Lip Man 1

Just saw a story by Heyman at CBSSports.com where the Dodgers have told Puig they are not trading him for what it's worth. Mark

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 06:46 PM) I'm just not sure this is true in this era any more. Even average, cost-controlled position players are starting to look like all-stars. Guys I barely wanted 5-6 years ago are now legit AS starters, while guys who today are top 10 Cy Young award people have stuff that seems like it would blow peak Johan Santana out of the water. I think there is some truth to what you say. There are more guys for example dealing 100 MPH then ever before but how many teams can say they have five 'decent' starters and the bullpen to back them? Still pretty rare. The Sox could be in that position if Rodon, Fullmer, Eric Johnson develop in the next two years (since they'll be losing Shark and Danks). I can understand if they feel they can't gamble and deplete that potential rotation even further. (And like with anything else, there's no guarantees someone doesn't get hurt, or simply lose it.) Mark

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 08:12 PM) Phillies much are worse. Maybe Boston, too. Two big differences between those franchises and the White Sox in my opinion. 1. Both have won World Series more recently than the White Sox. Their fan base hasn't reached the point that by and large the Sox fan base has. 2. Both are the "only game in town." No other team in their market baseball-wise taking away the casual fans and their dollars or generating positive publicity. Phillies and Red Sox still draw pretty well, much better than the White Sox who last I looked were 27th or 28th in MLB. (That may have changed recently as they drew well for the Royals series because of the 2005 reunion and the Cardinals who brought a ton of fans with them...) Mark

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 08:12 PM) Phillies much are worse. Maybe Boston, too. And the Sox had some really bad teams in 60's and 70's, much worse than today's club. That's true but they were never that irrelevant in their own market. John Allyn made the drastic changes that were needed in September 1970 after the disasters of 68 and 69 to change the direction of the franchise and by 1972 they were a contender. And Bill Veeck despite his issues (and he had many) at least was always cooking up crazy things to keep the fans / media interested in the team even with four losing seasons in the five years he owned them. If you look at the totality of the situation (save for the financial side - all MLB teams are rolling in money) the Sox are in a bad state right now. I talked about some of the issues in my column "Loyalty without Accountability..." Attendance has dropped eight straight years, TV ratings are rock bottom, the media by and large could care less. Now throw in the Cubs who look like they have an actual future. The Sox keep stumbling around, getting in their own way, talking about "three year windows," and can't seem to right the ship. That's a dangerous state to be in, in my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 07:23 PM) If people don't want to watch the Sox, then just don't watch them. We're better off without fair-weather fans. Just don't come back when we start winning. Jose: Like them or not, you've got to have them to spin the turnstiles and fork over their money. That's the difference between having a major budget for a major market team and not having the chance to sign a lot of guys that you need. Mark

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 05:37 PM) I really am not surprised that our position players rank that poorly. It is also why I have struggled to see how Sox management can't make moves to enhance the lineup and focus on getting new young talent (and not be worried about contending for the rest of the season). I also think being this bad (even though in some cases, I expect more reversion to the mean by the end of the year) is why we need to move some assets on the pitching side to try and change the position dynamic and that means dealing from our strength's (one of Q / Sale). When it comes to ratings, I'm about as big of a fan as I can get and to be frank, I can't stand to watch this team. I often find myself get so frustrated by their poor fundamentals that I just turn the game off. Chisox: I have no inside knowledge but I think the Sox would very much like to make some moves. The thing is though, you need two to make a deal and frankly they just may not have a lot that anybody else wants (Assuming of course based on an article I read last week I think in the Sun-Times that Sale and Jose were basically "untouchable..." Pitching to me is the single most important (and rare) aspect to the game today so I can see why the Sox would be reluctant to do that. However as you point out, they are between a rock and a hard place, the only way to get good positional talent may force them to have to move pitching. (Which could create more holes...) A decade (or more) of neglecting the farm system and being unwilling to spend money on it is now coming home to roost. Mark

