The Ultimate Champion

Finally, on the very last day of the last trade deadline, your sorry ass is about to be out the door. Phew. What a relief this is for the organization. You have have been the biggest disappointment in Sox FA history. You were a hotdog and anything but a baseball player for the majority of your time here. Good riddance. Let wite & all your other fans say all the positive things they want in the Appreciation thread they will create. That can be a positive place, who cares. This thread is for negativity ONLY! Good riddance and thank God.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) We're long past the time of dealing Viciedo. If you'd written this thread in 2012 and challenged everyone that a 23 year old coming of a 25 home run season as a rookie (and fielding better than average) was going to regress completely, and also based on how guys like Cespedes and then Puig were having such huge impacts, it wouldn't have seemed possible that Dayan would be the one huge swing and a miss of all the Cuban hitters signed so far, but he clearly has been. As well as they scouted Alexei and Abreu, they missed something this time around that's hard to pick up on in Serie Nacional video or controlled batting practices and "showcases" for scouts. The other thing that everyone really fell in love with Viciedo was his arm strength. If not for that and his ability to drive the ball to the opposite field without much effort, we'd never have heard of him. Those are two tantalizing aspects that don't overcompensate for the lack of walks, the overswinging, the missing of way too many hittable pitches in the zone, the double play balls and numerous defensive lapses, the difficult hitting RHP and just in general hitting pitchers with great stuff (above 93 MPH) up in the zone. As with Crain and Floyd last year, almost every single player that was on the borderline this year has fallen off to the point where they have zero or negligible trade value, except for Alexei Ramirez, who we can't trade if we actually want to compete before 2017. I suppose they could use their magic 8 ball to know Gillaspie, Noesi and Putnam will regress next year, but all three of those "success stories" are likely to be back in Chicago next season for different reasons. See this is kind of what I am talking about, he just doesn't barrell the ball up enough. He can't make the adjustment within the AB because the ability to 1) know where the barrell of the bat is when it is in his hand, 2) translate that into a swing, 3) watch the baseball up to that point simply isn't there. In all fairness it is probably next to impossible to judge a player's ability to do this stuff until at least AA ball, probably not until the AAA and MLB level, because so much of hitting in the minors can be a guessing game - literally - where patterns are observed, you look for a certain pitch at a certain spot in the zone and are ready for it, and you don't NEED to use the other faculties that allow for an Abreu-like "adjustment" within the AB. I think barrelling the ball up is probably the best way to know though, if you can count that up, and then you see who can do this and who can't. Because a hit is only the result of a contact situation where a defensive play is not made to r5esult in an out, and an out by contact is only the same thing but where a play is made which records an out. But the ability to take a swing and place a small area of the bat onto the baseball regardless of pitch speed, break, or sequence at a consistent level is the sign of an above average and maybe an elite hitter, and I doubt Viciedo ever showed signs of this stuff, and certainly all our s***ty OF prospects haven't either. They have base fundamental flaws that will never ever get them to the point where we can evaulate their natural coordinational abilities. I want us to be able to test/look for this stuff.

I've seen Semien & I think he may have some real hitting abilities, but like Rios, maybe mentally he can't get there. I like some of what I have seen though. I wonder if Ravelo & Anderson and maybe Wilkins are pretty similar. I haven't seen any of those guys. There are always going to be mental and mechanical things that can come into play but I think there is a base ability that some guys have and others don't. I'm talking to myself here but caulfield is in this thread, and that's great, because he'll talk to me. Anyway I like turtles still.

