Lip Man 1

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) The argument about the players not getting it done is valid when thinking about whether Robin is to blame. They need to play better...got it. But what IS on Robin's plate is playing a large part in establishing a winning culture within the organization--developing the mindset of the team, the mental approach to the daily grind, the player's psyche, creating a culture of winning. Look at the organizations that have had that no matter what players are on the field...St. Louis, San Francisco, Texas, usually the Yankees and Red Sox--minus the occasional outliner year. These franchises have winning cultures. The players change, but the results usually produce a winning season. The White Sox have had that...they were one of the top win% teams in the 90's and have had many solid years since, but the winning culture has dissolved into a survival culture--a "what else could go wrong" culture. Whether Robin is solely responsible for taking them there is debatable...whether he's a great baseball guy is not the question...I'm sure he is--we all loved him when he played here...but the fact is, the culture has dissolved into what it is under his leadership and it needs to change. No matter how much talent is put around him, he's not able to tap into players' full potential and ability. Out of the 4 years he's been here...there have only been short periods of time where everyone was pulling on the same end of the rope. The result was the ability to win. However, MOST of the time, we see too much of the hitting being on one day and off another...usually negatively corresponding with the days the pitching is on or off...it's all the evidence of a group of players who are responding as individuals and not as a cohesive unit--TEAM. When this happens in all other sports, the manager is the first to be held accountable--especially after a 4 year sample size of the same thing and a fan base who is beyond frustrated with it all. This part I agree with completely. Well thought out post. Mark

QUOTE (GhostofDickeyKerr @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 10:35 PM) Funny, since Himes was the best GM he ever had and the only one who gave a deuce about developing the minor league system. In my opinion Roland was the best GM JR ever had but your point about the minor league system is valid. Of course having four top picks in a row didn't hurt. And by top picks I mean in the top 10. Mark

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 08:19 PM) Who is loyal??? Is JR loyal??? He allowed his GM to fire Thobodeau. Maybe Hahn/KW are the ones who are loyal. Maybe JR is loyal to Robin becuase he played here. He also allowed Hawk to fire LaRussa (a move he's publicly admitted was wrong). The point is he's made exceptions he allowed Doug Collins to be fired. But those are few and far between...and when was the last time he actually fired a member of his front offices? I'm guessing Larry Himes in September 1990, a guy he personally disliked very much. Mark

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) This is the only place where the word loyal is a four letter word. In most places it's a good thing. Loyalty without accountability be it to a sports team, a religion, a politician a government whatever you want to name is usually not a good thing. Mark

If you look at this logically the conclusions are pretty obvious to me. How many different players from how many different organizations have the Sox brought in over the past 10 years? I think most of us would agree that a lot (maybe most?) of the players have not succeeded. There's been two different managers during that time period and at least on paper two different G.M.'s Yet it seems no matter what they try, no matter who they get it...doesn't...work. There's something about the organization itself, something ingrained in it that basically spells failure. That's the reality. I think its time everyone realizes that until new ownership arrives or JR has a real change of heart and overhauls the front office on the baseball side that nothing substantially is going to change. They may have a good year now and again, but consistent winning simply isn't going to happen. They haven't even had back to back winning seasons now since 2003-2006. Mark

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 11, 2016 -> 05:21 PM) Melky was also batting righty, something I don't think he's done much of the last few days. He saw an opportunity to maybe get bags loaded with a push bunt. Not a bad idea, just bad execution on Melky's part. Not on the manager at all. Are you calling me a bad guy? If Melky was bunting for a hit, Robin apparently thought differently: "He decided to do that on his own," White Sox manager Robin Ventura said. "He's up there sensing the situation, and I think he thought we could get on the board early by getting them over. It's something that you look at either way. But he decided to do on his own." His choice of words makes it sound like to me that he was sacrificing. And no I don't think you're a bad guy, don't even know you, and for that matter you don't know me. Maybe we're both just "meathead" fans? Mark

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 11, 2016 -> 04:24 PM) He's also 2nd in the MLB in HRs and has 40+ RBIs. Literally almost every big hit the Sox have had this season, Frazier has had it. With you as manager, Frazier would probably be hitting 9th with that .215 average. To me, that's not very smart baseball. You sound like a meathead fan. No I wouldn't hit him 9th but that's not the point is it? I also wouldn't have allowed my #3 hitter, currently hitting 8-15 on the home stand to bunt. Knowing that he might do it oh his own now I hope Robin tells him "never again" unless he actually orders it. How many times this year have the Sox sacrificed guys into scoring position and gotten absolutely nothing out of it? You don't give up outs like that in my opinion. The meathead reference also was funny, I've been called a lot worse by better people. Mark

