Leonard Washington

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 02:48 AM) I'd pick the Jays to get him too. They have tons of young pitching. Yes, I believe we have the talent to get Upton. The probability - who knows? We really can't tell since we don't even know what direction Kenny is going in yet. I think we could afford the cost *if* the focus is on winning in 2011 with Buehrle and Jackson, and in 2012 with Peavy. If we win then, the whole picture changes. If however Kenny decides on prioritizing winning in say 2012 and forwards while running out a good but kind of in between team this year, then I don't think Kenny sees us as able to afford it. And still, it all comes down to Towers. He'll be offered tons of talent and I think that will be all that matters in the end. I know though that if Kenny does want to get serious and make a truly competitive offer, Towers will definitely recognize the talent we have. We wouldn't just get blown out of the water by Boston like everyone seems to think whenever we covet a player they do. Interesting about Upton. Were you in the office or something? That's pretty cool. Yeah, I agree we could conceivably get Upton. But with the whole Boston thing (which sucks because I hate the other Sox) they're depth is embarassingly better than ours is. My point I guess is that I don't see KW willing to give up what they'll want. And that's probably a good thing, even though I'm a big J.Upton fan. I was in the front office. I wasn't assistant GM or anything cool like that obviously. I was the intern...the guy that's in charge of keeping his boards updated and doing research where he saw fit. I did some cool s*** (the coolest was player research for guys they were interested in...especially cool when they get the guy - Brandon Morrow for example) but also tedious stuff life scout expenses and whatnot. Either way, when you're a Canadian looking to get into baseball....it was a good start. If only they were in hiring mode....still working on that. But again, I'm not trying to position myself as some superior judge of talent. We're all baseball fans. The best scouts I met while I was with Toronto were the humble ones. It's the humble ones (when you look at their signing history) that sign the best players.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 02:25 AM) I was thinking yesterday of making a thread suggesting a Luke Scott for Quentin trade, but decided against it. Quentin has vastly superior talent but Scott is the safer bet to produce. Quentin has shown it isn't just physical anymore, it's mental and emotional as well, and even when things are going right for him he's prone to falling off a cliff at the next step. If we're trying to go for it all in 2011 I'd probably do that deal with Scott being the DH, but if Kenny trades pitching and tries to turn back the clock a bit I'd keep Quentin. I think the O's would do that though since they have to be all about potential at this point and Scott is right at his ceiling IMO. Funny you say that. In a different Sox board I suggested a straight-up Quentin-Scott deal.

I think again we're just looking at the same subject from different angles. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) you're saying that we could plausibly make a deal for Upton. I don't think you're wrong if that's the case. But I'm trying guess the probability, and I just don't see it happening in our case. I suspect it will take an absolute ton to get Upton (as it should) and I don't think we're in a place to give what they want. Sure, we have the pieces I guess, but I don't see us being able to afford the cost. If I was a betting man I would say the Blue Jays get him. I worked under AA for a little bit, and he absolutely LOVES him. He's rated as an 80 on his scouting board. As for the whole "worked under AA thing", that looks pretentious in hindsight. But I don't mean it in that way. I'm not an expert. But I doubt there's a team that's a better fit and has a better means of acquiring him than the Jays. That's all.

I'm a big Luke Scott fan. I'd like to see us gauge what the O's want for him (if they haven't already).

It's just an inconvenient matchup. Beckham is probably our most valuable position player, but Kelly Johnson had a great season. Alexei probably comes second, but Stephen Drew is there. Morel is nice, but they've got a 3b. All those guys they have are tradeable, but I doubt they're going to want to make one major deal that forces their hand into another trade. They're not going to want to lose leverage on trading any of those three other guys. And on our side, we don't have many areas where we can trade away big pieces (if any). We might have the least depth of any team in baseball. We have good starters, but we're not exactly "deep" in terms of pitching because our farm system is so barren. The pitchers we have are nice, but it's basically feast or famine with us. It just doesn't seem to fit. There's a lot of teams that can put together a better package (that they're comfortable with) than we can. And on a side note.....I'm enjoying the discussion. I generally avoid internet stuff because too many people aren't worth having a discussion with.

