MindGame2004

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 11:11 AM) 57 SB's and plays really good D. He had a WOBA of .251 and a wRC+ of 52 though. Yuck. Has virtually no power, so with that said, he's got to have a MUCH higher OBP to utilize his speed. It does nothing if he's not on base. 57 SB with a .274 OBP. That's insane. He cut back on his strikeouts, too. Reds may be going for a full teardown this winter. We'll see.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 12:29 PM) The Sox were 3rd in the AL in pitching WAR this year (9th in the MLB) and 1st for SP. Samardzija was a failure, but you can't win them all. Thanks a lot, Chris Sale.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) Are we sure Cooper is good anymore? I'm not sure it matters. It would seem that no matter who is manager, you get Don Cooper as part of the deal. He's been with the team to some degree since 1988 and become pitching coach in 2002. They've never looked back.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 12:23 PM) Judging by his last two starts, I'd say they figured out the problem was tipping pitches. Better late than never, right? I'll take what I can get.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 10:04 AM) He didn't get along with Cooper. Who's fault that is, we don't know, but I think you probably have to split it. One stat they had during one of the playoff games showed Shark threw his fastball a very small percentage of the time. Bottom 4 in baseball. I also read his slider was a big problem for him this year. He was hit hard vs. it, and in the past it was a put away pitch. He threw more cutters this year than he's ever thrown before. And he was about as terrible as he's ever been. Someone should have probably said, "You know what? Maybe we need to stop having Jeff throw cutters." Ventura. Cooper. Samardzija himself. File it under the first step to fixing a problem is admitting there is one.

Where does Don Cooper factor into Samardzija's failures this past season? Wherever he lands, it is going to be interesting to see how he does and what he's throwing.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) How about I choose both? A WS win and a sustained run of success? I'd be down with that. One playoff appearance since that World Series. Unlucky in 2006, but otherwise, when did they ever come close to the postseason again? Robin's first season a few years ago.

The players support Ventura publicly. For whatever that is worth. Seems like healthy support. They don't go out of their way to pledge their support, but it seems genuine and not cliché filled sound bytes for the media.

Take a pass here. Not what they need at the moment.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:05 AM) Why is it BS? If you assume he will be a bust, trading him makes a ton of sense. Tim Anderson's K to BB rate for AA is alarming when you project him to the Majors. I know he's new to baseball, and the Sox like those type of toolsy athlete types, but I have reservations as to Anderson being all he can be in the Majors. 114 K to 24 walks. 125 games played. He doesn't have the power to hit like that either. If they trade him, what would they get back is the real question.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) What it shows you is he wasn't fired because he didn't play for the White Sox. It shows you he isn't coming back because it was convenient to let go of the guy who didn't have a contract for next year. If he had one and McEwing or Steverson didn't, one of those guys would have been launched. I think though, they anticipated a possibility of a needed scapegoat years ago, and had the bench coach's contract expire earlier than the others. That's what it boils down to. Parent and Baines gone, but look, we're changing things up! What's sad is there is a portion of the fanbase they're fooling in doing so, but I think the majority of us know it is nothing more than scapegoating, as you said.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:40 AM) Surely you don't think their trade values are anywhere near equal, right? Man, this is really a tough crowd. I obviously do not and never said that. You're looking at the most recent comps, then go upward in terms of value and the return on that value. He's their most valuable asset and probably has the highest trade value of any starter in MLB. That would suggest that a front office would get a seriously valuable return in exchange for him. If they won't do a tear down around him, and we know they won't, they'll just tinker around it and they'll be running in place. What gets you closer to winning a championship, keeping Chris Sale or trading him? It's an easy question with no real easy answer. Of course we don't know if what they got back would work out. That's the risk.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Look at the list of prospects Boston offered Seattle for King Felix, and gave them their choice of 5. While Seattle hasn't won anything since, they were far better off saying no. I don't understand why people want to get rid of stars for prospects. You must love when the Sox lose. Again, I said, does keeping Sale or trading him get you closer to winning a Championship? That's for this brilliant brass to decide. Truthfully, if they did trade Sale, they'd be likely to screw it up and get a Greinke type of return. It's Chris Sale. You dangle the carrot and see what you get offered. If it isn't enough, say no. If this were a smart front office, they could probably rob somebody, but they're not so they probably won't. If you do it right, with his age/talent/contract you could get a ton of value back in return and start moving toward being good again. And no, it's ridiculous to suggest I love when the Sox lose. I know I'm a new poster, but have I been out of line so far this morning to warrant that kind of remark?

