HeGone7

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) I don't understand the bafflement. I get that you guys think they should blow it up, but why are you shocked that they aren't? They're a .500 team with all of their core players controlled next year. They just decided to keep trying to build and win. I'm not saying it's the RIGHT decision, but it's not a confusing one either. Yikes.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Mired in mediocrity? Mired in front office incompetence. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Fire everyone except Hostetler if no moves are made. Bingo.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Beltran for Dillon Tate confirmed Anyone else incredibly impressed with what Cashman has done? Or is it just the lack of Sox moves that makes it feel better than it is.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) I just can't see this FO doing a complete 180 and tearing this thing down. That is not how KW and Reinsdorf roll. We are still in year 2 of some sort of 3 year plan. The only guy I see possibly getting moved is Shields. Otherwise, the Sox are gonna sit on their hands at the deadline for the third straight year. The same core will be back next year without any major additions like Reddick, Encarncion, or Ramos/Wieters. It is beyond frustrating and I hope that I'm wrong, but this front office is either too scared or too stubborn to make any major changes. I'm with you, but it is what needs to occur. Even Bowden was on tv the other night saying how rival executives think the Sox will have the fastest rebuild of all-time. They understand the basics. The type of talent the Sox can acquire, while nothing is a sure thing, is so much better than what we typically see dealt this time of year. Or if we do see that type of talent dealt, that's the only bullet the selling team fires of that level. So yes, this is a very unique opportunity for the Sox. More importantly, they can stretch their payroll out with veterans or role players or make a decent splash in the next couple years because of the flexibility they'll have. If you keep it together, and can somehow acquire the elite talent you lack offensively without dealing both arms. Fine. I won't complain (too much) but we know this isn't the case. So the longer you wait on dealing your big chips, the longer we stretch out this cycle of mediocrity and the more your value on Sale/Q dive. Much of the extreme value is in their controllability/contracts, as we all know. You wait for 2 years and you're looking at weaker package. It's just fact. I just am not sure the 3 stooges making decisions can pull this off. And when they don't, year 3 of 3 should be the end of their jobs, not just "the plan."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) The Boston package isn't possible until the off seaosn. I didn't realize they had told us the package yet. I'm surprised to hear that Moncada + Benintendi and whatever else isn't on the table "in-season." If by some miracle you get a Betts, then so be it, wait until the off-season. QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) I would disagree. They need to get one stud pitcher in the deal for Sale. I would not like the plan of spending 300 million on two pitchers. If that is your requirement, you've ruled out Boston and they're a moot point then because they don't have the pitching. Your best option has a PED suspension under his belt, injuries and is 3 years away from the majors I'd say. Not to mention his innings restriction upon arrival. Hasn't shown the upside of a Sale/Q. I personally don't think you need an arm for Sale. I think you need to get as much value as you can since he has the most selling power. Whoever that comes from. Hitting should trump filling the void of Sale. This is rebuilding, not re-tooling and putting the same roster together with different names. I do think you need to acquire an arm or three in the process. I think some good arms will be available for less (see Pomeranz). With Boston you have potential to net 2 of the top 6/9 prospects in baseball, and more, it sounds like. I'll target a front-line pitcher in another deal. This is all based on the assumption the Sox are open for business and plan on rebuilding the whole thing. If you're keeping pieces around, then obviously I would maximize targeting those holes. SP may be one of them in that case. If you're flipping the whole thing - you get as much value as you can on your big chips. You isolate on the lesser ones.

