Leonard Washington

Quentin/Floyd/Teahen for Ivan Nova/Gardner. Cashman said he's targeting a RH 4th OF. Quentin wouldn't be a 4th OF, but it does indicate that Cashman senses the Yankees lineup is a little LH heavy. Their reason for interest in Floyd is obvious. Teahen is a salary dump with negative trade value, but a team like the Yankees can afford such an expensive utility guy more than anyone. Gardner's appeal is obvious, and Nova has a power fastball/sinker that would probably appeal to KW. He'd also make our rotation a lot less costly going forward. We'll need that money next offseason when Jackson and Buehrle become free agents. Teahen being gone is a no-brainer in its benefit, and it opens up a spot on the 25-man for an extra reliever (which could be bought with our remaining cash...we could even afford Soriano in such a scenario). These are just quick thoughts and will never happen. But I'm bored.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:59 PM) Crain had a good year in 2010 but when I was in Minneapolis, Twins fans held him in the same regard Scott Linebrink was held during his time in Chicago. Funny you say that, because I was going to mention how his fastball reminds me of Linebrink's. It's fast, but it's straight as an arrow, and left up in the zone far too often. What separates him from Linebrink is he has enough control of his offspeed stuff to keep guys from sitting fastball. Still, I don't particularly like Crain or Guerrier.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:47 PM) Well, we once had Guerrier. Wonder what his relationship is with the Sox after he was traded that one time. I doubt it would bother him too much. It was a long time ago and it's not like we gave him away.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:58 PM) Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. But +1 if this is a serious post. Nostalgia means nothing in pro sports. Maybe it shouldn't, but it definitely affects teams' decisions (Jeter this offseason, for example. Konerko too.) Although I agree the Cards probably have no interest in a MB for Rasmus swap.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:55 AM) And for the record, I'm all for trading Floyd. Just not for speedy fast guys who are reliant on batting average who who can be found in almost every organization. Gardner's OBP is not at all overly reliant on his batting average. He's always had a high BB% as a pro.

Reports are now saying the deal is worth about $120MM.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:33 AM) You have to look at those two trades as separate entities. ? What two trades? It was all one deal. Anyways, it's all semantics.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:30 AM) Garza's got to be moving now. Yeah, the Rays might be the biggest winners of this deal (Phils aside).

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:30 AM) And in return for those 3 got the 2010 Cy Young award winner who is under contract through 2013. Now they have both of those starting pitchers and 3 prospects to show for it. Yeah, I wasn't saying it was a loss. I was just saying they didn't really get 3 prospects in return in the big scheme of the trade.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:25 AM) This is fantastic news for the White Sox. I'm not concerned about Yankees spending money to sign relievers, as it's not like the White Sox were going to spend significant money on any remaining relievers. It's obvious any significant reliever we bring in will be via trade. Agreed...if anything this trade might give us more leverage in trade talks (of course depending on the player's involved). KW already made it clear he's looking via trade for relief help, so any Yankee overspending shouldn't be too big a deal.

On paper, they're clearly the best. But in reality, who knows. I remember ESPN was talking about our 2006 rotation being among the best ever, and we all know how that worked out.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:07 AM) The Phillies dumping Lee a year ago doesn't look too bad right now (regardless of what you think of the talent): lose Lee for a year and get three prospects in return. They got 3 prospects in return, but they also gave up prospects. D'Arnould, Taylor, and Kyle Drabek (who, when combined, are much better than what they received).

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=12575 Someone with a Baseball Prospectus membership should correct this in the comments section.

I never count the Twins out, but unless they make some big moves, they're vulnerable.

