The Ultimate Champion

The guy is paid a lot of money to play baseball. It's not like he's been driving jerry reinsdorf around in a limo all day, kissing his feet, shining his shoes, cutting his steak for him, etc. It's also not like he's been selling hotdogs in the stands. Don't feel too sorry for him. The only reason Jose is still here is because Hahn never was offered a haul for him. If that had happened, he'd have been gone a long time ago. He's been a good player and a great leader on a shitty team. Now he should go win elsewhere. I like Abreu a lot, but I want to see him traded. I want the Sox to give ABs to someone else who they can make a decision on. I want the Sox to get prepared for 2021. Get started now. Can Collins actually develop an approach? I'm impressed with the speed of his bat and how long he can see the ball, but he has no approach at all. Something has to give there. Even giving AJ Reed a shot, that's fine also. It's also fine to put Eloy there a bit, give Yermin Mercedes a shot, etc. It's fine to use the DH slot to rest people and make some decisions on our 4th OF going forward (i.e. Engel vs. Cordell). There are some ways to use Jose's ABs that at least help the decision making process this year. Then, next year, hopefully we'll have a couple prospects to bat there until Vaughn arrives, but I think Vaughn may be a midseason guy in 2020. Get some more pieces for Abreu, move on, etc.

Seriously, legit question: let's say this deal is actually feasible (I would be skeptical): Gio + Bummer for Pache, Anderson, Wright, Folty. Does anyone actually not pull the trigger on that? I do so immediately, jumping up and down and just elated, overjoyed, thrilled and absolutely optimistic about the Sox future.

If I could get Pache + Wright + Anderson for Gio I would drive him to the airport. If I could get Pache + Wright + Anderson + Folty for Gio + Bummer I would drive them both to the airport. ATL's system beats the holy dogshit out of the Sox system and now we all get to see why. Before when there were questions about whose system was better, the answer was always ATL because of the depth. The Sox system was front-loaded due to the big 3 trades. But other than that, the Sox system has been bad. Madrigal, Robert, and Vaughn seem to be the only "jewels" of the Sox farm after Tim Anderson came through. ATL has a bunch of guys who we'd be nuts about if we had them on our side. As far as what is "sustainable", I will say this: 1) Our FO is not going to hand out big money 5+ year contracts to TOR starters. It will not happen. 2) The only way for us to get 5+ year control TOR SPs is to a) trade for them, or b) draft them. In the case of a, we do not have the depth on the farm to make that happen. We do not have enough impact pieces. We actually need all of our pieces, specifically Madrigal, Robert, and Vaugh, to pan out, along with a full recovery from Kopech, and we need Kopech and Cease to pan out, too. We also need Reynaldo to take a big step forward. I think the kind of deal I am advocating, most GMs would not want to make. But AA is the guy who took on like 800 billion dollars and sent 47 players to the Marlins for half their team, and he's the same guy who traded for Donaldson, Tulo, etc. and he traded Noah Syndergaard for RA Dickey for fucks sake. He seems to be just like Dave Dombrowski is, when it comes to wanting to make that really big deal. And as far as what is sustainable in contention, man, I do not know how people can be so optimistic about the Sox ATM. We are offense-heavy, and we really need our few big-time SP pieces to all hit. And then even if that all happens, we do not have the depth to make a few big deals. I do not want to jump into the gun fight a year too early with half a clip of bullets. I'd rather jump in a year later with a whole pile of ammo. If we try to contend too early and lose -- just like we should expect, because we do not have enough pitching -- then we trap our selves in a spot where we can't act. Once you start to "win," you can't stop, backtrack, and do more "rebuilding." I personally do not think we have enough pieces yet, and I don't think the farm is strong on the bottom. I would not be interested in trading players like Sheets at all, and dealing away the few guys who might turn into something. I'd rather keep adding to the picture for at least 1 more season. Then, go into 2021 looking for a deep playoff run. If you traded Gio this year for 2 guys who debuted for you this year, 2021 could still be Kopech and Cease's 2nd full season, and Reynaldo's 4th full season, and then the 2 guys you get would be in their 2nd full season also. That's a winning formula IMO. Also I just think that if AA is willing to put Pache on the table that's a move we need to try to make. An OF of Pache-Robert in CF-RF has the potential to be amazing.