QUOTE (2Dbill @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) I tend to think that the Dodgers may be a better match than Boston for Sale. that said I don't think a trade happens until the off season. Dodgers Joc Pederson Julio Urias Jose De Leon Alex Verdugo Austin Barnes I doubt that the Dodgers trade Pederson now since he just got back from the DL and they need him for the pennant push . Boston Yoan Moncada Andrew Benintendi Michael Kopech Mauricio Dubon Luis Alexander Basabe Jason Groome We have to wait until the season ends to trade for this year's draft choices .I asked for 6 players because I did not include Rafael Devers and none of the players have Mlb experience. I'm taking the Boston package. If there is one thing to learn from our Northside friends it's that you load up on hitting. They've filled their rotation with FA for the most part, and had Arrieta not turned into the best pitcher on the planet for almost 2 years now, their rotation would likely include another Ace they acquired via FA/trade. I'm not saying Urias and/or De Leon won't be good, great, or better than the hitters from Boston. Just that I think your mindset needs to be to fill the farm with as many bats as you can. We've had success finding starters. You need less of them. There is plenty available annually in FA. Get 2 deep with hitting down there and see what pans out.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) If we are that terrified of really talented single-A ball players we really should have a different front office. I don't disagree with you. Just my personal opinion on Sale/Q is you need to be headlined by a guy who is on the roster immediately. When names like Moncada, Betts, Bregman, etc are thrown around - those are vastly different than a 19 year old in A ball. Too many guys have flamed out as they advance and since people are petrified at this idea of getting "prospects" - you're playing right into their hands when you go after guys 3-4 years away. Even more with pitchers. So I just think you need to have guys who are advanced, proven and ready to contribute on those two guys. If you want to move anyone else for a Torres - I'm 100% ok with it.