Don't know if anybody has seen these two articles that came out today. I've included the links to them. After reading them the conclusion I come to is that this franchise is in deep, deep trouble. In trouble from a competitive standpoint, in trouble from an attendance standpoint, in trouble from a rating / viewer standpoint and in trouble from a perception / relevance standpoint. (Notice however I didn't say from a financial standpoint...) Overall it appears to me this franchise hasn't been this bad off since the late 80's when they were threatening to move to Florida. Just look where the Sox rank TV-wise in the two graphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/new-numbers...n-not-imminent/ "This isn’t just a bad group of position players, it is arguably one of the worst collections of position players ever assembled." http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-impress...te-sox-offense/ Mark

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 02:38 PM) Reinsdorf was in love with Royals (Kauffman) Stadium for some reason and wanted the same stadium. That's what he got minus fountains. A pretty bland Cell. The Sox were mostly concerned with improving the clubhouses and offices and that's what they got. Except for die hard Sox fans most agree the Cell is a lousy looking ballpark. Great food and drink and all that but lousy ballpark. It was when it first opened but I don't think you can say that now. It's one of the nicer ones around in my mind. Jerry didn't want Kauffman so much as he wanted that additional level for 'sky boxes' (which he was never able to sell) which pushed the upper deck higher. The last row of the original Comiskey Park bleachers was actually closer to home plate than the first row of the upper deck at the new park when it opened. Mark

Just contributing to this discussion, FYI, in the book "Ballpark: The Building of Camden Yards," a rep from the HOK architectural firm was quoted as saying that JR was given the option to build Camden Yards in essence instead of what took place with the new Comiskey Park and turned it down. He was shown the plans but said no. And the rep specifically named him not another member of the organization when talking about that decision. The HOK firm designed the plans for both stadiums. Mark

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) I think shortstop might be in the mix as well as outfielder and starting pitching. Bottom line, this org is never shy about acquiring pitching so if they get the right pitching prospect, I am sure they'd be more then willing to take it. I still think to really get back to 2016, one of Q / Sale needs to go (counter-intuitive, sure, but bottom line, we need some stellar young position talent and those are the guys that can get you multiple impact pieces). You then have more risk on the rotation, however, we have a few more chips their and a much better track record of success. For what it's worth in the Sun-Times today they had a little blurb where it was said the Sox probably won't be picking up Ramirez' 10 million option for next season so shortstop could be in the mix regarding any trades in the next week. Mark

By the numbers: 7th time this year the Sox have lost a game when leading in the 7th inning or later. 52nd time this season they've scored three runs or less in a game. 14th time this year Sox lose a game when allowing three runs or less. Good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose. Hit by Pitcher and catcher interference both loom big and both cross the plate. Mark

QUOTE (harkness @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 10:07 PM) There is likely some dysfunction at the top and not everything its Ventura's fault but this team just plays such dumb/uninspired baseball. Makes you wonder just exactly what they do in spring training. The last 10 days of it were brutal capped off by Charlotte pounding them. They were flat on opening day in Kansas City...they were flatter for the home opener for Minnesota. In my opinion that does fall directly on Ventura and his coaching staff. Mark