^Oops. Well, I still stand by my major point: Abreu's value to the Sox is nowhere near what his value would be to another team that believes he helps them get into the playoffs.

"He is far more valuable to the Sox than any other team right now due to what he provides the clubhouse." I see this a lot. But it is not true, especially in the case of Boston. The value of Boston getting back into the playoffs in Mookie's walk year and after the Sale extension and Eovaldi deal, etc., is way, way, more important to Boston than Jose's leadership values are to the Sox. Dombrowski knows he needs to get back to the playoffs this year. The value of Abreu in that middle of the order is going to be worth giving up something from the farm that is far away, for sure. This season is a really, really big deal for Boston. If they miss the playoffs, their fans aren't going to be happy, and it's not going to be getting a whole lot easier to win that division in the future with the way their young players are getting paid.

As I said above, I would trade for Russell just to DFA him. He is salary. The key is that you help the Cubs out by taking on some bad salary and keeping them under the tax. You give them useful players. In Chatwood's case, you take on his 2020 season and give them more FA room. In turn, you try to get some talent. Other salary ideas with Boston which someone else mentioned is Castillo. Also they have Pearce. Yasmany Tomas in AZ might get you something. I would love to buy low on Jeff Hoffman but I don't know how we make a deal with them as a noncontender. Taking on Ian Desmond's contract? I would not touch Wade Davis' contract with a 10 ft. pole.

Do you guys really, honestly believe he is worth nothing? It was reported last year that the Astros strongly considered giving up Martes for Avi, even though Avi was having a very disappointing season overall. And I know Avi is an OF etc etc but he's not exactly a GGer out there, and his value was mostly in his bat, I think both Boston and Houston would like to have him. I am not a pro scout, etc., but I am going to bet that the Sox have guys who know the lower levels of both Boston and Houston's farm very well, and I can't imagine there isn't an interesting upside-type player out there for Abreu. His power numbers are very good and in a tougher lineup he's especially going to be a force. I'd take Groome from Boston, and I'm not sure what HOU has to offer, but I would take pitching. I think there is a bit of truth to the "leadership" talk. I also think there's a lot of bullshit in that speak, which is a GM trying to let it be publicly known that he wants some better offers. But of the truth of the leadership talk, I am going to guess that the Sox (at least hopefully) don't want TA to be the "clubhouse leader," and that Yoan (who I would imagine is the guy they ideally would want to be the clubhouse leader) isn't really the type to do it. And of course McCann has only been here half a season and is only under control for 1 more season. I do wonder if, legitimately, the Sox think about Robert coming up, and they want Abreu to kind of temper his enthusiasm a bit and not let him get a superstar attitude going when he gets here. Obviously TA isn't going to do anything to stop that, and if Yoan isn't that type of leader, maybe they feel they need Abreu to stick around and keep the next wave of kids coming up in check. Still, even if there is some truth to that above, they should be able to bring a guy in over the offseason for that purpose, and the manager is supposed to be able to handle that stuff.

This is the last thread I am going to make for now. Simple poll. I answered Yes all 3 times. I love Jose's contributions but his leadership -- if necessary -- should be replaced by a veteran bench player, like an Ian Kinsler in a bench role, or something like that. We don't need to give him ABs any more. He shouldn't be the 1B or DH on the next Sox team that contends for a pennant IMO.

Any thought of giving up a bunch of relievers for a guy with less than 5.5 years control who is going to be in arbitration before we're a threat to win a title is a very bad idea. We need to definitely not go after Benintendi. Our relievers should be shopped for multiple prospects who have higher ceilings as position players, starting pitchers, or closers. We need a Luzardo, Felipe Vazquez, we need to find a Van Wagonen or whatever to give us a Kelenic, etc. Also I am going to guess that if Benintendi is out there, Dombrowski is trying to get an ace similar to trading Austin Jackson in the Price deal or similar to the Cespedes for Lester deal. He's probably trying to get creative for a big name SP. We do not have that unless we talk Gio, and there is no way I would trade Gio to Boston with their system the way it is. I would however be interested in picking up Groome from them. We can eat Pearce's shitty deal, give them Goins who would be useful for them, and some other small pieces if necessary, on top of an Abreu deal. Groome's ceiling is worth it if he's healthy, though the more we would add, the more pieces we would need back. And I am actually unhappy to see them DFA Nunez because his bad deal and Pearce's bad deal would have been a good start to an Abreu deal.