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) Sale is a different animal. You'd need at least one impact MLB ready bat. Ala Puig, Arenado, etc. plus a package of at least 3 top prospects. Exactly. Which is what they need. Again, if they want to keep shining the turd, this is where they're going to be and stay. If they can figure out a way to rebuild by keeping Sale, fine. To me, he's their most valuable asset and would yield the most in return.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:35 AM) Joe McEwing never played for the White Sox. Todd Steverson never played for the White Sox. Don Cooper never played for the White Sox. Why weren't they fired? Great question. The Jerry loyalty clause? McEwing came up from Charlotte, no? I don't have an answer. Why was Parent expendable other than not being able to speak Spanish? They couldn't find another role for him in the organization? Did he want one? All great questions. I liked the Steverson hire when they made it. Based on the results, either he's bad at his job or they don't listen to him. They're not blaming him for the lack of getting on base, so it if isn't his fault, whose is it? If the players are professional and not accountable for their production why do you pay a hitting coach? Again, great question. No idea why he's still here. Whoever becomes manager, you get Don Cooper. I don't have an answer for that either. I know that Jeff Samardzija wasn't great but also wasn't as bad until he started throwing under Cooper. It doesn't really matter who they hire as manager. If he can't bring in his own guys and has to keep Cooper, it matters little. The point is Jerry loves his kids. We know this. The organization needs a serious cleansing from top to bottom. If we're going to live off of one championship that was ten years ago, cool. Bring in people who know what they're doing so we can win more. There are people all over the game that know the information, how to use it and can at least attempt to put the team in position to be good and stay good. We're seeing nothing but business as usual to this point. Look outside of your own circle and actually interview people for these jobs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) Garza netted the Cubs Justin Grimm, Carl Edwards and Mike Olt. Not exactly earthshattering or franchise changing. He also cost them Chris Archer. So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 08:57 AM) He didn't get fired because he never played for the White Sox. I do agree, it was pretty much a PR move, and a move made because his was the contract that was up. It does seem strange, all the other contracts including Robin's went through next year. I wonder why Parent's did not? Maybe he as the bench coach was identified as the potential scapegoat a couple of years ago. As for Sandy or anyone else, it would seem with a staff that are all entering their final seasons under contract, you would be gambling on either a big season or a promise of getting the job if things didn't go well to take a job. I thought Ibanez, who has been mentioned as a possibility, could be added in Harold's place, but the more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me. This guy would probably also have to be a bench coach candidate. Why would you take an assistant hitting coach position with a lame duck staff if you are a guy who is interviewing for managerial jobs? He probably gets paid pretty well on Fox. Most teams hire guys they are familiar with, and a lot of times it means ex-players. Theo hired Hoyer to be the GM because he worked with him in Boston. The fact is, the Sox know Sandy pretty well, better than probably any team other than the Indians, and maybe the Braves because of John Hart. I realize that, but it doesn't mean he was less expendable. Harold Baines got to "step down" and take some bulls*** ambassador role or something, right? Parent? Gone. Theo hiring Jed in the front office is one thing. The whole reason they're there in the first place was due to an ownership change. My saving thought with Alomar is he was more Cleveland than Chicago and played there when they were winning. That supersedes his White Sox tenure.