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) I got the impression that the article was suggesting a wholesale sea-change as an organization, not a hatchet job on Kenny. The facts illustrated don't lie: drop in attendance, inability to produce a consistent winner and a lack of accountability due to a misguided sense of loyalty. Sure, Kenny sits near the top. But the guy who's really responsible is Jerry Reinsdorf. And if he's anything like the old people in my family, the older they are the more difficult change becomes. Great read, Lip Thanks for the kind words. That is what I was trying to get across...that there needs to be strong consideration given by JR to an organizational change and a change in philosophy. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) First, there is a big difference between trying to win and failing, and putting a product you know isn't good enough on the field. White Sox attendance will rise this year for the first time since 2006. Walk up crowds were terrible in 2012 when they were in first place most of the year. Walk up crowds are pretty much a thing of the past. They really marketed Buehrle vs. Sale and Sale going for a record and sold 4,000 more seats. That was considered huge. I read somewhere where the biggest day of game sale in 2012 was somewhere around 2,000. I think overall the reason for White Sox "walk-up" issues is the fact that this team has never consistently won. By that I mean making the playoffs three years in a row or stringing together something like six years in eight. The Sox were in first place for three months for example in 2012 but in 2011 when they went "all in" they failed miserably and the team was extremely disliked. Ozzie quitting on the team didn't help matters. In 2010 they had a good chance for the post season before falling apart in August. 2009 was yet another losing year. The White Sox are the only one of the original 16 pre expansion (1961) major league franchises to have never made the playoffs in consecutive seasons.And remember expanded playoffs have been around since 1969. It's hard to get a consistent walk up crowd when you can't even string together winning seasons anymore. Having a good season 'out of the blue' as it were, like in 2012, simply doesn't convince fans to come out. (and given what happened the final three weeks that year showed as Paul Konerko said, that they "knew something".) I know this is off the topic thread but I just wanted to pass my opinion along. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) They have made it clear they intend to compete the next 3 years, so no rebuild. I think Oakland has done the rebuild/compete thing with limited success. The problem the White Sox have is shutting it down the 3 or 4 or 5 seasons minimum it would take for a total overhaul will decrease the fanbase. Look at Cleveland. They sold out for years, then got bad for a while, and now even with a few good teams, can't get anywhere near that level. I think the White Sox would be the same way. To get back to 25k a game after a rebuild would take either a lot of luck or several really good years. Dick: This is more of a rhetorical statement / question. Given the attendance issues particularly the past few years would it really matter if they went to a rebuild instead of a reload philosophy and stated that? Does it really matter if instead of averaging 23 thousand they averaged 18 for the time they were rebuilding? (Especially when you factor in possibly the best lease agreement for the stadium in all of MLB as the Tribune explained in great detail a few months ago) Given the massive revenue streams coming in including from web / internet sources, the former commissioner saying MLB is now a nine billion dollar industry (which is NFL territory) I get the strong sense attendance isn't the "make or break" issue anymore. Just my opinion. Mark

One general perception that I'm getting from all this discussion is that is that the Sox organization as a whole have done a poor job of communicating what "the plan" is and how they intend to carry it out. Talk of this three year "window / plan" seems to have come out when Kenny talked with the media in June for example. For so many fans to have different ideas / perceptions / thoughts of what to do, who to blame, who to fire gives me that impression. Say want you will about Epstein but he made it pretty clear to everyone what he was going to do when he took over the Cubs and he stayed with that philosophy despite the backlash from some in the media for example. Sox fans seem to have little to no sense of what the Sox are trying to do, which is why I made the statement in my column that they have lost credibility with their fan base. I don't expect the organization to have gone into minute detail of their plans but a good overall comment could have helped and then more importantly to stayed true to that. If you are going to rebuild...then rebuild. If you are going to reload, then reload. Fine. I don't think you can "rebuild and contend" at the same time which for years has been a philosophy of Kenny and he has stated that but that's simply my opinion. I think a lot of the questions about who is running the show stem from Hahn's public comments and what he did towards purging the major league roster and trying to patiently rebuild the minor league system and then what took place this off season to go along with Kenny's strident comments in June to the media about Hahn and his staff having to clear everything with him. That starts people wondering, even though that may actually be the status quo for a number of major league teams. Looking back Kenny may have wanted to be more tactful in what he said or perhaps not said anything at all. Mark

QUOTE (Greyone @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) At the end of the day it is time for JR to go... and anybody else in his inner circle that wants to as well. Let his son take over, and forge a new path for this team. JR has publicly said many times that when he's gone he recommended to his family that they sell the team. He's also said publicly that they have no interest in running the show when he's gone for what that's worth. Mark

