The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) Bruce Levine is reporting Dunn will retire after this season. Good luck to him! Finishing his career in a s*** hole is the perfect ending for a turd.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) If you can tell me what happened to Danks without writing him a $28.5 million check to play someone else, I'll agree. But that's the case for any of those expensive free agent righties. IIRC it's about a $10.5M paycheck broken in half over 2 years to make him a 2-year, $9M LHSP on another team. That's doable I think. Will the Sox penny pinch & act like babies about it, and cry poor again? Probably, but it's doable I'd bet.

QUOTE (daggins @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Sale Latos Quintana Noesi Rodon Looks good, rite? I think Montas is a reliever long term. Jury is out on Danish If that's next year's rotation then we had BETTER have a Major League catcher behind the plate. That's a WS contender with a quality bullpen and a couple extra pieces on offense.

Per MLBTR we now have another spot on the 40. Rodon or other?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 01:16 PM) The only reason we need to know that this year is if he's out of options, and frankly, him having success in September would be a decent confidence builder but you wouldn't give him LF next year based on that until you can see him finally find a groove at Charlotte. Won't be mad if he comes up, but do object to "we need to know if he's viable" right now. He's not going to be in anyone's way if he does another year at Charlotte. Or if the FO is out of patience. We should expect a great deal of turnover on our 40-man roster this year. We have a DH spot to fill, a starting OF slot to fill, a 2B slot to fill, a C slot to fill, we need at least 1 SP and pretty much all of a bullpen, AND we may need a SS if we trade Alexei over the offseason. We'll have our own MiLB players we will have to add to the roster, and in the case of a potential Alexei trade as a prime example, we should expect to exchange 1 spot on the 40 for 2 or maybe even 3 spots of the 40. We will also probably take a guy in the Rule-5 (at least it's possible) and we will have high position in the claiming order. And we're going to be active on the FA market it appears. In short, players like Mitchell aren't going to be necessary on the 40-man at all unless 1) we think they are future everyday players, or 2) we think they are quality bench pieces right now (and in his case, Mitchell vs. Danks vs. Sierra vs. others should result in at least a couple roster casualities). Basically we've been around the block with Mitchell before. Is he for real? Probably not, he's very likely just another massive bust in the first round. But if he plays well in September in the Majors then maybe we trade Danks or Sierra for cash considerations somewhere and give him a shot at a 4th OF slot hoping maybe one day he can be more. But if Mitchell looks lost and stubborn (again) after a promotion then it's time to hold the value of the 40-man roster spot as an asset greater than the worth of the player.

You know I haven't seen him in a while & I know he's been hurt but if Brandon Morrow has anything in the tank/has recovered then he's an ideal "buy low" type because that guy used to have great stuff along with the build of a true workhorse ace. In fact the year he got hurt I was thinking he was going to be a Cy Young contender that year. Also I don't want Masterson. Shields as others have noted many times here would be a great fit if the price is right in terms of years.

So in summation: IMO Hector should spend the offseason working on a Mark Buehrle type change or a circle change. If he can refine that then he could use his 4seamer more often, have 3 distinct velocity ranges, and either use the curve as a "show me" 5th pitch or ditch it completely as it will be unnecessary/redundant. *Edit: if he could do this then I think he will become a solid #3 and a core piece. If he can't I would try to trade him and continue to upgrade. As it is he's a great value at his price tag and performance but I would want more out of my rotation in general.