List some bad contract deals that you would like to see but which you know will almost never be considered by our shitty ownership. I will start with Tyler Chatwood. The Cubs have some interesting young pitching further away on the farm, most notably Brailyn Marquez. They also have a lot of needs. I would be interested in assuming Chatwood and Russell, and then DFAing Russell, to basically pick up Marquez. I think the Cubs could really use Leury, Jay, and our relievers, though I don't know what the price should be. If I could get Marquez by taking on that salary and giving up 2 or even all 3 of Leury, Jay, and Marshall or Fry I would do that, but would probably want a smaller piece in return. Anyway, I think Chatwood is a decent bet to get "fixed" enough to bring back some value as a closer next deadline. Maybe a top-15-20 guy in a good system and half a season's salary relief could be had if we put Chatwood in the closers role for about a year and worked with him a bit.

Seriously let's say you are AA and the guy in Detroit is asking for Ian Anderson and Folty plus for Boyd and Greene. Really? If that kind of talk is on the table, I am putting Gio out there who actually has the pedigree and I'm putting Colome and Bummer on the table also. Similarly, imagine being the Dodgers and you're getting told you'll have to give up the world for some rentals in SF. If I were them I'd rather go for a big fish. Legitimately, if you are a contender, what is out there this year pretty much sucks and it looks like you're really going to have to overpay for the rentals. This is a bad year for the Sox to not have much good to sell, IMO.

So I would like to see the Sox try to make 2 megadeals: (1) Giolito + 1 or both of Colome + Bummer to the Braves **only***. I would try to get Pache, Anderson, and 3 more players which would be 2 SPs and an OF like Waters, or 3 SPs. I am not interested in doing this trade with another team, unless the Rays want to get kinda crazy. That said, the Braves are led by AA who was the guy that made a whole pile of huge moves in Toronto, and just seems to love this kind of deal. (2) Anderson to LAD or MIL for a haul. I am not sure if there are other fits, but I am a little bit tired of watching Anderson's act and I definitely believe he could be replaced in a way that only makes the team better. I wouldn't trade him for scraps, but from the Dodgers, Anderson for Lux + Ruiz + May is a nice deal. I think TA's general bullshit fits well in LA with the rest of the general bullshit they do out there. Oh and May would have to shave that ugly mop here which is great. From the BrewCrew, I bet they would give up Turang and pitching. Ashby as a 3rd piece sounds interesting to me.