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) Mike Matheny didn't have any experience. There's a theory, don't know if there is any truth to it or not that catchers because they have to look at the game from a different standpoint than other positional players make the best managers. Could be part of the reason Mike is doing so well. Plus I don't think anybody would disagree that the Cardinals are a better organization with a far superior minor league operation. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) But from the periods you are discussing, they have made changes. Laumann does the draft. Hahn is the GM. Marco Paddy was hired. Ventura is a change. They have done exactly what you are calling for except for one guy, and now, all of a sudden, after a winter of giddiness from Sox fans. Soxfest sellouts, everyone bowing to Hahn, failure happens. Guess what? Now all those moves that couldn't have been more praised by media and the fans, they had nothing to do with Rick Hahn. It clearly was Kenny Williams, the guy that did build the only team that has won in about 100 years, now hasn't a clue, and is forcing Hahn to sign players, and has a gun to JR's head telling him he has to approve the payroll increase. That's fine and dandy, but now let's get back to the facts, which aren't so entertaining. JR was told his team had a lot of holes and was a bit away from contending. JR wanted to win right away and told his guys they needed to do what they could to make that happen. They don't have much they can trade away for anything that helps, but they took that, and got Samardzija. They did the other thing they could do and signed several free agents. This wasn't KW running the ship, this was JR. Maybe KW goes to Toronto or somewhere else this offseason, but he and Hahn did what JR ordered. Baseball, not being like other things in life, sometimes doesn't go as planned no matter how much effort and thought you put into it. Dick: Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough and if so that's on me, but the point I was trying to make with the comparison to 1970 was to go outside the organization. I did mention something along those lines but perhaps not strongly enough. There are simply far to many people in the organization from top to bottom with loyalty ties to JR, to many people having worked for the Bulls organization and crossed over or folks who basically owe their careers to JR. They certainly made changes, how could they not in 10 years, but the mind set seems to be the same since many of the individuals have ties to either the White Sox or JR. I simply wish completely outside people would be brought in from successful winning organizations like the Cardinals, Rays, Tigers, Angels for example. That's what I meant when I wrote about "fresh eyes / fresh ideas..." Again if I didn't make that clear I apologize. Mark

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) The main point in all of this that's missed is that Ventura has no previous coaching experience on any level outside of his kids' teams. Who gets hired to a top level job by any sane/employed person that has zero experience in lower levels to show that they actually know what they're doing? Well Kenny hired Robin after asking Konerko to become a player / manager. Konerko turned him down saying it would be to much to try to do. JR then approved Kenny's decision since he has the final say on positions like that. So if blame needs to be assigned, I assume it goes mainly to Kenny for floating those ideas and then JR for continuing his philosophy of not hiring a manager with previous managerial experience at the major league level since Jeff Torborg in 1989. Mark

Dick: Kenny in my view is a big part of the problem but pinning the entire situation on one guy is wrong in my opinion. Do I think the organization would be better off if JR allows him to leave to say Toronto this off season? Absolutely and many of the off season moves have a Kenny feel to them given his M.O. for over a decade. But that won't solve all the problems, especially in drafting and minor league player development. Kenny doesn't have a lot of hands-on stuff in those areas from what I know. Mark

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) Why isn't Leury Garcia in the mix to temporarily fill the hole at SS, if Alexei is not brought back? He's a strong defender, with a canon for an arm, and is having a pretty good year at AAA. L. Garcia in my opinion is another one of those "Four A" players (and the Sox have a bunch of them). Impressive stats in the minor leagues but when they get their chance at the major league level they can't do a thing. Garcia had a chance last year and didn't show much. Sox need to do better than him. Mark

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) So Alexei leads all AL SS in assists. Is that an indication that he plays more than most SS or is it because the fuss about his fielding is slightly overblown ? It's not just the fielding although many of his errors come on really simple plays...to me it's his mental mistakes, his tendency to let his mind drift on the field as well as his inability to work a count usually swinging at the first pitch and generally grounding out to short in key situations with runners in scoring position. Mark

This from Monday's Sun-Times just FYI: "Ventura said the team chose to keep little-used infielder Emilio Bonifacio because he’s used as a pinch hitter and a pinch runner." Mark

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) I always remember the 2nd time we traded Doug Drabek as he was part of our famous white flag trades. I think the White Flag Trade involved Wilson Alvarez, Roberto Hernandez and Danny Darwin to the Giants for six minor league players. The best of the bunch turned out to be Keith Foulke and Bobby Howry. Doug Drabek was actually released at the end of that 1997 season. He was there for the entire year going 12-11 with an ERA close to six. Mark