If I was Hahn my most basic standard operating procedure on evaluating hitters, whether they are in house or potential acquistions, would be something like this: 1) Have all video data of all current or previous year contact situations analyzed and reviewed. Does the hitter barrel the ball up in this contact situation or not? Take a count of barrell contact. Being "fooled" and so on, that's mostly going to be a swing and miss thing, or a non swing entirely. Just looking at a hitter I would want to know how often he barrells it up when contact is made, and I would want to know the number of occasions total he does that and put it into a ratio that reflects PA. 2) From there I would look at things like player tools, position, etc. You want your SS & C to be defenders first, hitters second, but a good hitting C or SS that is kinda s***ty in the field could always move to another position. Are you looking for a position are are you looking for a hitter? If you want a hitter then really position is secondary IMO. Also, mechanical flaws are indicative of what? I'm thinking that you can't fix an internal incapability with a mechanical change, you can only implement a mechanical change to try to minimize an internal deficiency long enough to capitalize until the opposition makes the necessary adjustments in return. IE you can't hit the fastball with velocity up so you stand back in the box, or you take the curveball that starts high and drops low as a consequence of taking the high hard fastball hoping it's a ball. Or you look fastball and start early, and maybe implement some sort of mechanism to get you to start earlier. But no matter what if you can't consistently barrell the ball up because the coordination abilities are absent then all you can do is listen to you hitting coach and try new s***, but the mechanical stuff is never going to get you over the hump.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) I think the White Sox should sign Adam Dunn to a 25 year deal worth $1 trillion. He'd have to suck SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much dick to rightfully earn such a salary that... ...you know what... I think you might be onto something.

Oh I know it's all a looks thing re: comparing Maggs to Sanchez. But Hawk simply mentioning those two together made me think of both in the way they are able to put the bat on the ball. Carlos is a stocky player, his hands are pretty quick, and while he could never be a big HR guy or anything there is enough there to hit the ball hard if he could barrell it. I know there are timing mechanisms and everything, and mechanics have a lot to do with all that stuff. I guess what I am saying is that with a hitter, there is a general, innate, internal awareness of where the bat is when he holds it in his hand along with where the ball is as it is coming into the specific area the hitter is antipicating. I've compared hitters to fighters before and this might be a good comp. A boxer doesn't need elite hand speed to beat you, nor does he need to pack the most power to knock you out. Anticipation, awareness, feel, etc. these are things that I think apply very much to hitters as they do to boxers, kickboxers, etc. You can improve your footwork as a fighter, you can become more technical in the way you throw your punches, you can work to minimize the time it takes you to land your shot on your opponent and you can do things to open up that opportunity by adopting patterns, stances etc. Hitters are the same way. You can make changes to help you get the bat through the zone, you can stand in a different place in the box, you can roid to the gills to increase the size of your forearms or ramp up your bat speed BUT can you find the ball with the barrell of the bat? Can you find that chin? Just like older boxers with innate natural abilities can compensate for diminished physical attributes so can hitters. It's why Paul Konerko can still give you a good AB and why Barry Bonds on roids was totally different than a lot of the other players who appeared on those lists. It's why an older Abreu or Miguel Cabrera is still going to be a great hitter, because they will be able to start earlier and compensate but still find the barrell. I think most hitters just don't have that extreme level of awareness & it's nothing you can really learn or improve upon. Just watch a great fighter and the way they just know. They have a different level of unteachable internal abilities from everyone else & focus on physical tools and stances and approaches etc. probably clouds what is a "have it or don't have it" type of thing. So I'm wondering who we have that might fit this in the minors. Maybe Anderson, maybe Ravelo. If Ravelo gets the barrell on the ball consistently, keep him, even overvalue him. Trade Hawkins instead (I've been on that bandwago for a while anyway).

Also I was thinking about players like Andy Wilkins and so on, fringey types too. With Jordan Danks its easy, the bat speed isn't there, so you can write him off as a 4th OF at best. But in the case with someone like Wilkins, who I haven't seen, I'd rather compare Wilkins' ability to barrell up the baseball to the abilities of a more "toolsy" player's ability to barrell up the baseball and forget about secondary characteristics like speed, power, bat speed, age, level, etc. Can this guy find the basebal with the barrell of the bat at all? How often? And then use that as the main determining factor in trying to decide who gets kept when trades are made, who gets promoted, who gets the opportunities, etc. Stats and hits, etc. are just little things, anyone can stick the bat out there and get a hit or make an out, anyone can stand there with the bat on the shoulder and let the pitcher walk him, anyone can read the pitcher and observe the strengths and weaknesses of the pitcher and observe the patterns, but when the ball is in the strikezone and you swing, how often do you find the barrell whether you make a hit or out? Maybe LD% is the best statistical indicator but I think you'd just have to rely on the observations of your coaches and so on.

