The Ultimate Champion

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensa.../miami-marlins/ Salty & Jones are the only players with halfway decent contracts in terms of pay. Can't see us eating a massive amount of salary. Taking back a deal is one thing but there's really nothing we'd take back or that they'd send us.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 08:56 PM) We still seem to disagree but the bolded is something I agree with completely. I think this is probably their stance. They know Danks is a vet (good) and a lefty (good) and cheap to acquire in talent (good) and he's also pitched on bigger stages at least a few times. The Yankees probably want someone they can acquire who won't totally s*** the bed on them, and Danks fits that description. The fact that he's a gamer who pitches in the AL in a hitters park probably eases their nerves a little. But they're not giving us s*** it appears, but hey, that's porbably fine. I definitely would not be prepared to eat $5M per though. No way. Eating $2M per is enough as it is. Not sure we'd need to do more than that anyway, maybe all we need to do is put a smile on our faces & accept our Travis Hinton/Michael Dubee package and be happy about it.

I'm not sure we'll have to eat anything on this. Even the NY people aren't acting as though Danks is a massive overpayment. Sherman called Danks a mid-tier arm & the other stuff is about the Yanks not loving the idea of Danks contract. It could simply be that NY is telling us through the media "Hey look, we'll take this guy but there's no way in hell we're giving you a player, you ought to be thankful we're willing to take on the deal." That sort of thing. It hasn't (at least that I've seen) come out that NY views Danks as a #5 and his salary obligations as unmanageable and a total barrier to any deal as it stands. Heyman is talking about the player(s) coming back as a hangup. Okay, we're not getting s***, oh well. But it's also possible that the Sox FO might view this deadline as a win just by opening up more future flexibility going into the organizational meetings & offseason. Also we really have no leverage at all IMO. The only way we have leverage is if we know there is another team we can dump Danks off on if we want to. I don't think we can assume there is. The only other major suitor it appears is the Marlins and that pretty much has to be a deal where we eat a significant amount of money doesn't it? Maybe the Sox have the Dodgers on the backburner or something, and maybe they would take his deal for nothing or take on a smaller bad deal. But I don't see where we'd hvae any real leverage. We know Danks is what he is at this point physically and really all we have in our favor is the *chance* that Danks continues to evolve/mature as a pitcher and can find sustained success with what he has. But whatever the odds are on that it's certainly not a given, however his salary obligations are a given, and the difference in return between a better looking John Danks with less $$$ owed a year from now and salary relief right now probably is not worth the risk. What happens if we pass up a chance to dump the contract now and then find ourselves a year from now wondering WTF to do when he's getting shelled with an ERA above 5.50 and 3 other lefties are outperforming him every time out?

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 06:34 PM) first I think the sox will keep Danks if as you said push come to shove. second and this is my opinion, trading with the sox is trading with KW and his, let say not getting the right value of the trade. now all the GM's have to deal with Hahn who may be asking for value. I don't know, I am just wondering. If we flat out dump the guy right now we're probably looking at $32 or $33M plus of salary relief right off the bat and doing so at the expense of our 3rd best pitcher. Also from things the Sox hvae saidd plus their actions in trading Hector Santiago, we're probably not having 4 lefties in our rotation anytime soon & I'm not sure (especially with BorASS as his agent) that the Sox will want to put Rodon in the pen for a full season plus like Sale. In short, there's no guarantee you will be able to get out of Danks' contract at a later date, and not being able to do so could cause real porblems during a point we want to contend, so getting this done now while the chance is there probably makes a lot of sense. It's the safe bet, if the option does exist.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports the Yankees aren't interested in the $28.5 million John Danks will make in the 2015 and 2016 seasons. Danks will make $14.5 million in each of the next two seasons before becoming a free agent, and the Yankees aren't wild about taking on that kind of salary. It appears the White Sox would need to be willing to eat some of that salary, and it's unclear whether they'd be willing to do that at this point. CBS Sports' Jon Heyman has reported the Yankees' continued interest in the left-hander in recent days. Source: Mark Feinsand on Twitter Meaning this is going to be a pure salary dump if/when it goes down. Yanks know Sox have little leverage here & are applying the pressure. I don't think we're going to be eating much if any $$$ no matter what, but will we cave & flat out dump him if we have to in order for the deal to go through? IMO we will. There's too much smoke here, to the point where I think if we don't trade Danks to the Yanks we won't make a trade at all. Sox porbably know NY has little to give in the way of assets & are hopeful they will cave & give something back, but the Sox need to watch it, because the Yanks have players like McHugh and so on as fallback options in theory, there are always those sorts of options out there, whereas who else but the Yankees would be willing to take on Danks' deal right now? Also this move is as much about 2016 than anything else. No matter what our FO is thinking Rodon is a full season LHSP in 2016 & he's probably at least a partial SP next year too. Dumping Danks gives us flexibility now and saves us a potential headache later. Also Noesi could turn out too and be yet another in a long list of names picked up cheap/off the scrap heap by the Sox and turned into something valuable. There's no reason to assume we couldn't find someone who would replace what would be Danks' projected 2015-16 production during or after this season. I think if you can dump Danks to the Yanks and pick up an arm like Maurer out of Seattle or elsewhere - someone with real upside - the Sox could come out of this thing smelling like roses.