I guess all I have to say to that is we feel differently about his approach. I agree in that I don't think Towers is the type of GM to be deceitful about his intentions. I don't think he's stringing people along. From everything available to the public he's made it more than clear he's asking for the moon. So long as he's making himself clear, he's not leading anybody on by any means. And in terms of WAR and all that, from what I know about Towers is he's an old school scout-based guy. That being said, Danks is a favourite of scouts as well so I don't think that's a big deal. But like I said in my initial post, I don't think the Sox are a good fit. I agree they've had a ton of past deals with ARI (plus the Peavy deal), but I don't think the two teams match up all too well in terms of players. Other teams simply have a lot more depth to work with.

The plus side of Damon is he holds his own against LHP's (unlike Matsui). Still....not interested in him as anything other than Plan F

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 12:35 AM) He's got a great release too and his footwork from what I've seen is impressive. Plus I love his aggressiveness and how he's always looking to pick off the guy at first. Running on Mark with Olivo behind the plate would be suicide. Olivo still can't put it all together though. He has all the physical talent but mentally or whatever it just doesn't seem to be there for him. I mean, you can't look up a "pitchers think I suck" stat but if you could I imagine he'd be way up there. I seem to remember Bill James pegging him as one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball in last year's handbook. Don't quote me though. From what I've seen of him, he's got hard/slow hands (passed balls, dropped balls), and he takes a long time putting his fingers down. Pitchers seem to have a hard time getting into a good rhythm with him on the mound. Then again, I haven't seen a ton of him. But when I have seen him play I watch him a little closer because I'm always curious why Sox pitchers supposedly didn't like him behind the plate.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 12:45 AM) Willingham is a really strong hitter, but his injuries lately are concerning. The Nats seem to value him way too much though, so I can't see them giving him up. Doesn't matter, as last thing KW is looking for is a righty hitting OF. I kind of agree with Phil Rogers (which scares me) about how we may be overrating the need for lefty bats. I'd rather just have good hitters. Matsui, as an example, is a good hitter when you look at his overall numbers, but the guy hasn't posted an OPS above .700 against LHP's in two seasons. Dunn's not much better if I'm remembering correctly. I guess the advantage is you burn through the other teams bullpen quicker when you force the issue of a pitching change, but I'm concerned KW might be forcing the issue a little bit.

Willingham doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm not sure why because he's a good hitter...but he just seems boring. It's funny, but it's for that reason that he's likely a smart pickup. He's underrated.