Okay so I wanted to make a thread about something so now I am doing it. Daayan Viciedo: I was just thinking now (or remembering) about JPN making posts about this guy when he was playing 3B for the Barons and how he seemed to have issues recognizing bounces and depth and etc. which is why they moved him to LF in the first place. Now I know Viciedo has pretty elite bat speed and above average raw power, and his hand-eye coordination skills are very high because of his contact rate. But just thinking about this guy, I don't ever think he's going to make it at all, because he just can't barrell the ball up consistently. Normally with pitchers it is pretty easy to judge talent level because all you are looking for is velocity, break, release point, etc. but with hitters I have always found it much more difficult to judge talent level, and it seems like mechanics are always shrouding potential in this like dark mystical funerial pall where you think "if only this guy could take this hitch out of his swing" or if only he could decide on this toe-tap or this stance or whatever then maybe he could make enough solid contact to actually take the next step. But I was just thinking about Viciedo and also Carlos Sanchez being called mini Maggs by Hawk, and neither of those guys seem to barrell the ball up with any consistency. Viciedo obviously has huge pop naturally and Sanchez is up there with a newspaper in his hand & if he doesn't barrell the ball up the ball goes like four feet and wheezes and it's done, but Maggs, like Abreu, just seemed to barrell that motherf***er up whenever he wanted to, I mean roids or no roids that guy got the barrell of the bat on the ball with regularity. WTF are paragraphs for? So with pitchers I was thinking the talent level is pretty easy to judge if you've seen enough of them but with hitters the focus is so often on mechanics, pop, etc. I've been thinking about it, and I think now that really the "talent level" of a hitter is all in that hitter's ability to naturally barrell the ball up. Now you take Abreu, and scouts talked about his bat speed as a negative, but guess what? That guy puts the barrell of the bat on the ball with regularity. In Maggs case we must assume he was more clean that not due to lack of evidence, but even if he was a roider, sure the roids are going to help his recovery on a game to game basis, sure they are going to increase the strength and durability of his wrists and forearms, and sure they are going to help him get the bat through the zone quicker, but Viciedo is a perfect example of a guy with very strong wrists and forearms and elite bat speed with big raw poewer - bigger than Maggs power was - but he just CAN NOT barrell that ball up consistently. So Maggs, roids or not, that guy had some hand-eye coordination skills and internal timing abilities that Viciedo apparently never has had nor ever will have. And so this gets me thinking about potential and so forth, and hitter talent level, and what I am thinking is that the ability to consistently barrell up the baseball should be the #1 first and foremost quality ever looked at in any hitting prospect or young player, and in the case of Viceido (and Carlos Sanchez potentially also, although it's not fair to judge him just off the little I've seen) I think once you've seen that the guy just can't sdo this stuff consistantly you need to (as a GM) put it in the back of your mind that (unlike an Abreu or Maggs) this is someone you can give up in the right deal. I think that the ability to barrell up the baseball is more than just a tool or something, it is an innate, unteachable ability that can never be gained and maybe never even lost either. IE mechanics, steroids, workout routines, etc. may put a hitter in better position to use his innate abilities to find the ball with the barrell, but you just can't make any changes to gain those abilities if you lack them, because they are acquired abilities and not learnable skills. So Viciedo will never make it, and in the case of someone like Sanchez, you look at extra things like position, speed, baserunning ability, fundamentals etc as you try to define his role and where he fits. But you just can't assume he'll acquire a set of abilities (not skills) that he was never in posession of nor will ever be in posession of. Anyway this all gets me thinking, Marcus Semien seemed to have a lot of the confidence s*** going on while he was here. But he definitely did seem to get the barrell on the ball quite a bit, same thing as Alex Rios. Now maybe with Semien it's just a youth/inexperience thing, we don't know yet, but with Rios all the natural innate stuff is there, but it's just more of a mental thing. I'm going to compare Javy Vazquez to Alex Rios: both have/had the raw "stuff" i.e. Javy has all the pitches, movement, etc. and Alex has the ability to consistently barrell the ball up along with secondary abilities like enough pop and bat speed, but both are not/were not/never will be capable of reaching their true absolutel ceilings. And just like Scott Carroll is never going to overachieve his way into a 94mph sinking fastball with wicked late movement, Dayan Viciedo is never going to suddenly barrell the ball up all time. Sure, you can blame pitch recognition and all that s***, and he can take more walks if you sap his aggressiveness, but just watch Jose Abreu last night, knowing the pitcher was trying to go around him, he's looking outside heat, he gets a hanger and he's able to adjust and smack it right up the middle. That is not Dayan Viciedo and never will be Dayan Viciedo, and it's not just because Abreu is "smarter" or he's "more professional" or has "better mechanics" it is because he posesses an elite ability Viciedo never has had nor ever will have. But maybe Semien has some of that ability, I was just kind of thinking about that, and also wondering if maybe Tim Anderson in the minors does too. Can this guy barrell the ball up regaularly? Because if so I think that ability should be viewed with the same level for hitters as you view "stuff" for pitchers, and we should try to keep the guys who can do this sort of thing regularly and ditch the ones who can't. Also WTF am I talking about? Can anyone tell me? We suck right now. Please enter your thoughts in the fields below. These fileds are comment fields and like to be typed into. It feels good to a comment field when you type in a comment field, but unless you press "post reply" or whatever it is just a tease. Don't be a tease. Also I like turtles but not half as much as wite like Dunn that giant piece of crap. Thank you.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 07:55 PM) Considering a few of the current Astros are pissed at the organization for the treatment of Appel, I wonder if that would make trading some of them more likely/possible. Maybe Castro is one of them? He's having a terrible year, but I'd take him over Flowers in a heartbeat. After the Bacon/Balls/Dicks trade scenario Castro was my second thought. The Marlins Danks rumors coupled with the big deal the Marlins made with the Astros, the fact that we may have had interest in Cosart, etc. there could have been something there, and the 2 teams just decided it would be easier to make a standard 2 team deal rather than involve all the salary complications the Sox side would involve. But if it was Castro coming here, Danks and cash going to FLA, prospects from the Sox heading out etc. that could make some sense.