For anyone who's interested in my opinions about these reactions, I'm the first guy to respond to the post on MLBTR. I am SplitFingeredPujol

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:44 AM) The epic farm system might never see the light of day though. Because Dayton will be asking his manager to play Francouer every day. The guy blocked Kila because he had a fetish for Mike Jacobs. I mean seriously, WTF? This exactly proves my point.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:37 AM) Dayton Moore only loves acquiring former Braves players and guys who can't get on base. He's put together an epic farm system though... that's where the scouting director thing comes into play. His problem is he's too loyal to his initial opinions of guys he had an involvement with in amateur evaluations. This is a silly quality to have in a GM. In a scouting director, it's less silly. He has a good eye for amateur talent...just a total lack of rationality for how to handle a major league roster.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:18 AM) I was talking more specifically about the last page. I'm slightly drunk and equally touchy...

haha...I'm not sure if you're talking about me, but I've never considered myself a sabr guy. I like to scout first, and check that stats to see where I'm agreed and differed with.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:53 AM) You'll see me still b**** about Carlos Pena though. I can't appreciate the pure power if you don't hit at least a respectable average though, haha. I also think there is a place in the roster for these guys, however, if you had 9 players like Dunn/Reynolds/Pena (and I don't really want to put Dunn in that class cause offensively he's far more productive than the other two) that you'd have hard time winning despite the fact that your optimized lineups would churn out pretty ridiculous offensive runs per game numbers. I say that because I still see a lot of value in a hitters ability to hit against good pitchers and I think when you hit .200 you are more likely going to have a harder time getting a hit against an upper echelon pitcher or a good set-up guy/closer. And I think you are most likely to be in those sitautions in the post-season (when teams have 3 to 4 man rotations and in general the teams have far better pitchers) or in late/close game situations (when teams are using their premium relievers). But Dunn is definitely a great fit. I also have a hard time using some of the defensie metrics. I think they can provide decent value in large sample sizes and for certain positions but I still have issues with them and still have more trust in what a scout who covers a player or coach that watches a player every day thinks. I also feel that catchers are probably the hardest overall defensive position to judge. I say that because there are so many intangibles that go with calling a game and to me you can't just go by the pure differential in ERA between catcher A and B. Kalapse: I also completely agree with you on Paulie and I very much appreciate the little things he does (such as the throw to 2nd to turn the DP or just get the force out) and the marvelous job he does digging balls out. I agree....the DBacks are a perfect example of a team that can't succeed with a lineup of so many all or nothing guys..especially when Dunn was there. I also agree about guys like Pena....they're mistake hitters and they usually prey on guys who can't locate. Guys who can locate can usually exploit the massive holes in mistake hitters' swings. I think Pena's holes are simply becoming more recognized and he's paying the price (Troy Glaus comes to mind). I also agree with defensive stats being tough to measure with 1B's and C's especially, but catcher's by FAR the most statistically enigmatic position. Catcher is easily the most demanding defensive position, and the position where intangibles are most important. I read an interview (just an hour ago actually) with Chris Sale, and he gave AJ a ton of credit for his immediate success. You can't measure that.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:37 AM) I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation? Yeah agreed. Unless its a 3-way deal, it doesn't make much sense. Maybe with the Brewers. They could get Floyd, we could get Cain. I know how much you love hypothetical trade proposals...

QUOTE (TomPickle @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:20 AM) I don't know if the Jeff Francouer deal was mentioned in here earlier or not, but the Royals have also gone out and signed Melky Cabrera. At this rate I'm shocked Dayton Moore didn't sign Matt Diaz. I think it's become more than apparent Moore is better suited as a scouting director and not a GM.

I never expected Crawford to get paid this much until the Werth signing. But since then, this is about what I expected.

I wasn't really even suggesting trading Quentin. My original post was suggesting moving Flowers for one of LA's high upside RHR's...I was just saying someone like Quentin would probably have to be included to get Broxton. Teahen for Lyon makes some sense though. I like that Lyon's shown he can pitch well in the AL.

QUOTE (TomPickle @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:51 AM) The last thing the Dodgers need to do is get worse defensively in the OF. That's true. I just looked at their depth chart, and they had Jay Gibbons as their LF, which sparked the Quentin thought. They probably have a prospect they can plug in there, but who knows with Colletti. Either way, I think a Flowers for high-upside bullpen arm makes more sense. I love Jensen's arm the best, but he's a flyball pitcher.