I think Noesi is a good focus point for discussion, because ideally our future rotation will go Sale-RHSP-Quintana-RHSP-Rodon. Ideally IMO we could sign someone in the offseason to take the #2 RHSP slot and Noesi would take another step forward and take that 4th slot. If we could sign a #2/#3 quality RHSP with Noesi being a #3/#4 quality RHSP then we have an ace at the 1 spot, a 2-3 at the 3 spot, and someone who could become a true ace at the 5. That would make for a terrific future rotation. So getting to Noesi, it just seems like the velocity variance is nowhere near enough. There are 2 small velocity ranges he offers and they are very close together. Noesi has a very good change and a very good fastball, and he's around the corners a lot and controls these pitches very well given their break. He's a strike thrower who gets a lot of quality contact outs and can work deep into a game on a low pitch count because of it, but the problem is that by the time the lineup rolls over for the second time the hitters seem to have things pretty well timed. So I'm thinking that obviously Noesi needs another pitch at a much lower velocity range. The curve flashes as a sometimes decent pitch but it's really more of a "show me" pitch (Hawkism) than anything he could hope to rely on. The change up is really more like a splitter than anything else though, and so I am thinking Noesi should spend the offseason working on a more conventional (claw/full hand grip) type of changeup to mix in with the splitter-like change and the fastball. If he could drop some extra velocity and add a thrid range of velocity then he will have a weapon that should get him through the 2nd time through the lineup much easier, and also, a more conventional change could also set up a 4 seam fastball lower in the zone, and effectively give him 4 pitches. I.E. he can throw the sinking fastball as he does OR the change breaking down in the zone, and in scenarios where the hitter is expecting a sinking FB or split-change to drop out of the zone he could try to spot the change (less break) or the 4-seamer and have 2 weapons potentially enabling him to catch called 3rd strikes in batter chase situations. So please enter thoughts and so on in the fields below.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) Call up Sanburn, open auditions for roles in the 2015 bullpen before we acquire one outright in the offseason. I'm half joking. Bassitt, Rienzo, Carroll, Cleto, Guerra, Surkamp, Snodgress, etc., etc. this team is going to be loaded with guys trying to take a 2015 bullpen slot as it is. All the guys mentioned also have at least some experience in the high minors and most have a good bit of MLB experience now.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) Study him, talk to him, see if they can make him a starter again, with that stuff he has. The video posted on the previous page puts his FB at 90-93 and touching 94 out of the pen. Presumably in a rotation, the velocity would go down on the fastball and the shoulder issues may become more of a risk, but the offspeed pitches have a better chance of developing. Making him a starter, even if he stays healthy, would seem to make him a #5 candidate. I like Rienzo's profile better, and Rienzo is still a #5 type. We need a #3 SP so you keep this guy in the pen IMO, and you do the same for Rienzo for that matter going forward, you see if he can make it as a MR because that's really a problem area for us both now and going forward, and it's very difficult to patch through FA.

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) Yeah, I could see that too. I kinda feel like the only reason he would get the call is because he's a former 1st rounder. We'll see. Mitchell pretty much has to be called up. There are going to be players we'll have to protect this year plus there will be our Rule-5 pick (Hahn has made one each of his 2 years as GM). We'll need to know whether Mitchell is worth keeping at all and if so, is he worth keeping over Danks, because no way are we planning on loading up the 40-man with 4th & 5th OF candidates.

Out of that list, these guys IMO will be outrighted off the roster or traded for scraps in the offseason: Frank De Los Santos Raul Fernandez Nestor Molina Taylor Thompson Josh Phegley And all of these guys are definitely on the bubble: Scott Carroll Eric Surkamp Jordan Danks Jared Mitchell

Belisario and Lindstrom could go today possibly to open up Rodon's spot. Lindstrom = probably not much of a chance he gets through waivers unclaimed, and the Sox will need some righty depth anyway since they can't count on Jones next year. Maybe Tank goes, but I think he's probably gone in the offseason. Belisario is the best guess I think as far who would go in terms of vets. Several of the players on this list aren't going to be on the 40man long once the season ends.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:17 AM) I don't think this is true, personally, but I have no proof, so it's not a big deal. This is still better than releasing him outright in Spring Training like you wanted. Now we get a look at Wilkins. Maybe the talent has changed and he can be a worthwhile long term solution. If the "stuff" in the scouting report is actually true, and the shoulder issues are at least a bit overblown, then I would agree with you. But I'd also say he wouldn't have been worth a player of that quality at any point except for maybe after the 2012 season had the Sox kicked in money and moved him then. The arm here is interesting but I think it's likely that the #12 prospect stuff and 2nd rounder designations are overstating what he actually is. Which is fine too, because if we get even a quality MR out of Dunn then we're automatically a lot better. But if this kid can legitimately throw 3 offspeed pitches over for strikes plus dial up the fastball, and if at least one of those offspeed pitches are average or better, then this deal is a massive steal for Hahn. In fact, you know what wite? You were right. A's are eating a tad over $1M & I didn't think the Sox would get a prospect with any pulse whatsoever without at least eating the full amount save for the leagume minimum. You're right, wite. I was wrong. This deal is a whole lot better than I thought it would be.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) Reading up on this guy, at least when he was drafted a couple of years ago, he wasn't a bad prospect. I think he was ranked 12th coming into this season for Oakland. Does look like he is already a reliever, so who knows, but this is definitely a better prospect than the garbage that usually gets acquired in these types of trades. I think we've pretty much gotten every penny out of Dunn's "value" and same with DeAza. The difference IMO is we could have gotten this out of a Dunn a long time ago. Oh well, the playing time is all that matters, and now the last month of White Sox baseball is infinitely more watchable. Hopefully one of the AAA guys will perform & give the Sox something more to think about while they are in their organizational meetings this year. Hahn still has a lot of work to do.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) I agree, bet Abreu misses him somewhat Why? There will just be someone else behind him now that the pitchers will go around Abreu to get to. Put Moist Sierria behind him, I bet he'd like that idea better anyway.