My only comment is this. Regarding the bunt in the first inning. It doesn't matter if Melky did it on his own or Robin called it. Doesn't matter if he was bunting for a hit or to sacrifice. You have a clean up hitter hitting .215!!!! Who strikes out a lot coming up to bat next. This isn't Frank Thomas and his .300 average with a great knowledge of the strike zone is it? Or a Magglio or Carlos Lee...guys who were hitting .280, .290 or over .300 Melky or Robin or whomever should know the clean up hitters capabilities. That's not smart baseball in my opinion. Mark

Rich has had a terrific career in Chicago for many, many years. He's one of the few media guys that I know of that wasn't ripped to shreds by fan bases. He is a huge Sox fan and you could see the pride in his face when he was doing the extending coverage of the Sox winning the 05 World Series. he's what a broadcaster should be but unfortunately you rarely see anymore. Having lost his wife a few years ago he went through a lot and he's had some health issues himself so I hope his retirement is long and fulfilling. The man has earned it. Here's the link to my interview that I did with him a few years ago. He was most gracious in it: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...=11&id=2435 Mark

When was the last time the Sox hit four home runs at home? That was nice to see. Sale shouldn't have started the 7th but they survived it. Mark

When it rains it pours. Now the Sox are going through injuries like Kansas City and Cleveland. We'll see if they have any kind of depth to alleviate things. Mark

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 10, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) I don't think that Hahn has the power to fire RV. JR would likely have to sign off on that one. I'm not sure that the comment is anything other than posturing. Fans want accountability right now, so the Sox have to feed that perception with regard to the manager. Anything regarding a manager hiring / firing has to be signed off on by JR that is a fact. Remember Kenny wanted to fire Ozzie and Greg Walker at various times...JR said no and that was the end of that. Mark

You give the front office points again for trying to correct their mistakes for sure but I'm confused as to what "the plan" now is. Seems kind of 'hit and miss' but that maybe because the options are still really limited. On the flip side though you all so start to wonder about what drove the decision makers to sign these players in the first place since they've been cut already. It's been an interesting year. Mark

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 07:54 PM) I appreciate that sentiment, but that was a lifetime ago. True but I recently saw a stat comparing the last four years plus 57 games of the fifth season of Veeck's second ownership to the same time frame for this ownership group. The numbers are incredibly similar including post season appearances. Mark

QUOTE (Saufley @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) Not inconsistent. If I am not mistaken, Einhorn, when his group purchased the Sox, said the Sox were going to be run more professionally. This franchise now is more of a joke that at the time it was purchased from Bill Veeck. That's complete true. I asked Mike Veeck about some of the things I heard: ML: That group made the first in a long line of faux paux when Eddie Einhorn made a statement the day they bought the club along the lines of ‘we’re going to start running a first class operation.’ Many Sox fans and reportedly your dad were shocked and insulted by that comment. Making it worse was that your dad was right there when it was said. How did your dad and the Veeck family feel about that comment? MV: “We have never equated money with class. Just because we didn’t wear two hundred dollar shirts and three thousand dollar suits didn’t mean we didn’t have manners or didn’t respect other people. The one thing that my family has always done first and foremost was respect the fans of baseball and the game of baseball.” ML: I have heard that supposedly, Eddie Einhorn over the years privately apologized to your dad and tried to mend fences with him to no avail. Is that true? MV: “No Eddie Einhorn never apologized for that remark, Jerry Reinsdorf did, and there is a difference between those two men.” Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 06:16 PM) It is funny that Bill Veeck is revered like he is, while JR is criticized for how little the team has made the playoffs. How many times did the Sox make the playoffs while Veeck owned the team? To be fair that was a much different time. In his first ownership only one team in each league made the playoffs. Veeck had his faults and the idea that he a savior is overblown, many think his deals after 59 put the Sox in such a hole that he had to return in 75 to keep the team from moving to Seattle. And he had some of the richest people in America as his partners yet he refuses to go to them for money and in fact promised them he'd turn a profit for them every year. Met him twice, very nice man but let's just say he could have done a lot better with the franchise had he wanted to. Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) 2001 White Sox with David Wells' memorable comments as well as bad bad, Thomas getting injured in pre-season (Achilles), Jose Canseco later on the team...did later fight back to get over .500 in June/July but coudn't get much past it. 14-29 start. That's right. They and the 91 Brewers are the only two teams to be 15 down at one point yet still have a winning season. Considering half the pitching staff was out with serious injuries or just coming off surgery winning 83 games was amazing. Mark

