The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:38 PM) Brewers probably want nothing to do with Floyd. They'd be more interested in possible prosects the Sox could get for Floyd, and even then, I don't think Floyd gets you top 75 prospects. If you look at some of the names the Brewers are asking for (Manny Machado, Teherean, etc.), a lot of these trade packages suggested for Greinke on this site make no sense. No team is giving up that kind of prospect and the Brewers know it. I think they're trying to set themselves up to get 3 or 4 very nice, high ceiling prospects instead of 1 or 2.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:29 PM) The downgrade from ADA to JorDanks is much greater than replacing someone like Floyd with Greinke. Boston is supposedly shopping Cody Ross so that would be a potential get. I've wanted Cody here for ages. Then there's Upton out there, but how realistic would that be? Rios would have to slide back to CF, which I think he could do without issue as he's "there" mentally this year (when he's not it doesn't matter where you play him IMO). I agree with what you are saying though. We would need to back such a move up with another one for an OF in order to make a net upgrade, and then considering the cost of both moves, you'd have to wonder if there would be any point. DeAza is a really nice player. He's just a solid-if-unspectacular type, which is great to have because you can extend those players to team-friendly long-term contracts. But on the other end of it, he is a very valuable piece without a star ceiling, and if you can move him and get a star back, it's hard not to make that move. I wouldn't do it though without assurances that the player we'd get back would stick around beyond the season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) Originally I thought I would be in favor of moving Q because he could be a flash in the pan...but the more and more I see of him, I am more impressed. I don't know that Greinke would be any better than Quintana, and I don't know that Greinke would be any more poised in a playoff situation than Quintana. What we do know, is we could control Quintana for about 150-200 more starts before he hits free agency, while we'd only control Greinke for about 10-12. I just can't give that up for a guy as that is as big of a wild card as Greinke is. His start against the Yankees really won me over. The way he was able to recover from early damage and keep it close enough for the offense and get the win is exactly the type of thing you see from a veteran. With his terrific command, multiple pitches, ability to get the groundball DP when he needs it, the cutter in on the hands again and again and again... I'm convinced that anyone who isn't confident in this kid's future just isn't watching. He has the ability plus all the intangibles to go with it. He has a good move to first, can field his position, works quicks, throws strike 1 - this is the Columbian Mark Buehrle.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) Everyone here loves Quintana's story, but you have to think this is the sell-high moment for him. Players who can do what he is doing stay good, same with Viciedo, and dumping 5 years of those players for 2 months of anyone is pretty much the exact opposite of selling high. Of course that doesn't mean they'll both be great players, but those are the types you keep and take your chances on. Those two should only be out there in a potential deal if it is for a young, cheap, controllable star. OTOH, it is always a great idea to churn out young closers and deal them for better players. Jones is fine taking over for Reed; it's not like Reed is Sale-like or even Sergio-like is his abilities. He seems like an average closer, and while that has value, a shot a Championship is worth it IMO.

Selling high on Reed or Jones is a smart thing to do. Viciedo and Quintana are way too much, but after seeing him myself, I am convinced the national prospect evaluators were wrong about Eduardo & I do think he can hit enough in regular playing time to stick at SS. If Kenny offered Floyd + Reed or Jones + Eduardo + a top prospect then that would be worth a good deal more to the Brewers than a sandwich pick and a late first/high second.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Jim Bowden's new ESPN Insider article..... "If I had to rank the suitors in the order of the likelihood they get Greinke, it would go like this: 1. Rangers 2. Angels 3. Braves 4. Nationals 5. Blue Jays 6. Dodgers 7. Orioles " And this is why you don't subscribe to ESPN Insider.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) I wonder when Ozzie gets fired. We won in 05 cause of Cooper, not Ozzie. Ozzie was a huge reason we won in '05. Getting control of a Major League clubhouse and winning the respect of the players is the biggest thing a manager & coaching staff can do, and Ozzie was great at that. It was actually masterful the way he attracted all the media attention to himself during the Sox epic near-collapse during Cleveland's hot streak that year. Ozzie's contributions should never be diminished. That said, Ozzie turned into an egomaniac here. The 2008 and beyond Ozzie became worse as time went on and totally lost the clubhouse. Ozzie lost his respect for his job and his respect for the game. Ozzie & Cora however are still (and this isn't saying much) better game managers than Ventura & Parent are, but the difference is the Sox will play for Robin & his guys while they'd only tank it for Ozzie. But yeah, Ozzie was hired because his race & colorful nature were expected to draw fans in Miami; no other team in baseball would have hired Ozzie after last season. The novelty wore off quickly however with the Castro comments and it's clear his head is on the chopping block. And when it officially rolls, I'd like to see him cut the umbilical on Oney, learn a little humility, and return to the Sox where he belongs in some type of ambassador role. His #13 belongs on the fence if he'd quit being such an egocentric asshole.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 11:54 AM) How about Floyd, Beckham and Castro to Milw for Greinke and Aoki? I'd play Escobar at 2B. IMO Floyd + Reed + Thompson + Castro/Molina/Santiago (their pick) for Greinke + KRod with the Sox assuming all the salary (can they do that?) followed by Humber + Mitchell + prospects to SEA for League + Vargas Greinke-Sale-Q-Peavy-Vargas Jones is the closer with KRod & League as insurance Danks is the wildcard... a Danks return could send Sale back to the pen to finish the year as a secret weapon, which would be a way to limit his innings.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) Agree 100%. I'm frustrated with Beckham too, but the old adage is true, "defense usually wins in the long run". A nice compromise would be a veteran utility player who would give Beckham a couple days off per week plus take Escobar's playing time to stay fresh, and have him pinch hit for Gordon late. Who that would be I don't know, but he could have Hudson's roster spot.

Me too. Er, me three.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) He may not have great stuff, but how many guys with great stuff have we seen not put it together in this organization? His pitching acumen and stones are off the charts, IMO. Those two qualities, combined with his average stuff will make him a very solid #2 or #3 pitcher, IMHO. Elite command of 5 pitches >>>> spotty command of mid-upper 90's heat + inconsistent if eye-popping breaking ball and Actual results on a major league field >>>>> perfect future world performance scenarios dreamed up by talent evaluators The other GMs can keep their prospects because Quintana is here to stay, and rightfully so. Thanks a lot, Cashman. Really appreciate it.