Sox trade: Beckham Cubs trade: Bag of balls Giants trade: Bag of dicks Sox get: Bag of balls Giants get: Beckham Cubs get: Bag of dicks Deal fell through because the Giants ultimately didn't feel that Beckham was worth the bag of dicks. Poor Cubs, poorer us.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) Except that isn't Garcia's main job. His job is to be really good at defense and speed. Yep. And people can think it's unnecessary, wrong, whatever... but again, look at the way we are constructed and compare that to what Leury brings. What is a bench for?

Well I sure hope you guys are right about Tyler Saladino. I don't find him exciting in the least or a viable option anywhere, but of course I hope the best for all our prospects because the more value we have to work with the better we will be. Personally I wouldn't call him a bum or anything but he's the type of prospect IMO that you just completely forget about & if he makes it, terrific, if not, well... to be expected.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 05:13 PM) If they don't, they should. There's a lot more value to be gained from platooning than pinch-running. I think that is a very bold statement to make at best. It ignores so much in the way of context. Each roster has its own strengths and weaknesses based on its construction. Currently we are a DH-heavy, unathletic team pretty low on speed and without Leury there we don't have s*** for backup defense on the IF. Leury's presence adds a little bit extra to a lot of areas where we need help. This, basically, is what a bench is supposed to be for.

As it stands right now I would say this: Saladino and Leury could each play 150 games in AAA with whatever teams, and Saladino in the offensive stats department looks like the better player. However in the Majors Leury has one role he can fill and Saladino has zero. Neither player would get in 150 games, in fact, 150 ABs might even be pushing it. And even figuring 150 ABs, the difference in Saladino's bat over Leury's probably doesn't come close to accounting for the defensive versatility and speed advantages Leury provides. Again, the bat doesn't matter with Leury. That's not why he is here. Re: Saladino, the bat seems to be his biggest shot at a career, and yet he's already behind Semien, Sanchez, Johnson, Tim Anderson at least on the depth chart & also behind Leury on the UT depth chart. Even if the Sox trade Leury somewhere, it's very possible (and most likely IMO) that they'd bring in a few non-roster invites to fight Saladino for a UT role rather than just put him on the team.