I think the Sox should make another megadeal. Here are my reasons: 1) The Sox need impact starting pitching. 2) The Sox do not have impact starting pitching down on the farm. 3) Most likely, the Sox will need 6-8 impact starting pitching prospects who are near-MLB ready in order to get 4 SPs who are #3s or better, and then probably one will end up as a reliever. 4) The Sox will not spend big money and years on an impact SP in free agency. There is another thread that suggests otherwise but as far as I know the same trash that has been running things is still running things, so yeah, that's not happening, 5) The contention window can not reasonably be expected to begin until at least 2021. It is unreasonable to expect Kopech returning from TJ and Cease, both in their first full years, to anchor a rotation that competes legitimately into October. It is stupid to even expect that. Reasonably, we have to assume these guys will be learning and developing while stuck on innings limits. 6) I do not even want to try to contend until 2021, for the above reasons. I would like to officially "contend" when the team has a legitimate shot at winning a WS. I don't want to see a young bunch of tired and overthrowing young pitchers trying to turn a seasonal overachievement into something impossibly more. I'd rather lose the divison in 2020 and come out of ST in 2021 after a big offseason looking to win a title, with the young core freshly rested, healthy, experienced, and hungry. I believe that this rebuild shouldn't be "rushed across the finish line" a year early, even though I expect it given the car full of clowns running the show here.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 05:01 PM) Good stuff there, Ultimate. TYVM! I will rate your profile 5 stars! Above in this thread hi8is mocked my long, essay-like posting habits so I'm glad someone at least reads them (other than caulfield who reads everything). But he's right though, my posts are seriously FRAT most the time. Oh well. I've been stuck in front of my computer a lot more than usual these last couple weeks having to/choosing to work on some things I'm not really that good at/don't want to do, and so I start on/resume something, then I just click on SoxTalk and start thinking about baseball and piss the time away. Then I get all in depth about it and really, it's just all an escape for me, when my brain doesn't want to focus on what it really needs to focus on (work, life) I open my browser and go here. But I really do need to stop posting here, I do it way too much now and really sports just don't matter anyway. I always know that, but then sometimes I f*** up and start thinking about baseball again. What a happy little escape sports are. I know I can't be the only one that thinks that way. So anyway I'm glad someone reads some of this s*** I type. It's funny because I think the nature of this thread dovetails fairly well with what I'm saying. Sports are so easy to be opinionated about, you can lash out at, defend, define, detail in depth, anything you like right on down the rabbithole until you're just lost in it. But it really doesn't matter. Matt Davidson really doesn't matter, neither did Reed, this trade like the majority of baseball trades, 10 years from now is porbably best described as a non-event. But holy s*** can these things be drug out into the open and beaten down into pulp & pudding. That's one thing I'm great at. Hahn's doing a fine job overall, nothing wrong with him at all, and there was never anything wrong with KW either IMO. But b****ing about it all and arguing over it all is at least something, it's at least engaging if not always fun, and seems a lot more benign in terms of its overall counterproductivity than it really is. It's just funny because no matter what there is so much depth in baseball and so much history and it's such a massive part of our culture that it's completely impossible to ever permanently resolve anything, like all these themes just keep repeating themselves year after year, and somehow the subject matter seems fresh when its really not. The game of baseball is really bottomless, but rather than a pit its more like a gopher hole where eventually you're right back on the surface looking at the same thing from a different vantage point. But it's just a total waste of time really. Maybe it's just best to be a casual fan, and never pay attention to anything, never look at anything in detail, because then you don't get sucked in. But then you could still get sucked into something else. Baseball is my little sickness but goddamn what a waste of time. At least its not video games & porn, or drugs or tv or something. Not as bad but still a waste of time. I've now just wasted whatever time it took my to type this, f*** it I'm going to make some coffee. So thanks for reading this stuff, I think I'm going to quit this site for a while. I'm sure Hahn is going to be really busy & if we're going to spend some money we've got a real shot at contention with Danks not in the rotation & Rodon in there instead. December will be fun.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Yeah I guess I could have just posted "poop," sorry.

For all we know the Davidson deal was a blessing in disguise, kind of along the line DA was talking about earlier, how one move affects another. Davidson hitting .199 in Charlotte is bad but none of us give a s*** what the Knights do, we just care about what he does in MLB. But even if he hit .299 with the same or better power numbers and a lot better contact then it still wouldn't necessarily make it as a MLB player. However had Davidson put out a very good year instead of a very bad year then Hahn probably keeps a spot open on the 2015 MLB roster for him, and who knows, that could have ended up a mistake. As it is now, Davidson's bad year keeps him out of the picture & makes Hahn think about making another move he otherwise wouldn't have thought about making. If that move, then, is the one that really makes us better then how much all things considered has Davidson's bad AAA season hurt us? If Davidson or any other MiLB is going to bomb out on *us* before we are able to trade him and capitalize on his present value, then ideally that bombing occurs away from the MLB club where it actually has an on-field impact.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 12:20 PM) Perhaps I should have said irrelevant when it comes to defense. So you think Robin should be s***canned but we should hire a guy who's defense has been MUCH worse defensively? As you can tell by my signature I firmly believe that managers simply put their players in a position to win and it's up to the players to execute. I think that you need a guy who can: 1) deal with the clubhouse, get the players to play for him/not quit on him, deal with personal stuff, have player conversations 2) deal with the media/keep the players focusing on baseball as much as possible, keep stuff out of & away from the media people 3) communicate with the other coaches & FO 4) properly identify the strengths and weaknesses of his own players, know when the challenge them, who to challenge, what to expect Player A to do and what to demand Player A do as well as what to never ask him to do, etc., and this is true whether you're a winner like the Tigers or a loser like us 5) know what kind of team you have & what kind of team you need to be, and try to do that 6) managers don't necessarily "win" ballgames but they can try to put their players in as many advantageous situations as possible to make the best use of their abilities as possible 7) be open-minded enough to recognize when and where to draw lines between old, crusty & ineffective baseball procedures (like managing for 8 innings as though the game matters & then turning your brain off in the 9th & "living and dying" with your closer) and things which are new but not necessarily better, i.e. overuse of the shift That's a lot of stuff & probably a good amount of it is trial & error and you make mistakes and learn. Maybe I am unfairly harsh on Robin, admittedly I haven't followed a lot of the action this year so maybe he has gotten better. Of those things it would be hard to tell which ones he's very good at and where he's deficient because most of that stuff is hidden from view. I've mentioned before though that if game management is a major issue then maybe bringing in a new bench coach, or maybe even a second bench coach would be valuable. All a manger really needs to do re: game decisions is dictate them, but other people can more or less make them.

