thxfrthmmrs

SO looking forward to Casper Wells making a cameo as a reliever tonight

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) It might be easier to get Wong and Owens. Who's that?

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 01:09 PM) I agree. Wong, Martinez, and Wacha sounds like the majority of the return for Chris Sale, not Alexei/Thornton Martinez OR Wacha.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 01:06 PM) I don't think that package brings you back one of those pitchers though. Depends on how desperate the Cardinals are, but I think it's pretty fair. Their current shortstop is awful, they have a surplus on major league ready pitching prospects, Kolton Wong is blocked by Carpenter, many people in the media have said we didn't get enough value for Thornton; Thornton is likely to fare better in the NL, and the Cardinals need more veteran and proven arms in the bullpen. So I don't think it's that far fetched.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 12:45 PM) So far this is a typical Soxtalk thread regarding Sox player values. Our guys are all worth s*** until they get traded, and then its we never got enough. I think if we packaged Alexei and Thorton to the Cardinals for Kolten Wong and Martinez or Wacha, or along the lines, people would be ecstatic. I am don't have a problem with the value of the return, I just don't think it's the right type of player.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 03:29 AM) Claiming to know all of these prospects to bust is unreasonable. Two of them are in their first full year, one in his second, and the other two have had injury based setbacks. Sorry Paulstar - but your post was very biased in my opinion. At least we both agree the hope is for your sentiment to be off the mark. Cheers to that. I wouldn't call Walker a first full year player in the pros. Walkers has been in the system for long enough where we feel like we have a good enough read on him. Spin it all you want, but the facts are evident, their batting average keeps on dropping every time they get promoted. Out of our quartet and now Jacobs, they only have had one season with BA above .300, and the rest weren't even close. The fact is, we haven't any success with these type of prospects to be zeroing in on these players, namely spending 80% of the international pool on the Zapata signing and now the Jacobs trade.

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Some of us are not complaining about the value of the prospect we are getting in return. I could care less if it's Red Sox's 11th, 12th, or 13th best prospect, I just want someone who has good baseball skills and is a good bet of making the majors, even if they don't have the ceiling as high as Jacobs. Our minor leaguers that has the best chance of making the majors are Semien and Sanchez, guys who might be role players or average players, but have better baseball instinct and are more likely to make the majors. We don't have enough of those guys in the minors. Getting a Marco Scutaro type of player as prospect in return is a lot more ideal for us at this point. We already have enough lottery tickets, raw athletes in the system with Mitchell, Thompson, Walker, Hawkins, Zapata, I would even throw in Barnum, and now Jacobs. We will be lucky if even one of them will make it to the majors, and it would be at least several years away. I am afraid it's going to be a long rebuild that keeps on coming up short.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 12:46 AM) His name is Lance Broadway That proved to be a failed approach for pitchers. Yet what's being undermined is the hitters from our farm that actually reached the majors were the likes of Sweeney, Getz, Morel, Beckham, and Phegley.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 12:22 AM) Why would you want that? Are you aspiring to be Jerry Angelo? That's what he always said. Targeting low ceiling high floor guys doesn't win you the World Series. This trade was good. Matt Thornton is done. Thornton should have been traded 2 years imo. Because we are on the verge of trading away half of our team and there isn't a single hitter we can plug into our starting lineup this season or next season to fill the void, with the exception of Phegley. Some of us are hoping this is going to be a a short rebuild, but it ain't going to happen with these types of players we are targeting, we are always going to be a few years away. We have been on this lottery ticket approach for the past 3-4 years in terms of offensive talent, and nothing has paid off for us so far. And as much as I like this approach, we can't just have a system full of these guys. We need to target some some low ceiling high floor Marco Scutaro-esque players who will turn out to be solid role players

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 11:51 PM) You mean like... Brandon Jacobs? Ha, fixed.

Is there anything such as a low ceiling high floor guy? If so, let's target that guy.

I do think Anderson is too high, but it could also be result of we don't have a clear cut number 2. I wouldn't put Hawkins any higher than Thompson and Anderson until he show signs of figuring things out. Thompson looked like he would be a favorite for number 2 until he recently 0-31 embarrassment. Anderson isn't ideal either as his defense is very iffy so far.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) What's funny is that if you look at the first 6-7 years in the league for Duncan (4 years of college) and Deng (one year), Duncan actually has more of a workload, and one year averaged 40.6 mpg, 1.4 minutes more than Deng's career high. It's like people forget Duncan is 37 and that's why the last few seasons his minutes have trailed off. Deng: Duncan: You can tell it was philosophy change. Starting from the 04-05 season, Duncan and Parker's top MPG was around 34 minutes per game, and Manu tops at around 30-31 a game, but usually under 30 per game. There are also notorious about sitting out their stars and throwing the game away. At that point Duncan was only 28, Parker 22, and Manu was 27. Granted, Pops never played Parker and Manu high minutes to begin with. So yes, over the past decade or so, the Spurs have been very careful in preserving their player's health. Thibs has been burned for playing his players too much, even in garbage time situation, while Pops has been fined for sitting his players, total opposite styles.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) I will just say that, for all the non-excitement that they create, the Spurs seem to be the team the Bulls are modeling themselves after. What they need to do is, rather than extending late 20s picks that you've developed who will come off the bench for 2-3 years before finally getting a chance to start, trade it for an asset that you need and value highly and plug it into your lineup. Imagining the Spurs right now with Kawhi Leonard is silly, and they got it because they traded a former 26th pick for him. The Bulls need to find creativity like that. Perhaps that player is Butler in a year or two. Perhaps it's Teague, maybe they can get something out of Gibson still. Maybe they don't. Except Thibs run his players out in the court till they bleed out. And Pops has become the most conservation coach in the game in managing player mileage. Most people wouldn't have a problem with resigning Deng to a fair contract if he's healthy and he can play for another 3-4 years at an all star level. But the fact that his wrist is still irritating him to the point he's shooting a career worst the past two years, and all the minutes he's played in the past three years will eventually add up. Deng wasn't even known as an iron man to begin with. Deng can still be valuable defensively, but he will slow down a lot sooner than later with all the workload, and he will not be a reliable offensive option with the way he's shooting the ball.