QUOTE (bruni @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Yankees take the entire haul received from Cubs for Chapman, add #2 overall catching prospect Gary Sanchez AND Pineda (Coop will fix him!) for Sale. Sox immediately solve long term catching issue with Sanchez and most recent #1 Collins, get stronger up the middle in time with McKinney and Rashard Crawford, acquire stud middle infielder Torres (who I would convert into a 2B) and have both Warren and Pineda to bolster starting pitching staff. Not a fan of this. Again, if you're dealing Sale, the "Star(s)" or "Headliners" need to be MLB ready or there now. Torres is a Single A player right now. Too much of a gamble how his development will go. Most of us don't expect the Sox to be able to help. The Yankees entering the picture is not a bad thing. If they can move Miller for some similar prospects to what Chapman got, I would listen to what they have to say but they need to pay more than anyone else if their package is headlined with guys 3-4 years away. Such an obscene package, in my opinion, is the only way you back off the mlb ready talent. I also think this brings up a good point, why are the Sox, if they are, limiting themselves to contenders for Sale/Q? Because of their unique contract situations, this should be something they're shopping everywhere. This may be a pipe dream, but for a team who wants to accomplish this rebuild as quickly as possible. Can you pry away an Arenado? Does it cost you Sale or does it cost you more/less? If I'm Colorado, knowing my hitting is rarely the issue and farm has more guys - why wouldn't I risk it to finally get a proven arm that has essentially been non-existent in that organization? You know odds are slim someone signs there, so this may be their best crack at it. I just wonder why we are so focused on the playoff teams as if they're the only ones willing to pay a premium. If MLB talent is part of the request for Sale, the non-contenders may be more likely to deal.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:42 AM) I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that. Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically." This is the stuff that drives me nuts. You're 100% correct that those two, in particular, suck. But your comment/opinion is so far off-base. If the Sox are selling, you're acquiring "Elite prospects" in my eyes. Guys who are top 10, 20, 30 and in some cases 40 overall in baseball. But something about them is ELITE. Most of them would come from Sale and Q deals, I pray somehow they can max out value on Frazier, Robertson, Abreu and Eaton to at least get 1 guy on that level. Those guys being acquired, in most cases, are guys who have proven success in the minors or college and are ready for the show. Their chances of not panning out are still there but far less. The expectation is this guy's floor is still a serviceable mlb player. Their peak are guys like Bryant, Fernandez, etc. That is the goal here. There is a major difference between the guys up at the top of those lists and the guys at the bottom. You'll always have guys who don't pan out, but if you want to build a real contender...The Trouts, Harpers, Strasberg's etc come from the top. That is what you're attacking when you're selling these types of talents. Davidson was never remotely in that realm. I think his highest ranking was mid-70's. Which is a good prospect but it also tells you a lot. When you talk about Davidson and using him as an example for what the Sox should do, you're comparing the chances at acquiring a Machado to acquiring a Zach Cozart. I used Cozart because he actually is playing well, and that's what you hope when you get a guy like him, but it requires far more development. He'll also never be on the same planet as Machado and there is a higher risk of not panning out - like a Davidson. Garcia is in the same boat. Very flawed prospect. Detroit loved him, which is great, but no one else seemingly did. He reminds me of Lyle Mouton. This big guy with hype and couldn't hit the ball out of the park if he hit from 2nd base. I fully expect the Sox to get several of these types of players if they sell. Which isn't a bad thing if they get a handful of elite prospects. Then you aren't relying on those Davidson's to save your farm/franchise. But the core of what you're acquiring needs to be proven commodities on other teams. Prospects who have dominated, not played well/ok and show promise. Not guys with one pitch and nothing else. You're getting guys like Urias who ceiling is an ace and floor appears to be a middle rotation arm. My biggest fear is the Sox go after the wrong talent at the top. The 5 tool guys that have been a staple of Kenny Williams failures. If you do, his biggest strength better be his bat because we struggle developing offense. Guys who hit the ball with regularity, and do it well, and can play good defense. Load up with bats. I don't care if the guy has an 80 for speed or 80 for an arm. I want the guys who can play. My other concern is you get too young of players who we are forced to develop. Too much can go wrong in that timespan. The younger they are, the less sample size you have, the higher the risk. San Diego did the right thing for them. They dealt a guy who never has thrown 100 innings, cost them nothing to acquire, and they went boom or bust on a young highly talented arm. The Sox need to be acquiring that same caliber arm AFTER he has proven himself, developed secondary stuff and is ready to come up. That is the major difference here. Some of those guys will likely come in trades, but they just can't be what you're banking on to resurrect the franchise. But back to the original point, you can't look at the past failures of the Sox acquisitions because most of them were what they could get for what they dealt. We got Avi for Peavy, who was 32, declining and frankly sucked 3 of 4 years here. We got Davidson for Reed, who was a 1 year wonder basically as a closer. This time is a whole different animal. You're selling very good/star players in their primes for several "can't miss" type guys who will be on your roster in 2016 or 2017. Maybe 2018 latest. The middle-tier Davidsons that round out packages hopefully are guys you hope pan out, or they get moved for an MLB player when the time is right.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason? There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason. Teams are desperate, but if your hope is to deal Sale and get a guy like Betts with prospects, or Seager, I saw Springer's name thrown around this site, etc., those guys I don't foresee available in the midst of a playoff push. However, in the offseason, I think they'd certainly be entertained. So I see pro's and con's for both. Obviously, I wrote a narrative about my feelings on selling, and if several guys are dealt but part of the plan is to move the bigger pieces in the offseason because they can net a young star already on a roster - I'm ok with that. But I'm very weary of the Sox actually following through.