If Hahn could go back in time and not make this trade I'm sure he would, but I'm also sure he'd have traded Reed for someone else & had he the benefit of hindsight he'd acquire somebody's Montas or something, some kid who gets it/turns it on out of nowhere and shoots up the rankings. That's not realistic though, obviously. The Davidson deal makes me think of Marcus Semien. You often have two types of prospects, the "baseball player" types and the "toolshed" types, and although some are more towards the middle it seems like most are more one than the other. Davidson was more the tools type than the baseball type given the swing & focus on raw power. Semien is more the baseball player type with solid skills all over the place but not really anything that wows you. Reed's value was probably good enough to bring back either type of player - and forget about the Top 100 s***, because even though Davidson made the list and Semien didn't it doesn't mean that a lot of scouts wouldn't have preferred Semien to Davidson. Now I know Hahn couldn't have traded Reed for Semien because he's already ours, but the point I'm making here is that there are often 2 roads to travel when trading a player like Reed (i.e. a non-star, above average closer with stuff more like a quality SU guy than an electric closer). You aren't getting some great prospect without any major flaws/question marks, and generally you're either going to get a player like a Davidson or a Semien. Both can turn into above-average MLB players if everything goes right, but in the end, neither generally make it. Hahn went with more of the ceiling type but had he picked up a Semien type, a "baseball player" type instead then Semien is a perfect example of another guy who so far hasn't made it and didn't light the world on fire in AAA. In the end Hahn got fair value at the time. He made a move he needed to make at the time, and because young players aren't free and he didn't have much to trade, he gave up Reed. Hahn correctly observed that, at the time, Gillaspie didn't look like a long-term solution, neither did injured Morel obviously, so he identified an area to improve and tried to improve it. Further, in giving up Reed he didn't set the forward progress of the organization back; Reed just isn't that kind of talent & there's no reason another strike-thrower closer like Petricka can't do just as good of a job as Reed would have. The downside on the deal was pretty low, and right here we are sitting pretty much right on the downside of it, and really we're not in some horrible spot now because of it. Hahn made the right move at the time & it didn't work, so what, that happens, and it's going to happen a lot whenever you are acquiring unproven MiLB players. Usually they are going to bust.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) Sox have the same fielding% as Oakland and Pittsburgh, Cleveland has the worst....again, the managers of those teams have all won manager of the year the last 2 years. I don't even know how UZR is calculated so I didn't quote it, but the Indians (Lead by the guy a lot of guys here wanted) and Pittsburgh have worse ratings. Sox -38.6 Pitt -41.0 Indians -67.3. So Terry Francona, a guy a lot of people here wish was our manager, and a 2x WS Champ is leading a team that is worse defensively. Is Tito a bad manager or are managers pretty much irrelevant? It's not an either/or thing. Francona is probably a pretty good manager overall. Managers, simply from a clubhouse attitude/atmosphere type of thing, cannot possibly be irrelevant. Look at what happened to Boston's clubhouse after Francona was canned and Bobby Valentine came in and tried to split up the cliques. Look at what happened to this team's clubhouse in Ozzie's last couple years. And that's Robin's specialty supposedly, but managing the game counts too, especially when a team is actually good enough (and posters here are right when they say Robin couldn't manage this team into a winner anyway). I think at best this guy needs to be s***canned before we try to win anything, and maybe at that point a vet manager like Francona would work well. Unless Robin gets a lot better in other areas of course.