Gonzalas has pitched well for the Sox. An unexpected positive development. First win by the '5th starter' this season and was badly needed. More wins please. Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) Jimmy Rollins, Jim Thome (who was actually productive based on what we paid him after the subsidy), Omar Vizquel, Tom Seaver, Griffey,Jr., Roberto and Sandy Alomar, Steve Carlton....seems like we're back in the late 80's when we routinely would bring in aging veterans on their very last legs, then again in the mid to late 90's. Morneau seems to fit right in with this scenario. Former MVP's/All-Stars, etc.. Carl Crawford must be next. Seaver won 15 games both seasons with an ERA if I remember of under 3.5 and he pitched a ton of innings. There was nothing broken down about him at all with the Sox. Mark

Certainly didn't expect this. But wasn't it just a few days ago where Robin specifically said he wanted to keep Latos in the rotation and move Gonzalas to the pen? Now all of a sudden he's released. Sounds like somebody above Robin pulled the trigger (obviously) but I wonder if he was consulted or asked to give his opinion on this before it was done. Again you give them points for trying but as to whether or not it actually does any good, we'll have to see. Mark

Given that he won't be available for another month or so, it simply may not matter by then realistically. You give them points for trying but as someone else posted the real question is how did they get into this position in the first place? Mark

QUOTE (whitesoxjr27 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:43 AM) What i got from the article is that the players suck and the front office and RV are fine. Correct me if i am wrong. I know Steve and I can tell you he's wondering about the Shields deal because Hahn is considered an analytics guy and all the numbers are pointing towards Shields declining. He can't figure that one out unless the deal wasn't really Hahn's. Just passing it along. And I saw nothing wrong with the column, the Sox because of their play on the field deserve to be called out. Again just my opinion. The only way the massive desperately needed changes might be made, again I said MIGHT is perhaps through embarrassing them publicly as much as they are doing it themselves. No guarantees of course but as others have pointed out, everyone is frustrated as hell. If nothing else it's nice to me that someone in the media even cares enough about the Sox to write something...anything at this point. Mark

Well I remember this one: May 16, 1978 - With the Sox record a dismal 9-20 and knowing that there was no way he was going to be able to re-sign him, Sox owner Bill Veeck traded slugger Bobby Bonds to the Rangers for Claudell Washington and Rusty Torres. Bonds would only play in 26 games for the Sox, with two home runs and eight RBI’s. Making matters worse was that to get Bonds the previous December, Veeck traded three players including future All Star Brian Downing to get him. Washington would become the target of fan displeasure because of his tendency to take it easy on the field while with the team. One fan made up a banner, hung over the right field wall, which expressed that sentiment “Washington slept here.” Torres’s claim to fame (and this is a great trivia question) was that he was on the field for all of the forfeited games in baseball during the 1970’s. Torres was with the Yankees when the final game in Washington was forfeited when fans rushed the field in 1971, he was in Cleveland for the nickel beer night fiasco in 1974 and was with the Sox during the “Disco Demolition” forfeit in 1979. Then you have what happened in June 2007 where they went 5-17. What I'd like to know, perhaps someone with research ability can somehow find this, is if ever there's been a team go from 13 over to one under in exactly 30 days, which is what the Sox just did - May 9 through June 8. Don't know if that's ever happened before. Mark

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 12:42 AM) I never understood this fan concocted macho part of baseball. It would look really bad on the Sox part. The Yankees in their hey day would often take a cue from Casey Stengel who'd often tell them, "now don't be afraid to start something, we'll all be right behind you" if they were in a slump. Two of the most vicious real baseball fights took place at Comiskey Park between the Yankees and the Sox in June 56' and June 57' Mark

Don't know if anybody saw the "official" verified San Diego Padres twitter account tonight. The post may already be deleted but at 7:11 someone wrote out "No Tradebacks" on it. Another web site had the screen shot of it. Royals last week and now the Padres dishing it to the Sox. Just a shame. Mark