Not big on posting anymore but always follow this site. I can't be the only one utterly fed up with how this organization is run. To me, the Sox HAVE to sell, and sell nearly everything. This is a broken system. Your organization top-to-bottom is mediocre at best. "If you always do, what you've always done. You'll always get, what you always got." You cannot keep assembling a team of cast-offs, veterans, minor leaguers and 1-2 legit superstar players and expect them to catch lightning in a bottle. Every year it's the same conversation, "we were mediocre last year but if this guy plays up to his potential, and this guy breaks out, and this guy does this - then we have a chance at 90+ wins." And every single year, it flops. The Sox answer to this is, "lets sign someone else mediocre or trade for another mediocre player." All this is, is a Band-Aid. You're not fixing your problem. I think the Sox are in a very tough spot right now as an organization. I think the core of the fan base will always be there and I don't follow this to the extreme, but I'd imagine the organization financially is ok. But when you have kids coming up, your future fan base, and you're a joke while the team competing with you for fan base in the city is borderline great - you're in a world of problems. I've been to two games this season and am not ashamed to say that. I don't feel obligated to spend money on a not serious product. The Sox are not serious about winning. Everything about this organization screams that. You have an inept owner incapable of spending what needs to be spent. You don't need a 200 million dollar payroll, but when you scout like the Sox do, you do need it. Because you have nothing of value in the minors and nothing available for immediate impact far too often. So you can't be a middle-tier payroll in those cases. Their front office and management is a joke. It's like a family, which is admirable, but sometimes you need to disassociate. How Ventura has a job blows my mind. Why KW and/or Hahn are still around is another. Anyone in the scouting department pre-Hostetler should've been fired. Most of them still should be. You do not have the pieces to acquire a star player or 2. That is sadly what this team needs. The "stars" if you can call them that, are incredibly flawed w/the exception of Sale. Even Q, not his fault, but he is flawed in that he just isn't perceived elsewhere like we view him. At least from a fan perspective. Same can be said for Eaton. Unfortunately, the position they're in is their own fault. And they need to sell. If by some miracle people are willing to pay you a premium for Q and Eaton, which their statistical value suggests but that "perception" may not exist, then maybe you don't have to move Sale since that is most of what I hear is difficult for the Sox fanbase to swallow. People fear this rebuilding process, but if this is done correctly, you will not have a lengthy rebuild. The Sox are in such a great spot that you can net probably 10 of the top 50-100 prospects in baseball, amongst others, in a full scale fire sale. Many of those guys being top 30 range guys in a Sale, Q, Eaton deal. I would think Frazier can net 1. Abreu I'm not sure about these days. This isn't a rebuild where you have a bare cupboard. You would have assembled the best farm in baseball. Easily. Most of which are ready to contribute and you'll have 100 million free to spend on whatever you want. Next years class is weak, but a 2 year flier on a Bautista, should he hit the market mixed with several prospects and I'd be relatively excited/interested. He's just for example sake, don't freak out about age and what not. It's a legit 30 homer bat in your lineup and a guy with some charisma for selling seats. People were so thrilled about Anderson and his arrival. Think of 5 or 6 better versions of Anderson on this team offensively. Think of 2 or 3 arms that have potential to be better than Q and Rodon, may not ever be Sale, but I'd argue 27 teams in baseball don't have that and they can all win. You're not selling to acquire long-term projects like SD got. Your chips are far more valuable and you'll see the fruition immediately. Which generates excitement in your fan base, or lack thereof. The other big misconception is that you need all of these guys to pan out to their full potential. I don't remotely expect that. The hope is what you get nets you a few stars who pan out and then several good ballplayers. Some busts are likel. Look at the Royals. They had the "greatest farm ever" a few years ago and as each guy came up, they didn't quite meet the hype. And yet, they still won. Some guys can still be valuable after not completely panning out. They don't have to totally flame out like a Beckham. If they sold everything and got an influx of 12-15 guys lets say. That means Sale, Q, Eaton (our 3rd most valuable chip and a guy who shouldn't be dealt for less), Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Jones, Duke, Robertson. To me, that's like 12-15 guys you're getting back minimum especially if people expect more than 4 for Sale. If 3 of them pan out, by pan out I mean reach their talent like a Betts or Bryant have, that's all you'd want. You have cornerstones at that point. Cheap ones. Flexibility to spend and bring in the deficiencies or trade a couple for parts you need. This isn't the Cubs drafting top 5 for a few years and waiting on that. Our rebuilding process started because most of these guys are ready to come up for other organizations and are either blocked or need to finish this season on the farm. If I'm the Sox, I'm selling everyone but the aforementioned young 3. I'm telling teams no chance on Sale and unless teams are paying the premium Eaton warrants, I'm telling them he isn't available. Drive up the price on those two by maxing out what you receive on the other guys. Then, last minute, you make them available and you've established a floor for value. If you get a haul for Q, who would be perceived as the best arm available, you're only going to get that much more for Sale. When Eaton, and his #2 overall defensive WAR, and top 12 overall WAR hit the market, you strike on that as well. Sorry for the long post but this was a much needed venting process. If they stand pat, I'm not sure I'll be willing to stomach another year of this organization or baseball anymore.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 22, 2013 -> 09:50 AM) So every player who starts well is going to find Jesus and quit baseball? No. However this league is about adjustments. It isn't uncommon to see you guys come up and do well initially. It's up to them to make adjustments because their opponents will have a blue print for them. It isn't to say that Garcia cannot do so, it is more to just temper the expectations and excitement around this guy. Josh Fields is one of many. I used him as a comp because of the White Sox connection and that they struggle to make contact some of the time. Fields came up and everyone was excited, and rightfully so. He tanked. Beckham, different from these two in make-up, also killed out the gate. Maybe he has figured some things out now, but we know he has been ineffective at the plate since his first taste of the majors. End of the day. I hope this kid works out. I am less high on him then others because I think his stature, his minny miggy nickname, and solid fall for Detroit has given him a little more hype then is deserved. From a hitting standpoint, that is. I don't think he is a sure thing and I think he needs some work. So before we all get amped up proclaiming Garcia as the next Paul Pierce, I think we should give it some time so we don't sour on him quickly when things go south. I revert back to Beckham. If he has somehow figured things out at the plate, even just marginally, then we have a very solid player. A player many of us didn't want around because of lofty college numbers, immediate success in the Majors, and then a major regression. I hope he is a case of a guy coming into his own, but who knows. If he is (and most of us wanted him out, myself included) then we'd be pissed off when he performed elsewhere. It's similar here to Garcia in that we have an awful team, a kid playing well in a short sample, and people are popping champagne with Hahn. Let's all just relax is all. It is going to be a long ride.