Well the kicker with Danks is that he's only team controllable for 2 more season. If he had a Gavin Floyd contract it would be different. With everyone else we would be giving them (Quentin included) it's primarily about potential. I suppose the same could be said about Upton, except the potential with Upton is HOF, whereas nobody else can realistically say that. And sure, Viciedo could be Kendry Morales. That's the fun with prospects. Eduardo Escobar could be Omar Vizquel. But the reality is both Viciedo and Mitchell are borderline top-100 prospect guys, not blue chippers. And again, not advocating we make the trade I suggested. Just saying I think that's the type of deal they'll want. I think they're making his availability so public for a reason, hoping some team will crack at the thought of his potential. I peg the chances of him actually being dealt at about 10 percent.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 12:09 AM) I agree. But not THAT much more valuable and I'm probably biased towards Upton. Look, in the American League and in the Cell, a now-25 John Danks - a lefty - did this over the last three seasons: 2008: 195 IP, 1.226 WHIP, 8.4 H/9, 0.7 HR/9, 2.6 BB/9, 7.3 K/9 2009: 200.1 IP, 1.283 WHIP, 8.3 H/9, 1.3 HR/9, 3.3 BB/9, 6.7 K/9 2010: 213 IP, 1.216 WHIP, 8.0 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 6.8 K/9 This kid is f***ing good. Go float his name over on the DBacks board (wherever that is) as the centerpiece of an Upton deal and I guarantee the fans over there will not laugh at you. I think you've misunderstood some stuff though. I know he's good...and I did have him as the centerpiece of an Upton deal. I had him, Quentin (who was being discussed as a borderline non tender candidate), Santos (a solid, young RP), and 2 prospect with some decent sized question marks. And I still think that was too much. I wasn't suggesting that's what we offer. I was saying I think that's what they'll ask for. They've pretty much made it public they're not trading Upton unless the return is huge. Morosi at Fox Sports said he's heard they want to "win" any trade they make, or they're not making it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 12:03 AM) Ken Griffey Jr 19 - .264/.329/.420/.748 108 OPS+ 20 - .300/.366/.481/.847 135 OPS+ 21 - .327/.399/.527/.926 155 OPS+ 22 - .308/.361/.535/.896 149 OPS+ Justin Upton 19 - .221/.283/.364/.647 62 OPS+ 20 - .250/.353/.463/.816 106 OPS+ 21 - .300/.366/.532/.899 129 OPS+ 22 - .273/.356/.442/.799 111 OPS+ He's obviously not quite Griffey, but Griffey was also one of the best of all time. I would say he appears to be one solid step below Griffey, but it's not like that would be mediocre. He's still very young and he's established himself as a good hitter already who could still end up being phenomenal. There's a ton of value in that. He hasn't even gotten close to entering his prime years yet. I don't think Upton will be dealt. Towers is waiting for a package that is going to blow him away, and I don't think anyone is going to provide that. The team that probably has the best chance to acquire him would be Kansas City...we'll see whether or not Moore even wants to go there. (FWIW, I really don't think Clay Buccholz would be a huge get. I think he's probably a solid #2 this year, but his ERA should have been higher this year. If anything, this year was more of a correction in his career stats between his previous 2 seasons where he gave up a ton of homers while still striking people out. He's good, but he's not nearly as valuable as Justin Upton) Thank you. And as a side note, from what I read the DBacks were asking for Buccholz and Ellsbury. That by no means implies that's ALL they were asking for. And everything I've read about their asking price is that it's ridiculous.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 18, 2010 -> 11:58 PM) A #2 starter who is young and LH and under team control isn't a back breaker? Let's ignore all the other pieces for a moment and try to remember how valuable Johnny Danks is alone. When that inevitable "Sox Listening on John Danks" post hits MLBTR go look at the comments and watch fans from the other 29 teams salivate over him. Yeah, he's valuable. I know he's valuable. Justin Upton is more valuable. Not a difficult concept.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 18, 2010 -> 11:53 PM) That's just wrong. He'll probably end up in his 7th different organization this year (my bet is Texas) and he's only 31. If that combined with an unreal arm, the ability to hit 20+ bombs, and an overall scarcity of catchers doesn't say something really bad about his competency behind the plate I don't know what does. OTOH, Yadier Molina is one of the types of players you want to build a team around. Agreed.... other than his arm, I don't really seem him as anything special defensively.

I don't want Olivo. We need guys that can get on base.

I don't think teams are willing to part with that (nor would I), but I wouldn't at all be shocked if that's the type of deal they're looking for. I just don't see why they would trade him if they don't get a ridiculous return. I seriously doubt they're shopping him. And realistically, for teams with minor league depth, a package of #2 SP, league average OF, young RP, two B level prospects isn't a back breaker.

I don't see us being a fit. Our most valuable position players (Alexei/Beckham) play positions they already have filled with competent players, our best prospect can't be traded until June, our other prospects aren't that good for the most part, and we aren't in a position to deal more than 1 starter or reliever (if any). I would guess the DBacks would want something along the lines of Danks1, Quentin, Santos, Mitchell, Viciedo. If they don't get blown away they have no reason to trade him.

Justin Upton has a chance to be the best player in baseball. I would trade a ton to get him. And on a side note, the Marlins are apparently on the verge of signing John Buck to a 3-year deal. That would eliminate one of AJ's potential suitors (and Buck getting a 3-year deal might also set an ugly precedent for AJ to work with).

I don't like this change. It seems redundant to have the same logo twice. I wonder what prompted this...

Funkhauser will never get it.

I have to say...it's a strange thought. We have the best offensive and defensive SS on the AL No biggie..yet jeter is still jeter. For whatever reason this is run.....the baseball stuff is true....

Check out the front page of baseball reference. Good stuff.

Rob Neyer giving Alexei some love: http://twitter.com/robneyer/status/2103562918166528

Wasn't there a year when Palmeiro won the award despite only playing 20-30 games at 1B?