Admittedly I haven't been watching a ton of White Sux baseball this year, usually I'll just watch an inning or PA or maybe a couple innings at any given time and I'll have the radio on otherwise if at all. So I'm not sure what the deal is here but a couple weeks ago I looked up Q's season numbers and was suprised to see he looked like he'd miss or maybe just barely hit the 200IP plateau this year. I know he's had some bad starts like the Royals game where he gave up lik 45 runs in 2 innings, and I know he has his games where the pitch count goes way up early but I certainly hope Robin hasn't been pulling this guy around the 100 pitch mark routinely. Even if it comes with a slight increase in ERA and decrease in peripheral stats, in a rebuilding year the manager needs to do everything he can to get someone like Q to 220IP. Again I haven't been watching enough to know when Robin has been pulling him. Maybe fangraphs has pitches per start or something? Robin famously didn't trust Quintana much at all his first season but he has shown some continued faith in Sale this year (which I like, even though Sale is faltered in some of those situations, because it's necessary for his development). So maybe Robin has given him a long leash & Q just hasn't been quite that good, but if not, and Robin has been cutting him short based on pitch count then that's a pretty big developmental error on his part IMO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) Hey it would be great to have Mike Trout and Gio Stanton hitting behind Jose too, but that isn't really realistic either. I know

I agree with wite. Continuing to build our pitching is the best way to make us a contender. A better starting staff makes the bullpen better and requires the offense to do less and also it makes our defense more valuable. I came up with a Danks to Pirates hypothetical a while ago here, only problem was I had the Pirates giving us players they don't have. But we want Pedro Alvarez or something? Well, they can take Danks, we will give them lots of cash on that deal, they can give us Alvarez & Tabata's bad deal, and then we'll give them prospects or soemthing to make up the difference. They might be able to use him with Liriano leaving & Danks could probably use the NL right about now. Great match IMO. Okay so back to the world of make believe, imagine what it would be like for a lineup to have to deal with Sale's motion one day and then Cueto the next, and just to add a little extra there, let's say the Sox call up Danish late in the year and use him as a righty specialist/setup guy to acclimate him to the big leagues. That's like funky motion heaven. s***, pick up a reliever out of Japan while you're at it and play George Clinton around the park. Brooks Boyer wouldn't think of that though, we'd sign some guy named Takisumi and all Brooksy would come up with is OEO Takisooooomio or something like that. Anyway I like to pretend.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 04:27 PM) It would make no sense for the Sox to trade for Cueto with him being a FA after 2015. He's going to be seeking something in the range of 25 mil per year. I've heard Boston is a possible spot for him, which would make sense as they have a ton of money/prospects to use to acquire players. God I would hate to see that. I'd rather he go the Tigers than Boston. I hate Boston.

I'm going to take my shoes off. Matter of fact, I'm going to take my sweater off, too. Let's just pretend for a second. It's okay to pretend. I like to pretend, and I bet you like to pretend too. Lots of boys and girls like to play pretend. Oh look here's the little trolley, why don't we take a visit to The World of Make Believe... Sale - Game 1 Cueto - Game 2 Quintana - Game 3 Rodon/Noesi/whoever is healthy & hot - Game 4, and if not, maybe Sale on short rest (why not?) Yeah. Now lets take the pants off too. That would be so FUN. OMG. Even just the regular season would be a blast watching that rotation.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Phillips is a very bad option for the Sox moving forward. He turned 33 in June, is signed for $39 million over the next 3 seasons, and this is the 3rd year in a row (base year of 2011) where his numbers have decreased. He is just not a good player anymore. I love the idea of acquiring a guy like Cueto (who is getting absolutely no love for the Cy Young and should be - 2.33 ERA, 3.29 FIP, 3.24 xFIP, leading the NL in IP) or Latos, but at what cost? A guy like that is going to cost a hell of a lot plus you'd have to re-sign him following the season. Yeah I was just thinking, maybe we could take that in exchange for a lighter prospect load. I really agree that this is a long shot. We'd give up a lot, maybe take back a bad contract too, and then whoever we traded for would just sign elsewhere. Why is Homer Bailey on the 60 day DL though? Maybe that's more of an option. Anyway Latos would be nice and Cueto would be just dreamy .... creamy dreamy ....