Again, Saladino will have to overachieve with the bat to be a Keppinger-like player. I'm not hating, just trying to be realistic here. The road to the Majors for a player like Saladino is a long one, and if he gets there at all, it is likely only as a few ABs as a September callup before being removed from the roster. That Angel Sanchez we claimed, Jake Elmore we claimed & let go, Jayson Nix, etc. these guys all have parts of their game that make them better bets as MLB UT types. None have made it. Every year there are tons of guys like Saladino fighting for jobs & none make it. If Saladino could play a capable MLB SS we'd know because in our s***ty system he'd get the attention. Carlos Sanchez is marginalized as a SS here & he's a better spect than Saladino by a good bit IMO.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing with it. Garcia's talents, at this moment in time, are far outweighed by his absolute nothingness with the bat. What you're saying would be accurate if the dude could put up like a 60-70 wRC+, but last year it was 25 and this year it's 20. That's indescribably bad, and no amount of pinch-running and defence is gonna make up for that. That's how you get -1.3 WAR in 220 PA. Put him back in the minors and see if he can develop something approaching a hit tool. I don't know how you've decided that Saladino could not be a spot-starter defensively, he was the AAA All-Star starting shortstop this season, and all reviews of his shortstop defence are decent. That would likely make him more than decent elsewhere, and he's played 1B, 2B, 3B and LF as well as SS, and that's all this year. All the talk when Saladino got injured was that it was a shame because he'd been getting scouting buzz, he was close to MLB-ready and the org liked him and were preparing for a late-season call-up. No. The bat doesn't matter. Saladino doesn't have a MLB bat. Neither does Leury. Leury does so many other things well that he barely makes an MLB roster. If Saladino was a legitimate MLB defensive SS we would know about it. Trust me on this.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 01:52 PM) The should have him eat tacos out of the taco stand too. Guys got a big appetite for tacos. He ate a lot of tacos at the U of Texas. I'm sure he can eat some tacos too. Fixed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Oh my god this is the greatest idea I've ever read on this board. You and your buddy need to keep your ideas to yourselves IMO.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) Is Garcia's defence and baserunning better enough than Saladino's to justify the quite large difference in the bat? I don't think so. Saladino plays a cromulent shortstop, so I imagine he's fine elsewhere on the diamond. His speed has good reviews. And he can hit. And he's a good platoon candidate. That's a much better bench piece to me than someone who probably pinch-runs better and maybe has a slightly better glove (and Garcia's defence, particularly at second has actually been quite meh this year. I've liked him at third.) I think you're missing the larger view/point: 1) Leury has MLB defense at multiple positions, while Saladino does not 2) Leury has elite speed, while Saladino does not 3) Because of 1 + 2 Leury can be a PR for an MLB team as well as a late inning replacement and spot starter for an MLB team defensively, while Saladino really cannot 4) In terms of bat Leury has no bat whatsoever, but Saladino's bat is fringey Is Saladino's fringey bat enough to make him more valuable to an MLB team than Leury? No, because these players exist absolutely everywhere. Saladino really has a very small chance of playing in the Majors, and if he does, he will have to be a Keppinger type and hit his way into the picture. Chris Getz by comparison was a much better prospect than Saladino & look at how long he stuck around. Pablo Ozuna was a SS coming up, look at how long he stuck around, and Pablo was long ago also a much better prospect than Saladino & better than Getz by quite a bit as well. The general rule of thumb is that whatever the prospect is, he'll probably be a whole lot lesser at the MLB level than the "trajectory" indicated by his MiLB performance. Most of the tools you read about pretty much define the player and what he is and could be, and the difference is made up "between the ears" as Hawk would say, ie can he make the adjustments, is he mentally capable of dealing with failure, etc. In Saladino's case the tools aren't really there unlike Leury, and if he makes himself an MLB career he will have to do it by overachieving with the bat and so on. You just can't expect that, and MiLB numbers you should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take with a grain of salt. Just because a player performs well against a bunch of guys who will never ever even in their wildest dreams sniff the MLB level doesn't mean he has a shot at dealing with the MLB game and MLB pitching specifically. MLB pitching is smarts/experience + stuff most of the time with each player having 2-4 pitches he can throw over for a strike, and in the minors it's just one or the other mostly, stuff (1 pitch usually, maybe a second) OR smarts/experience. You get a guy with a big fastball who can't throw good strikes and has a s***ty secondary offering or an Axelrod or something with a very limited arm but who knows how to attack a hitter's vulnerabilities. The MLB level - just think of how much money is in the game as a clue to how much more sophisiticated the MLB level is strategically vs. the minors (Robin the Genius notwithstanding).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) What happened to Marty34? Such things I do not know.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) I met Sgt. Slaughter last night at our game and he was nice and I bet he would help us! He is a big man and I bet he would stand up for the rights for other big men to play shortstop! Sgt Slaughter is all skiunny now though. He's also Canadian. He could be your manager, that's fine, I will find Captain Lou Albano if he isn't dead yet (is he dead?) and he will have a parrot & Marty & I will use this parrot to kick your asses in the script!