Also I tyhink that Sherman might be the Yanks publicity toy ala Cowley here or something like that. Heyman says the window is open so I would believe that. Sherman probably is being used to put pressure on the Sox. It sounds like Danks is probably going though... should be tomorrow morning at the latest. If the Yanks really want him I can' see the Sox hanging onto the contract now. Thety dumped Alex who had more value than Danks "for Abreu money" ie a bunch of bulls***, so they'll dump Danks ifthye have to. JMO.

Let's say it is August, Danks is still here, Hahn puts him on waivers, Yanks claim him. Anyone believe we wouldn't release Danks' contract to the Yankees in that scenario? I thinking that if push comers to shove, if the Yanks will take on the rest of the deal, given that we know Danks' velocity is not coming back, and given the presence of Rodon in the minors, I think the Sox will dump him for a Rios type package. Maybe the hangup is that the Yanks are offering Cervelli and the Sox want Murphy.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) Good, get it done. Even if they have to send out a good chunk of cash as long as they can get a decent B level pitching prospect I'd take it. Preferably a guy that would be ready by '16 in theory. If the Marlins want to send up this year's competitive Balance pick and a B prospect I imagine they'd get a nice amount of salary relief in return. Not sure why they'd do that but hey it's the Marlins.

Just wondering, it says Lackey is probably going to be traded, and there were reports of the Sox scouting Boston's MiLB system because of a possible Danks deal. What if that is wrong & we're really looking to get Lackey and that's the real connection? Just throwin it out there but he's a righty who will make the league minimum next year and if Danks goes then a Sale-Lackey-Q-Noesi-Rodon rotation next year could be respectable. Probably not a contender but with enough offense it could be.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) I'll suck it, but it can't be signature official until at least two people say it! So you want at least 2 people to watch you suck it? Interesting, definitely more interesting than the trade deadline this year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) Too much informatioin. Speak for yourself. I say too little.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) You get an A prospect for Jose Quintana (plus some). You might get a C- prospect for Gordon Beckham. You get multiple A prospects for Quintana otherwise your GM gets fired. God damn prospects are overrated around here.

2015 rotation ideally for me: 1) Danks is traded 2) Sale-RHSP we mostly pay for w/ Danks money-Quintana-Noesi-Rodon with at least one good looking young RHSP from outside the org in the bullpen if/when someone gets hurt or falters. 2 would be better along with Beck in AAA as further insurance.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 30, 2014 -> 06:54 AM) I absolutely support losing in this situation. Me too. High draft pick + high waiver claim/Rule-5 order and the ability to sign a comp free agent while giving up only a 2nd round pick (welcome back to the 2014-15 *version of the Ervin Santana talk - although now I would HOPE posters here still aren't naive enough to assume we have a full rotation/don't need RHSP help). *edited: not saying we want Ervin this time around (contract demands are???) but we'll be back to that roundabout discussion of which is better, proven MLB player or 2nd round pick - and my answer will be proven MLBSP once again.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) Why? What value does Gordon Beckham have to anyone? Contract Also I know there are errors in this I diont care to fix them TYVM