I still think Jimmy Butler is more of a natural 3. By not extending Deng, we will be able to shift Jimmy to the 3 and look for a natural scoring 2 that we really need to compliment this team. If we do not extend Deng and amnesty Boozer, then we would have a lot of rooms to play with, and we can really target some big name free agents or the plethora of great young RFA's in next year's class. By extending Deng, we are really saying a 30 year old Deng with all the mileage and nagging injuries is the best option in 2014, when it really isn't. And it will effectively close our windows to be free agent players in 2014, and the three years beyond that.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 11:22 PM) You nailed it though. He's refreshing. I wonder if people are overrating his performance based on the fact that no one else in the system resembles that. He's what we hope our top prospects to be doing right now. If Hawkins, Thompson, or Mitchell are performing like Semien is right now, everyone will be screaming for joy. It's a shame Semien doesn't have the tools of those other guys, because he certainly looks like he has the smarts and skills to be an impact player. We may have too much expectation for this guy, given he doesn't have one single great tool. But in a thin system like ours, where our top hitter prospects aren't hitting, those expectations are understandable.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 10:16 PM) That's it though. He's been fine. I'm not going to get excited about that. He's a refreshing prospect compared to the all or nothing, raw, athletic outfield prospects we currently have. Outside of his amazing walk rate, his strikeout rate has also improved a lot this year, to a point he's striking out once every 7 PA. He plays at a premium position, albeit not spectacular defense, but he is on pace to hit 15 HR and steal 20 bases while boasting an almost .400 OBP, as a 22 year old in Double A. If you add that together, that is pretty impressive. The gap between him and Sanchez is a lot closer in my books.

Personally, I wouldn't have Zewski over Rienzo and Castro right now. I like Trey, and I feel like got a steal in the 7th round for only $500,000, he was a third round talent who projects to be a good contact hitter. But it's not a sure bet that he reaches the majors, and we haven't seen enough of him to put him over prospects who will be in the majors this year. Castro looks like he can be a very good reliever in the majors, and Rienzo who is likely to make his major league debut this year, either as a reliever or as a back of rotation starter.

Bulls are reportedly looking to extend the contract of Deng between the value of the Smith and Iggy's deal. I don't want to bash them for the lack of creativity once again, I am just perplexed on their man crush on Deng. This franchise needs to learn to move on.

So when I posed this suggestion to the board two weeks ago, specifically if you are willing to trade Sale for the right offer, 70% of the board voted no. I like how people are more open to the idea right now, just proves I am not crazy with my idea. I would trade Sale for the right offer in a heart beat, and I love rooting for the guy. As Rosenthal point out, none of our current players can net us a premium, top prospect, with the exception of Alexei + Rios in a deal. We have plenty of average to good prospects in the farm, but we badly need some premium prospects who can hit and are close to major league ready. Also the risk of Sale getting injured or losing effectiveness over the duration of his deal is pretty high, I wouldn't want to take that risk.

I have no problem with Zapata not being ranked for uncertainty. Like I said before, he can be the top prospect for us after his first season, or sitting outside of Top 20. If you look at the Top 25 list, Zapata would have been the most raw prospect on that list, even more so than Danish and Zewski. At least the latter are more than capable of playing for Bristol, while Zapata is at least a year or two away from reaching that level. But I do think Zewski is ranked a bit too high at this point. I am not sure if his hot first 5 games bumped up his ranking a little bit.

After getting swept by the Cubs for the first time in the history of mankind, beating up on Verlander and the Tigers just feels.. unreal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Because it's a lot more likely that the White Sox try to find guys like the names mentioned (for 1B/3B) than giving Andy Wilkins a shot...players that are in the doghouse with their teams, which might make them more available than would otherwise be the case. Pretty random name to say the least given there were no rumors about Sox and Lawrie so far. Even in the slightest chance we do acquire Lawrie, his defense is gold glove caliber at third, and his bat profiles more of a 3B than 1B.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 10:49 PM) Why aren't we talking about this guy more?? Oh wait his age. Damn that age. Who cares about age, if he is 30 and gets to the big leagues and produces, that is all that matters. Age sure does matter. If he's 20 years old and put up these types of numbers, he has a much higher chance of making it to the majors. He's almost 27, way to old for the level, it is expected that he will dominate 21-22 year old pitchers in their 2nd or 3 year in baseball. Take a look at our good friend Seth Loman. He was a year younger than Curley when he put up the same type of raw numbers in 2010. Yet he's approaching 28 now and struggling to hit in Triple A. There is a 0.1% chance a player makes it to the majors by 30 years and actually have a productive career.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 09:46 PM) Why does is it matter what age he is when the rankings come out though? Why should he be punished for being born in December rather than March? He'll play the entire 2013 season as a 22 year old...that's what should matter when discussing if he's age appropriate. Not saying I agree with it, but that' usually how the rankings work. There are so many great prospects in the minors, a "23 year" old just finished A+ usually give ways to the younger or more hyped prospects when it comes to the rankings. And let's be real, those rankings don't usually get it right. To be honest, I don't even care much about the Top 100 rankings. The Sox has placed more minor leaguers into the big leagues in the past few years than some of the "better farms" out there, yet we often get looked down upon because we didn't have more than one Top 100 'spect in a given year. Micah Johnson has a chance be a very solid regular by age 24/25, regardless he makes some arbitrary ranking.