Also nice to see we got a potential RP prospect. It's a good thing we held onto this guy so long, no way we'd have gotten a haul like this in ST or last year.

This is like an Amway convention in here with all the fake positivity crap. Good God. No, he's not coming back, and no, we don't want him. We wanted him for about 5 months or so after he signed his contract and we've been wanting to ditch him since. It's like if your home was invaded by rats, you finally got rid of them, but then you find yourself kind of missing all the funny things they used to do more than you appreciate the experience of living in first world health conditions. Just let the guy go, he's terrible, good riddance, and Oakland just got worse.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) This has turned into an appreciation thread. This makes me happy and positive. You're a sadist. The only thing that would make you happy and positive would be if Oakland pulled out of the deal last minute and we ended up stuck with the guy for the rest of the season.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 10:20 AM) I doubt Adam Dunn cares that you don't "appreciate" him. I doubt Adam Dunn cares that you think he doesn't care that I don't appreciate him. I doubt Adam Dunn even cares about baseball a good amount of the time. Oakland is going to get a guy for the stretch whose mind is already on the golf course.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 10:26 AM) He is one of the few White Sox I have never seen loaf. Oh come on now this is ridiculous. Your typical Adam Dunn slump (lasting weeks) was characterised by loafing and he spent 1 of his 4 years here doing nothing BUT loaf. Haha, I said butt loaf.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) The quality of your posts are akin to Dunn's first year here What do you mean by that? I don't get it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) I know that TUC has trouble expressing himself at times, but I know that he really likes and appreciates everything Dunn has done for this franchise in his time here. We'll miss you Adam! It's like I'm in my car in the left turn only lane waiting for the light to change so I can turn onto Happy Avenue and then here comes this little f***er in an orange blazer clear across the road weaving in between the cars to stick a cup in my face asking for money. And all because I had the window down, just trying to enjoy the fresh air. You just turn all my smiles upside down.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 09:55 AM) Dunn's White Sox career was disappointing. He definitely didn't live up to expectations. However, the day that they signed Dunn was an exciting day for me. He was always one of my favorite players and unfortunately it never really worked out here. Hopefully he does well in Oakland. Dunn absolutely had to be moved though. Now we can b**** about the White Sox giving Andy Wilkins' at-bats to Paul Konerko down the stretch. Our 1B is Abreu & our DH target is Victor Martinez. Any role Wilkins has on the next Sox team (if he has any) is going to be a 1B/DH/LF bench bat in the mold of a Ross Gload. In that respect, even though I'd rather see him play, it's probably a good thing to know if he can come off the bench and put up a quality AB. That'll be his only shot to stick.

Clearly you people have issues following instructions., This thread is for NEGATIVITY only! This guy was horrible, and the Sox were too cheap to ditch him earlier. I have to admit though, I can see why people are wanting to be positive. I too am very happy this guy is about to be gone. I really want to be negative but the hate isn't spewing out, just joy over this guy finally getting the f*** off of this team and out of this city. Every day for this team is going to be a brighter one now. And Beckham's gone too. Phew.