I know this topic has been brought up numerous times over the year, and several times over the last 60 days, but again how is this guy not a hot commodity right now? He hasn't really slowed down much since May 31st, and although his power numbers have dipped since the ASB he is still productive. Is this a case of just pure caution? Is it his contract? Is it just teams holding off until the very last minute to avoid giving their competition a chance to react? I guess I'm just surprised by the lack of activity. Maybe not surprised nothing has happened but to just hear crickets regarding any trades at all. The whole story at the deadline was the deadline is too early now because of the 2nd wild card and too many teams were in the race so the August deadline would have some excitement. Now I think it is more defined as to who is in it and it is too quiet.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 19, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) .297 average since his callup. Hits in 8 of his last 9, three multi-hit games in his last 6. He's also starting to get a bit gappy and hit some doubles. Rick Hahn is a genius to get him (and more) from a division rival in a deal that sent away the oft-injured Jake Peavy. I love it and I love what Rick Hahn has shown already. More genius, please. Josh Fields hit 23 homers in his first half season in baseball.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Does she play guitar and sing your friend sweetly pop songs? Couldn't answer you that question. Never met her. It was told to me following some conversations and a fantasy baseball draft.

Highly doubt the A's are in on him. You'll have to take my word for it, but Billy Beane has a daughter who lives in Chicago and dates a friend. Billy isn't very fond of Cespedes, so I can't imagine another high-priced, free swinging, Cuban is on his way to Oakland. Take it for what it's worth, but I am not so sure the A's will be rushing to the front of the line to pay big bucks for this guy.