Beckham has more value than Dunn by quite a bit. Now OTOH if the Sox eat 100% of the remaining salaries of both players aside from the prorated minimum then it's probably a toss up based on opposing team need. Neither are bringing back anything much at all even at full salary relief but maybe a desperate team gives us a longshot or a bust/reclamation type. That's if we're lucky. Adam Dunn is worse than garbage. At least some garbage is biodegradable and can turn into rich soil, Adam Dunn is basically like that hard plastic wrapping material that you have to cut with scissors where you throw it in the recycle biun but you know it's still probably heading for a landfill anyway. That's Adam Dunn, worse than garbage, no redeemable qualities, just a massive piece of plastic s*** that needs to go away ASAP. We should DFA his lurch ass and call up Andy Wilkins, who gives a f*** if Andy ends 8up just as bad. Get that miserable piece of s*** off this team already my god. And wite don't you repsond to this post qwith nonsense or nI sdweart I will vote you 1 star!!! NBut anyone who s***s on Adam Dunn I will vote your profile 5 stars TYVM.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) Who wants a drink from the firehose?!?!?!? So many great moments in that movie. Kuni & his gang bursting out of the janitorial closet going "Supplies!" might be my favorite. Also the pet show guy.... that guy actually died during filming IIRC. He was supposed to have a larger role I think but they cut it out. Badgers? Badgers?! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGERS!!!!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 09:52 AM) Maybe get a firehose and spray him down when he chases a slider two feet out of the zone? You probably want to hose him down sporadically as it is just to keep him from mounting Southpaw. You let Tank the Hippo get too hot out there & he'll go into the stands, grab Southpaw by the nape of the neck & drag him out onto the warning track.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 09:10 AM) Why do you think the Royals are interested in him? This post is brilliant. 5 stars for you!

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 11:52 PM) Maybe if we just had a water feature out there somewhere, he'd be less aggressive. Then all you statamaniacs could graph outside zone swing% against water sprays... I bet you'd find a sharp increase in walks occurring in PAs immediately following OF hose-downs.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:05 PM) Haha I always remember his 3 errors in the All Star Game. Wow that's bad. I didn't know that happened. LOL so maybe there really is someone out there who sucks harder than Beckham.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:04 PM) And if you want to know what a hippo looks like actually playing a position, there's always Dayan Viciedo! Hey-o! Tank the Hippo wants to be in the water but instead he is rolling around in the brush after misjudging the location of the river.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:37 PM) That is more because you want to keep the consistency in the rest of the order when Eaton needs a break. Why mess with everyone when one guy needs a break. Maybe Garcia is used to being in that spot through out his minor league career and is more comfortable there. Oh I know that is *his* reasoning, I'm just saying that *his* reasoning often makes no sense. When there's like 10 different options and you're consistenly picking between the 3 dumbest actions to take then I just have to wonder whgether you are a managert guy ore a footlong chili cheese dog, that's all.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) 1.00 weenie wedsnesdays at the creamery! I love the chilli cheese dogs. me too (all of us, although mine is turkey dog w/ turkey chili TYVM) but I dont want my footlong chili cheese dog managing the baseball game I barely trust the thing long enough to manage its way down my esophagus & into my belly sometimes it doesnt have a lot of time to react it goes down so quick

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:33 PM) Maybe he doesn't trust a younger player higher in the order or maybe Conor told him he is not comfortable in that spot. You could force a player to hit there but what would it do to his performance. There are many variable that go into the lineup not just "the guy with the highest OBP" hits second. Then you get Leury Garcia betting leadoff you have to wonder whether Connor's spot int he order is the product of great thought or just Robin being Robin ie footlong chili cheese dog being footlong chili cheese dog