are in a much better position to evaluate this prospect than we of the internet. If there was consensus all around the league, we could safely assume his quality level is in line with that consensus, but there isnt' Some people are saying 'meh' while others are saying top-of-the-rotation prospect. I think we have no choice but to give KW and Paddy the benefit of the doubt on how good of a prospect he is. Like you said, we don't know if his fastball is 87 or 96, but you can bet that KW/Paddy know exactly how fast it is. What we can evaluate is the strategy behind it. So, I look at it as Santos (young, promising RP aged 30 on a good contract) for Molina (legitimate AA SP prospect with top of the rotation ceiling), which I'm way down with. Bad teams should dump RP's at peak value for high end pitching prospects. So, are we critiquing the trade or are we critiquing the Sox ability to scout and evaluate talent? In my opinion, we (as posters) have little to contribute to the latter discussion at this point. If we're evaluating the trade by itself, assume that Molina is a top shelf prospect in the Sox opinion, I think it's harder to find fault.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) There's no doubt in my mind that KW should be targeting Grandal. We're going to need a catcher after next season, and in no way do I trust Flowers to become an everyday catcher. Reds have a need for pitching, and Sox have surplus of guys to get rid of. I'm definitely on the Grandal bandwagon too. However, I do think Conger would be a nice consolation prize. Similarly, at the cost of AJ and cash, it might be worht it to go that route and save Danks/Floyd to get pitchers back.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:12 PM) I think Floyd will be traded to the Orioles for Schoop and Avery.. Interesting, Schoop could be available since they have Machado. Seems like a lot for Floyd though, no? Maybe not.

Take a walk with me. Angels are clearly trying to contend, right? Moreso if they land CJ Wilson. They acquired Ianetta after they saw what Napoli did. Ianetta is a lefty masher, and his backup is a promising bat-first catcher named Hank Conger who is also right0handed and has, for whatever reason, received the Napoli treatment from Scioscia to this point. THE SOLUTION: AJ Pierzynski + $4m to LAA for Hank Conger Angels get a veteran left-hander to platoon with Ianetta, and someone who Scioscia would LOVE because he's a grindy, pitching-staff friendly, gamer type. Sox get a better version of Tyler Flowers, and a solid chance that one of them sticks. What say you? Also, what other REALISTIC Dark Horse trade proposals can you think of?

Ha, "if he's the second coming of Greg Maddux, then he's a future #2."

FWIW, Rockies just traded Huston Street for literally nothing. PTBNL and salary relief.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) They had better be damn sure this guy is going to be a quality starter here for several years or this trade is just not logical. You are not "restocking your system" when you trade 1 for 1 off your Major League team for a AA player, btw. Would you rather he got two more Zach Stewarts back? Seriously, based on what AA said in his post-trade interviews, Molina was considered untouchable by at least half the front office, and they were passionately arguing against making this trade. Personally, I'm glad KW is finally targeting some high-ceiling guys instead of a bunch of upper minors role players. Yeah, it's a gamble, but all prospects are. It's the only way.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:06 PM) There would be no 'risk' involved. I just don't want to watch him play baseball anymore. He's terrible. Fair enough.

If at league minimum and CQ (or Rios) is gone, then whatever. Otherwise, Lillibomb should play that role.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) No, that's no good. He's unproven and not worthy. You don't see other teams (Braves with Kimbrel, Brewers with Axford) handing over closer duties to guys with no track record of ML success. You forgot your green!

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) What the f***. Man, I loved Sergio. Getting only one player for him is a failure. And Buehrle leaving free agency? f*** it. I'm off the KW train. But blow the f***ing team up. Blow it the f*** up. But seriously, Molina looks good. But what the f***? Needed something else. I'm sure we could have gotten two crappier players instead. Would that be better? Also note that we give no salary relief, which surely would have netted us a fringe guy. But we aren't in a position to give salary relief.

http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story...1664#11comments

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/w...ebuild-process/

Quit crying about trading a 30/36 closer. What do you people want? You complain about having no farm system and then complain when he tries to build up the farm system. You guys sound like Joe Morgan with your 'proven closer' garbage. The Rays build a dominant bullpen from scraps EVERY year. We have Addison Reed ready to take on the late inning role next year or the year after at the latest. Also, it is NOT a good market for closers. Papelbon and Bell went to the only two teams willing to spend big money on a closer. Only the Red Sox remain, and Gammons says they dont have much to spend because they want Ortiz back and to avoid the luxury tax. Now, look at the list of closers that are still available for NO PLAYERS on the free agent market. There are 5 or 6 "proven closers" that can be had there, plus it's widely rumored that Bailey and Street are being shopped like crazy. Santos was like the 9th best option for closer available for maybe 3 teams that are still looking.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Wow, that is an awful return. Instantly our best SP prospect

First reaction: SERGIO? But his contract was so good! Second reaction: BLUE JAYS? Damn you, Antholpolous!! Third reaction: (look up Molina) Ok, ok, legit pitching prospect. Fourth reaction: Although I love Sergio's contract, I cannot help but like that KW is trading relivers for legit SP prospects. Great market to do so. Theoretically, a good move.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) So far these winter meetings are so damn boring. I hope things pick up today for the Sox, as well as for every other ball club. It's 10AM on day two. Jose Reyes signed a $106m deal.

Kevin Slowey to the Rockies for PTBNL. Man, I don't understand the Twinks.

There is an argument to made for the value in not having a COMPLETELY decimated pitching staff even while rebuilding, and it's a combination of maintaining fan interest in the face of a talent dump, providing veteran leadership for the rookies, and maintaining a shot in the dark at winning a weak division if the albatrosses bounce back. It's like the Royals signing guys like Jeff Francis to one year deals like they did last year -- the alternative (or at least the fear) is ending up like the Orioles with their recent crop of busted top pitching prospects (Britton, Tillman, Matusz). But, this only makes sense if BOTH Floyd and Danks go for prospect packages AND Buerhle is willing to come back on some sort of a hometown discount because we give him a NTC and essentially the opportunity to retire in Chicago. And, to be clear, the rebuild has to be the top priority. And there still has to be a net salary drop team-wide. Basiclaly, there is a situation where it would make sense to CONSIDER bringing Buerhle back at some point this offseason, but it's certainly not right now, and it's very, very unlikely given the dominoes that would have to fall and Buerhle's leverage in driving his own price up. I'm sorry, guys. I like him too, but it just isn't going to work out.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) Oh, gotcha. I know nothing about their current farm, so I assumed you were listing former busts I'd also never heard of. Yeah, my phrases were in a weird order.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) Phil Humber? No, sorry. I was listing the high ceiling arms they have now, not guys they've busted.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) This is so flawed. The White Sox need to be sending out a f***ing net fishing for talent anywhere. You don't dismiss a Yonder Alonso because Alex Rios and Carlos Quentin are presently employed. They are not part of the next White Sox Championship team. How is it flawed to target guys that fill holes in the depth chart? I didn't say avoid Alonso at all costs, I said Grandal is much preferable.

Yeah, Alonso has nowhere to play unless both CQ and Rios go, or unless you want De Aza on the bench. Grandal would be far preferable IMO

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) That's why I said I "desperately" want to keep him. If Sox are too cheap and want to slap the loyal fans in the face and let him go, then I'd rather see him stay in Chicago and not be on the f***ing Twins beating us six times a year and like somebody said, no-hitting us, which he would. It makes NO business sense whatsoever for the Sox to sign a borderline #2/#3 veteran starter to a multiyear deal at $12m-$15m per year right now. If KW signs Buerhle ot anything other than a below-market deal, THAT will be slapping the fans in the face.