QUOTE (Mr. Showtime @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:24 PM) I hear you loud and clear. I feel like some fans think they are going to take all this money and just go on a spending spree this winter, I don't forsee that at all. The purpose of freeing up the money isn't to use it right away, having flexibility is very valuable. I dont think the Sox will, but they can sign guys and even better the team from what it was, if they'd so choose. Where as they couldn't/wouldn't before. I think re-allocating money is a wise move. I think the Sox are in a good position to draft high caliber players and sign some guys internationally. I wouldnt want to see all that money get used but rather re-tool with youth for a couple years and see what you have. Lets see if the rotation holds up and if so, you can gun for hitters via free agency once you see how things shape out on the farm over the next 18 months. If you want to go all-in again, I think the earliest would be 2015. Likely 2016.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 07:56 PM) Yep.. no need to make a deal if the prospect isn't right. At this point I would much rather bank on those supplemental draft picks. I am sure he will at least be a type B free agent. The Sox do draft well. We should definitely opt for the picks instead of the payroll flexibility.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 07:53 PM) Who would the Sox be able to sign for next year at 12.5 million that would produce like Rios? Don't give him away to save money. Why does it matter? You're the 2nd worst team in baseball that has already subtracted pieces. Meaning, without major changes, you'll likely be as bad or worse next season. Why pay 12.5 million to a guy who will give you 80% effort on a 90 loss team, when you can see what you have elsewhere. The sox need this money, need this time, and need this "rebuild".

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) I am honestly shocked that the rangers are not willing to include Odor. I guess they are expecting to get Rios for next to nothing like we did... If that's the case, we are better off keeping him until the winter. I am sure he would make a nice trading chip for those GM meetings in December. I don't totally understand this accepted gaurantee that Rios will net a bigger haul in the offseason. Maybe I am wrong on that but he'll have lost his 2013 control to the team, there will be an infinite amount of more options out there, and teams will have seen what contending teams were unwilling to pay for him. Why would offseason teams give up more for him? I just dont understand that. If you can get something of value now, great. If they're willing to take the contract, give him up.

Had a buddy text this to me today. Probably was on during the game or on twitter or something: "Alex Rios is 1 of 17 players in history to have 500 extra-base hits and 200 steals in his first 10 seasons....and he sucks." I always like funny stats like that. Whether they are manipulated and spun in a positive light, or just random positive things that people find. In Rios case, I think this stat just kind of sums of the talent he has and how we all feel there is much more which goes to waste.

Curious what people feel about Dunn? He's hitting roughly .280 since the end of May. 14 homers, about 50 rbi's. .400 obp. Is he just too much of a risk or is it the contract that is keeping him in a White Sox Uniform right now? I just can't figure out how his bat isn't extremely attractive to other teams. Perhaps as more teams fade or enter the race in the next couple weeks he becomes attractive? What is the sentiment around here on this?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:10 PM) "I hope he stands strong and gets good value for these players" "WHY DIDNT HE DO ANYTHING!!!!" So much LOL. Honestly, this is how I feel. It's a catch 22 I guess but I still feel like more could've been done. I wasn't in the room during his calls but to not make a single move with Rios, Alexei, Lindy, Beckham, Dunn, or Dayan is just shocking. I can understand one, but not all.

I understand I am likely in the minority here but this is a failure in my eyes on Hahn and the Sox. I am all for getting a fair deal, and that may not be "the best deal", but you cannot fall on your face as we did. 2nd to last in baseball, big contracts on books and players clogging positions you hoped to clear for young guys to audition. I just can't fathom that of all the years we see major players moving for major prospects, this is the year they do not. There is still time to deal some guys in August, and the offseason obviously, but in my eyes things have delayed our recovery time. I get we didn't want garbage or a guy just to have one, but creativity, as we saw with Boston is key in these situations. I can't help but be grossly disappointed and maybe that disappointment is being channeled incorrectly onto Hahn, but where else do we put the blame?

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) He would fit well in Baltimore. If there is a second half strike-out record, he and Davis may break it.