They have to ask themselves who their assets are. I would say Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon. They have to decide are they closer to a World Series with these guys or will they get closer by trading any of them to get assets in return? Their farm system is weak, let's be honest. Tim Anderson is the prize and is K to BB rate in AA doesn't translate well to the Majors. He's another toolsy athlete they want to transform into a baseball player. We know how that story ends, Sox fans. The only guy I see them moving is Quintana, and that's only because Hahn said a few months ago they will need to trade a position of strength to help in areas of weakness. They have some good, young pitching with friendly contracts. They have no infielders who can hit. Quintana is the odd man out. They won't trade Sale, Abreu or Rodon. Quintana will get you a good return, but he won't reboot your system the way Sale would. Look at what the Cubs got for Garza and what the Phillies got for Hamels. Chris Sale would yield a bounty of young prospects that could get you going again. You need not an ace pitcher when you're losing 90 games a year. They've wasted all Sale has done by being incredibly poor around him.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 08:49 AM) i hope you didn't get me wrong. everything you said, does make a point. i just can't see the clearing thru the forest. there i admit it. but it appears as though you are addressing a situation all the while the problem starts higher. that is my opinion. good post. It sucks from top to bottom. I realize the issue starts higher and acknowledged it in the first post. Robin Ventura is not a good manager with all that being said. He has inept, enabled, nepotism fueled dysfunction above him. Even with that, he is responsible for the lineup and for decision making in games. He's proven he's not adept at making those decisions. They need a Blackhawk type of cleansing. Really is that simple. Jerry and Kenny are bad. Robin is bad. I really have no idea what Rick Hahn is good at if Kenny has the final say on everything. All these guys being bad at that they do is not mutually exclusive. Give Robin the Royals and see if he's any better at the decisions he is responsible for making. He doesn't strike me as an enlightened guy. He's a former player from an era gone by that has the loyalty of his superiors because he played for them years ago.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 12:52 AM) In most organizations, yes. They are protected by the Reinsdorf loyalty program. Correct. That's why firing Mark Parent is nothing more than P.R. junk. He was expendable because he never played for the White Sox and doesn't really do anything, including speak Spanish. So hire Sandy Alomar Jr. because he played 265 games with the club. I actually think it is a good move, but the only reason it is happening is because he played for the club. Bottom line. Makes me wonder how Parent got hired in the first place, to be honest.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 08:38 AM) ref RV, i am an RV fan, mostly as a player. i like what he brought to the game for the sox. but all this is not his fault. ref the bold, i will go one further, would or could Maddon have manage this team better, if so by how much??? with the players assembled. He's not a player anymore. What's in the past is in the past. It's not like the franchise has had a strong history of success. It's like the Cub fans that were dying to hire Girardi or Sandberg to be their manager. Having played for the club should not matter. Get a guy who is good at the job. I'm not saying it is all his fault. To this point, he has proven to me to be a bad manager at best, regardless of what he has to work with. He's part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

Start with Kenny. He has to go. To a greater extent, Jerry does too. The two of them could care less about the farm system. There's no revenue in it. They've been tinkering with the same bad team now for years, adding free agents and trading for veterans while all the while not fluxing any kind of talent into the big club from the farm. They're hellbent on pitching but have no one who can field or hit. In a hitter friendly ballpark they play 81 games in no less. Rick Hahn seems like a smart guy, but if he has Kenny stepping on his head, it doesn't really matter how smart he is. Then you have Robin, who while being a total waste of a manager, has this dysfunction above him. Could Joe Maddon manage a team with this kind of front office? He's worked for Andrew Friedman and Theo Epstein. I'd say that helps matters for him, and while Maddon is a good manager, imagine having brain trusts like those helping make your job easier. Jerry hires his kids. Bulls, White Sox, doesn't matter. You've played for one of his teams? Great. You're hired.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) Do the Sox hire anyone that hasn't been on the team at some point? Nope. And they've been such a successful franchise, it stands to reason why they'd keep it a family affair. I seriously don't understand why they do this every time they go to hire anyone for anything.

You keep Santos. At this point Quentin, Danks, Floyd and Thornton should all be on the table for position talent. Kenny is far too pitcher happy, so I suspect that's what they'll be going for.