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:36 PM) He only had one stop where he was anything other than bad offensively and that was fueled by BABIP. He's also on pace for nearly 200 PA this year. That's not barely playing. Saladino is the better option next year once he's back and it's not even close. Leury's value on the diamond is not in his bat. It's the glove, the versatility, the speed. All that together gives you something you care about becasue in terms of defense and speed and versatility he's more valuable and more elite than most UT type players are. The bat, you are penciling in an 0fer everytime out. That is why he is kind of a prototypical NL contender's 25th piece. Re: Saladino neither the bat nor the defense nor the speed makes your panties wet. He has a chance at being a MLB player but he has fewer tools than say a Jayson Nix or something. No one will really care about gaining or losing his services.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:34 PM) I don't see why we can't give Dunn a qualifying offer and then try HIM at shortstop. Why do you have to say these things? Why? If Marty34 ever comes back here then he & I will form a tag team & will fight you guys (you & wite) for real pro-wrestling style and you guys will have to lose it will be in the script.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 12:00 PM) The Sox are 7 games behind the Tigers and 6.5 behind the Blue Jays. They also have more teams to jump in the Wild Card, so that 6.5 game deficit may as well be 10 games. No, I don't think for a second that they'd be in the Wild Card hunt. Just because there have been some failures doesn't mean that the bullpen wouldn't have failed even if it was "better." It may have just failed in other games. Bullpens are fickle and when you play close games like that, you are going to lose some of them. Frankly, I think a better bullpen gets 2 more wins. Better production out of LF, RF, and 2B would be much more likely to contribute to the team being contenders in either race. Being "in" the wild card hunt is a lot more than games back anyway. It's also a depth thing, a "horses" thing, etc. You need to be good enough and depp enough to win games all throughout August and September to really be "in" it. We have way too many holes to say we are "in" any race that goes anywhere but the bottom. But hey that's fine right now, I'd love the chance at another top-10 draft pick as well as the ability to sign a Type A FA giving up only a second round pick. Claiming order during the waiver period is a nice little bonus too, because in FA teams need to open up roster spots to sign new players, and there are always some useful types that get waived because of that.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) Dunn has a .858 OPS vs RHP, has the 2nd highest OBP on the team, and is 2nd in HRs on the team. Just because you do not like somebody does not make them bad. Obviously at $15 million he is overpaid, but I would be perfectly content if the Sox brought him back at a fraction of his current cost. There really are not many options out for there for a LH, middle of the order power bat. He is still a very useful player against RHP and certain favorable LHP matchups. If the Sox keep both Viciedo and Sierra next year, they could re-sign Dunn and get Viciedo and Sierra both in the lineup versus LHP with one as the DH. We're not looking to a spot-patch together a platoon situation to cover a weakness, that is what contending teams do. We are rebuilding, that means we need youth and upside. Now let's say we deal Alexei over the offseason and in the deal we pick up a kid at the AA/AAA level maybe even one who has had a cup of coffee in the Majors, and we think he's our guy as soon as midseason 2015 piossibly. If we do that then we'd need someone to plug into that spot for a while, and you could argue for Dunn, but I think that would be stupid. It would be smarter to give those PAs to someone else who could help us in another area, or at least if it is a vet it would be much smarter to give those PA to a vet coming off a bad year/suspension/etc. looking to rebuild value, like a Mike Morse or Nelson Cruz last offseason, or something like that. The lack of lefthandedness really wouldn't matter at that point, we'd be looking for trade value. And at this point you can clearly see Dunn has no trade value. It's been obvious to some of us for a very long time.